Brake fade?
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MrNoodly
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Brake less, downshift more.
And: http://automotivethinker.com/brakes-2/rotors-blank-vs-cross-drilled-vs-slotted-and-warping/
And: http://automotivethinker.com/brakes-2/rotors-blank-vs-cross-drilled-vs-slotted-and-warping/
highdesertranger
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the four most common causes of brake fade,
1. incorrect brake lining material. always use OEM replacement pads and shoes.
2. overloaded vehicle
3. incorrect driving habits
4. a problem with the brake system
I always recommend correcting the issue causing the fade, instead of trying to put a band aid on it.
highdesertranger
1. incorrect brake lining material. always use OEM replacement pads and shoes.
2. overloaded vehicle
3. incorrect driving habits
4. a problem with the brake system
I always recommend correcting the issue causing the fade, instead of trying to put a band aid on it.
highdesertranger
The most common cause is heat. Air in the lines, old fluid, rubber line expansion, glazed pads.
Weight is multiplied by gravity so fade can happen to an empty vehicle given a steep enough grade.
I would highly suggest not using OEM brake pads on a camper conversion as theyre often organic or ceramic and not sufficient for the weight and elevations you will see.
If you can afford it go with quality (EBC, brembo, Wilwood) pads and rotors with braided lines and high temp fluid.
Weight is multiplied by gravity so fade can happen to an empty vehicle given a steep enough grade.
I would highly suggest not using OEM brake pads on a camper conversion as theyre often organic or ceramic and not sufficient for the weight and elevations you will see.
If you can afford it go with quality (EBC, brembo, Wilwood) pads and rotors with braided lines and high temp fluid.
highdesertranger
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if you are heating up your brakes you are driving to fast for conditions.
"Air in the lines, old fluid, rubber line expansion, glazed pads"
these are all maintenance issues. fix the problem. don't dance around it.
"Weight is multiplied by gravity so fade can happen to an empty vehicle given a steep enough grade"
only if you are driving to fast, slow down
my truck is pushing 10k plus what I tow, I have never had an issue with OEM brakes and I am in the mountain west.
once while descending a rather steep grade from 11000ft to 5000 feet I was putting along. my buddy was in a Toyota 4x4 behind me. he thought I was going to slow so he sped past me. about a mile later I started smell brakes within a quarter mile we saw him pulled over on the side of the road, smoke coming out from all his brakes. we stopped I told him wait until they cooled down and don't drive so fast. we continued to the bottom of the grade he caught up about an hour later. I outweighed him 3 to 1.
moral of the story, sometimes if you slow down you will get there sooner and safer. some truth in the tortoise and the hare.
highdesertranger
"Air in the lines, old fluid, rubber line expansion, glazed pads"
these are all maintenance issues. fix the problem. don't dance around it.
"Weight is multiplied by gravity so fade can happen to an empty vehicle given a steep enough grade"
only if you are driving to fast, slow down
my truck is pushing 10k plus what I tow, I have never had an issue with OEM brakes and I am in the mountain west.
once while descending a rather steep grade from 11000ft to 5000 feet I was putting along. my buddy was in a Toyota 4x4 behind me. he thought I was going to slow so he sped past me. about a mile later I started smell brakes within a quarter mile we saw him pulled over on the side of the road, smoke coming out from all his brakes. we stopped I told him wait until they cooled down and don't drive so fast. we continued to the bottom of the grade he caught up about an hour later. I outweighed him 3 to 1.
moral of the story, sometimes if you slow down you will get there sooner and safer. some truth in the tortoise and the hare.
highdesertranger
OP said they were 'old brakes'....for all we know they had 100,000 miles on them and it was time for new ones anyway.
Yes, downshifting and engine compression braking should be used, as well as reducing speed....duh.
But maybe the existing brakes were worn out or nearly worn out.
Yes, downshifting and engine compression braking should be used, as well as reducing speed....duh.
But maybe the existing brakes were worn out or nearly worn out.
Yeah theyre 8 years old and toasted pads. I never had an issue with fade...just a tongue in check title due to putting slotted rotors on a camper. Lol
I have however road raced 2 wheels for 12 years and 8 championship wins and a sponsorship from EBC and Motul. As well as lead mech on an AMA supersport team and 10 years making a living working on brakes. We can talk theory after you ride a 3" wide tire down from 195mph sideways a few times.
I have however road raced 2 wheels for 12 years and 8 championship wins and a sponsorship from EBC and Motul. As well as lead mech on an AMA supersport team and 10 years making a living working on brakes. We can talk theory after you ride a 3" wide tire down from 195mph sideways a few times.
I kinda figured something like that....
Although, brake fade is a very real problem in some situations.
Although, brake fade is a very real problem in some situations.
highdesertranger
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well all righty then. highdesertranger
One problem I had several years ago was with the then new synthetic brake fluid that even though it was recommended by several "high performance" brake vendors it actually had a lower boiling point and over heated under heavy braking causing brake fade. I also have purchased braided "high performance" rubber hoses that expanded and caused brake fade. OEM (Original Equipment Manufactured) factory parts are always better made in my opinion. I would highly recommend checking recommended fluid and its complete replacement at intervals for harsh or heavy duty use especially on a used new to you vehicle. Most of fulltime vehicles carry close to or over the weight they should and therefore have brake maintenance and checks much more often in most cases in my opinion.
Brembo MC's for bikes run a big knob over to the clutch side so you can adjust the lever throughout a race due to fade. Multi-million dollar teams with the best of the best still use these because fade happens.
In racing applications theres a saying: if youre getting fade youre not going fast enough
theres a big difference between duralast and wilwood brake parts for instance. Cars arent made with the best parts no matter what, sans very few ultra luxury or supercars. Theres a cost benefit analyses.
Replacing spark plugs with oem just because the system is made to work together is one thing. But replacing a whole ignition with an MSD system is not a step backward.
In racing applications theres a saying: if youre getting fade youre not going fast enough
theres a big difference between duralast and wilwood brake parts for instance. Cars arent made with the best parts no matter what, sans very few ultra luxury or supercars. Theres a cost benefit analyses.
Replacing spark plugs with oem just because the system is made to work together is one thing. But replacing a whole ignition with an MSD system is not a step backward.
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Were they braided or rubber? Braided line works like a mofo. It has to be real stuff not some slip-over decorative metal weave. If they were the real deal you certainly made a premature determination blaming them.
Ive never had them or needed them on the street on any vehicle but on a bike on the track theres a very serious improvement. It wont fix it all, you need pads and high BP fluid but theres no controversy in their superiority.
I don't think most people know what the quality of the parts they are buying is and if the parts they are buying are meant for the applications they will use them for. Many people that buy brake fluid that don't understand high boiling points are good, they only read the add that says "lasts longer" or "does not absorb water preventing rust". Most racers know about heating up ceramic pads to get maximum performance and accept the fact drilled and slotted rotors have less surface and wear out quickly but try explaining that to someone barely able to afford a quality rotor you are gonna send it off and have it drilled and cut so it will work better but will not last long enough for them to afford to buy replacements. Maybe for them slowing down or pulling off to let things cool off will work better for them. I have hoped competition between manufactures would encourage their engineers to improve the vehicles and mass production keep the costs down but it seems in many cases they lower quality standards and increase profit by manufacturing parts in countries with cheap labor markets. Replacement of whole vehicles is more common than repair due to technical improvements. If racing is proving ground for the next generation street vehicle and most modern race cars can be programed for adjustment of suspension and braking on each corner of the course and monitored or adjusted during the race from the pit if needed as an example, then it won't be long before some of the self driving cars will soon be programmable to do just this for pre programmed trips to save fuel and increase performance. I guess a few touches on the screen will get you down the hill while you remember how you had to slow down and wait once. Going fast is great till you can not afford it and my wife will be happy to explain that to you just like she did me! LOL! I'll just go a little slower and stick with junkyard parts for my old 1978 Jeep J10 and 1987 Suburban and use what I save to buy more old high octane gasoline due to my poor miles per gallon till the parts run out. Sorry for the rant and long post but I'm getting old and you never know which will be your last post! P.S. Your rotors look real pretty.
DannyB1954
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Flush out the old brake fluid. If it has moisture in it, when hot it can boil. If that happens the steam or vapor is compressible, so your pedal can go to the floor before you build pressure in the lines. Use what is recommended in your owners manual. It is a good idea to flush out your brake lines about every 3 years, or 30,000 miles. https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-tests/is-brake-flushing-necessary.htm
highdesertranger
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"But,I did put a rear end in my recliner today"
was it a full floater or a semi floater?
was it a locker or a posi?
sure hope it wasn't a peg leg.
highdesertranger
was it a full floater or a semi floater?
was it a locker or a posi?
sure hope it wasn't a peg leg.
highdesertranger
Check those back brakes... If they aren't doing their fair share it throws all the burden up front and you get fade. If your van saw any service in snow/salt areas, or just sat for a long time, the adjusters and wheel cylinders can rust and freeze up. Also, carefully pull back the rubber dust boot from the pin and see if there is any brake fluid collecting inside. Any visible moisture and they need to be replaced. They're like $5 each for AC-Delco on Amazon. Pedal height and effective feel usually has more to do with the back brakes and master cylinder. I replace the master cylinder at the same time as the wheel cylinders.
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