Automatic vs. manual equalization

[MrNoodly]

My Morningstar MPPT solar charge controller automatically runs an equalization cycle every 28 days. But I can also make it equalize manually whenever I choose. 

What are the pros and cons of one method over the other?

If it matters, I have two SunExtender 12V AGM batteries.

 

[caretaker]

mr. noodley I've read that you don't want to EQ. AGMs. EQing batts makes heat plus pressure, not good for AGMs. or at least thats what I've read.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Leaving aside the AGM aspect of it - and I agree you shouldn't eq them - there are other issues.

A battery is supposed to be fully charged when you equalize it, and Sterwake has documented that "automatic" chargers or controllers are almost always wrong about that.

And you're supposed to unhook all loads during equalization because the eq voltage is so high it can damage sensitive equipment.

So, no, I wouldn't want it equtilizing my battery if I wasn't around to supervise it.

 

[John61CT]

+1 meaning manual, appropriate gear on shore power, with measurement & controls to be able to closely follow the mfg recommendations

 

[SternWake]

Id not eq any agm. Even lifeline/ concorde/sunextenders. Until there was obvious capacity loss in regular use.

The procedure should not be initiated until an extended absorption stage is complete.

Id prefer to do it after a deep discharge and high amperage got the battery to 14.4 @ no less than 20 amps per 100ah of capacity.

Google lifeline agm pdf technical manual. Same as sunextenders

 

[John61CT]

Lifeline is apparently now the **only** quality AGM vendor that still recommends equalizing at all.

Per Maine Sail's testing this fact does not help in PSOC abuse situations, only Firefly was good for that.

But apparently many prefer Lifeline specifically because they **can** be equalized without harm.

 

[MrNoodly]

Lifeline is apparently now the **only** quality AGM vendor that still recommends equalizing at all.

The Sun Xtender tech manual says:

"Conditioning should be done when the battery is showing symptoms of capacity loss or when the float voltages of series-connected batteries show excessive variation. These conditions can be caused by letting the battery dwell too long in a low state of charge condition, or by repetitive undercharging.

"NOTE: Some chargers use the term Equalizing Charge instead of Conditioning Charge. An Equalizing Charge is generally applied to flooded lead acid batteries that are susceptible to acid stratification. However, Equalizing Charge may be used to provide a Conditioning Charge for Sun Xtender® batteries as described below."

Then it goes on to describe the method, which is essentially 15.5V for 12V batteries, every three weeks for about 4 hours. And the frequency should be fine tuned to avoid under- or over charging. "In most cases the optimum frequency will be between 2 and 4 weeks." According to the Morningstar manual, that's pretty much what it does on the AMG setting, except it's 15.1V every 28 days.

So, anyway, to answer my own original question (should've read the manual) it looks like there's no need to equalize/condition more often than monthly unless my batteries are in sad shape, which they aren't.

 

[John61CT]

Interesting, they're manufactured by same company makes Lifeline.

 

[caretaker]

can anybody tell me why rolls are so much diff. when they need to be EQed? the man doesn't say anything about being fully charged, just only if cells read diff., sulfated, cap. loss. believe me i abused ours and still got 6 yrs. before noticeable cap. loss, and replaced after 9 yrs.

 

[John61CT]

You talking Rolls AGM or FLA?

Is your question, how do they achieve such excellent quality?

I don't understand the part about the need for conditioning? The fact that you can condition them is a plus in SOC abuse situations.

Remember, ratings assume the bank is totalled, that you replace the bank when capacity drops by 20%; you might have hit that in the first couple years, and believe me they would have lasted **much** longer without the abuse.

IMO you're better off sticking to Sam's Club GC2s if you're unable to treat the bank right, get the extra longevity you're paying for. Obviously someone selling a much more expensive bank won't tell you that.

Maybe the GC2s would have died a lot quicker and you came out even. Probably not though, Surrettes are pretty darn pricey most places.

 

[BradKW]

Personally, I turned the auto equalize feature off on my Morningstar because I felt like I wanted to be present when doing that, and to be sure that batteries were fully charged prior to start of equalize.

 

[caretaker]

john, FLA, and man can they take abuse, when we first got them the guy who set up our system installed them then ran so i had no info on them,( this was 10 yrs. ago and at that time i had no internet with which to get info, didn't get net until 3 yrs. later) so i did the wrong things, but the thing i love about them is their guarantee %100 for the 1st 3 yrs. i had to replace 3 in 2 yrs. no Qs asked. when i leave here they are the batts. I'm going to get, only I'm going to get AGMs %100 for the 1st 2 yrs then pro rated for the next 5 yrs. at least i think its 5. i know its the best in the business. but to my Q why are they so much diff. then everyone else?

 

[John61CT]

Lots of excellent mfg out there, but at least for FLAs, Rolls/Surrette is recognized top-notch.

Same reasons as with the auto marque.

Why do you think you need to go to AGM?

 

[SternWake]

The Sunextender PDF was revised in early February this year, does not look like the Lifeline PDF has been revised since 2014.


The conditioning information you quoted is new, to me at least.  I previously read the lifeline PDF and sunextender PDF side by side, and the content was exactly the same.  No longer true.

Since these sunextenders are marketed towards the renewable energy crowd they are finding ways to increase the chance they they will not have to warranty batteries.  Most all battery manufacturer recommendations are all about minimizing the possibility of warranty returns of half brained User X, not so much to promote ultimate longevity of full brained user Y.

I like that they say the 15.5v conditioning charge can be applied more often, for shorter periods.  Do note this is with a battery temperature of 77f.  Adjust accordingly.

On my Northstar AGM group 27, I will sometimes hold absorption voltage not just to 0.45 amps at which point it can be considered full, but hold it until amps taper to near zero.  this can take 2 to 4 more hours.

Also, The high amp recharge has always waken up this thin plate pure lead TPPL AGM.  If I do both, high amp recharge it from 50% or below, then hold absorption voltage until amps taper to zero, It is like the battery snorted 3 lines of coke and drank a carafe of coffee.

I've not explored higher voltage conditioning with this agm, as the high amp recharge, and the holding of ABSV until amps taper to zero have been effective.

Also Odyssey AGM, also TPPL, has a different conditioning procedure basically quickly draining battery to 10.0v and hitting it with a very high amperage until amps taper to near zero, then repeat.

I've not done the 10.0v thing on my Northstar TPPL, only to about 11.4v under 6 amps of load iirc.

http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEY_Battery_Reconditioning_Charge_Procedure.pdf

Also  when I do back off to float voltage when amps at 14.7v taper to 0.4, in about 12 more hours amps will taper to 0.0X at 13.6, and when I bump voltage back upto 14.7v amps quickly taper back to 0.0x.

With the AGM and usage of my AGM the "x" is increasing, sometimes into the number before it.
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Rolls surrette flooded deep cycle batteries are pretty much the accepted top dog lead acid battery manufacturer.  Thick plates and their plate past formulation and electrolyte lead ratio are likely the reasons why.  One pays a premium for them.

Rolls surrette's user manual might be the best reading about lead acid  batteries on the web

http://www.rollsbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/Rolls_Battery_Manual.pdf

 

[caretaker]

john, FLAs. will need EQing and they will outgas and i don't want to have to do that in a van, plus with AGMs i will be able to put them where i want, and be able to build over top of them without having to worry about having to get at them every 30 days to do routine maint. and if they go bad all i will have to do is go to any rolls dealer and swap it out, plus with 2 yrs. %100 gives me an extra year to learn for free. heck i might even try to kill em just to see what it takes.

 

[SternWake]

I am fairly sure AGMS with Rolls Surrette stickers, are the same as Full River AGM's, which are made in China.
Good batteries despite COI.

Not sure they are upto the legendary status of rolls surrette flooded batteries though.

My opinion is Lifeline/Concorde make the best Deep cycle AGM.

I am cycling a Northstar AGM which is impressing me greatly so far, but I treat it well. worked hard but recharged right.

The firefly Oasis/ carbon foam agm is reported to resist capacity decline from partial state of charge cycling better than any other lead acid battery.

group31/ 115AH/12v is the only option, and 482$

If PSOC resistance is proved to be true, when I need to replace mine, I will spend that.

 

[John61CT]

Yes, ​Lifeline, Northstar and Odyssey are famous as top notch AGM.

I'm sure anything Rolls labels is great, and so is deserved brand loyalty, but for me if their price/AH is actually higher than the above, I'd stick to the top actual manufacturers.

And again, for a PSOC situation (sure you can't fix that?), Firefly Oasis is the way to go, if not cheap FLA GC2s.

 

[caretaker]

SW/ JOHN, i did not know that, but thats why I'm asking Qs, i had just assumed they were made in canada like the rest of them, so thanks for the heads up.

 

[MrNoodly]

Why do you think you need to go to AGM?

I didn't want to deal with servicing them, and I wanted to mount them inside the van and not need to worry about venting. And because I could afford them.