auto start generators

[Motrukdriver]

Is anyone using auto start on their generators?  When I drove the big truck I had an APU (auxiliary power unit ) on board and it was soooo nice.  When my house battery bank fell to a certain voltage the generator would crank up and top them off and then turn off.  I believe this will be the type of generator I'll get.  I've seen a few name brand generators (Honda, Yamaha, etc) that come with an auto start feature but they are sure pricey.  I'm hoping this can also be added later to one does not have it.  Haven't researched it enough yet.

 

[jimindenver]

I know there are RV's with auto start generators but never a portable since they generally are not also the charger but they do power it when plugged in and running. Some do have remote start, one of my big Champions did. The sweet think is not only did I not have to go out and pull the cord, I did not have to plug in and unplug the load each time either.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I have often wondered why the manufacturers don't make an all-in-one APU unit for RVs and vans....it would be smaller, cheaper, and fill three needs:

DC and AC power generation

Heating

Cooling

I can imagine that they could be marketed in 3 sizes, one for vans and Class B's, a medium size for Class C and small Class A, and then a large unit for the bigger Class A's and the Super Class C's that are out now. You could add a fuel tank and they would be usable on travel trailers and 5th wheels.

In a perfect world, they would be available in gasoline, diesel, and propane versions...or hey...how about a tri-fuel version?

Yeah the do-it-all utility on the truck was great...of course, when it DID quit working it took a knowledgeable mechanic with a laptop to figure things out sometimes!

 

[jonsun]

the only thing I know of is an electric start generator with an AIMS inverter. The inverter kicks the generator on/off based on your battery voltage setpoints.

 

[John61CT]

> all-in-one APU unit for RVs and vans

A quality engineered unit, given low market volumes, would cost a lot more than most of our vans.

And smaller vehicles would not have a single spot to install it, except maybe off a hitch hangar.

Perhaps a more modular system, build it up over time, easy wiring interconnects, good tech support, a few certified installer/dealers/repair shops in strategic locations. . .

 

[tx2sturgis]

All of that is true, but if a nice Class B at $100,000 had a single APU at say, $5000, to replace a $3000 Onan generator, a $1500 RV furnace, and a $1200 roof air AC unit, then it would be cost effective, assuming mass production, mass market adoption, and a good servicing dealer network.

As years went by, the cost of competing units would come down, as they did in the transportation industry.

I can see Honda or Champion, someone with some engineering and marketing expertise, building an all-in-one APU that could easily be mounted inboard on the frame, replacing the standard genset.

Its not much of a stretch to imagine a complete portable APU that you could mount on a hitch rack and take anywhere on just about any vehicle.

Kickstarter, anyone?

 

[ZoNiE]

I have often wondered why the manufacturers don't make an all-in-one APU unit for RVs and vans....it would be smaller, cheaper, and fill three needs:

DC and AC power generation

Heating

Cooling

I can imagine that they could be marketed in 3 sizes, one for vans and Class B's, a medium size for Class C and small Class A, and then a large unit for the bigger Class A's and the Super Class C's that are out now. You could add a fuel tank and they would be usable on travel trailers and 5th wheels.

In a perfect world, they would be available in gasoline, diesel, and propane versions...or hey...how about a tri-fuel version?

Yeah the do-it-all utility on the truck was great...of course, when it DID quit working it took a knowledgeable mechanic with a laptop to figure things out sometimes!

Funny you mention it. We're working on this. One problem is with the size and weight. An all in one unit puts all the weight in one place, as opposed to distribution around the RV. This isn't an issue in a road tractor. My current design has it in the space of an refrigerator (or less). Another problem is how to use the waste heat. Naturally a heat exchanger is the way to go, and either use an air transfer or liquid transfer and in floor heating or baseboard style heating (like an Alde unit) but then this adds complexity and cost, and the weight, plus RV technicians now need to learn a new skill many of them just cannot handle. Once you move the cooling to a mechanically operated compressor (car AC type compressor) then the AC power need is much, much less but then you need to be able to turn that compressor with AC power when on shore power, so then the gen head needs to be a motor as well... These individual components all exist, but their cost is high. Our first unit will be for high end RV's just due to cost and weight.

For an auto start capability now, look at the Midnight Solar "Kid" MPPT charger. The latest version has autostart that can be connected to any genset that has electric start.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Zonie, are you in that industry?

Thermoking (the 'Cadillac' of transport refrigeration) APU's are the ones I am familiar with, but there are many competing all-in-one aftermarket units made for retrofit in trucks. If lightweight and mass-produced units could be well-designed and engineered, I could see a huge pent-up demand in the RV market, and ESPECIALLY with boondockers and high-end off-road capable RVs.

Thermoking APU's, and the associated Espar heating unit, designed for the transportation industry work about 8 to 10 hours a day sometimes for 10 or 15 year tractor life-cycles, and yes, they need service and repair now and then. But no more trouble than a separate RV furnace, roof air unit, and on board generator would need.

The electrical controls are mostly consolidated, and servicing a frame mount unit is a LOT easier than digging around in cabinets or climbing up on the roof!

Your thoughts?

 

[ZoNiE]

I'm in automation and controls, but we are working on this because the industry only offers crap. only one generator mfg exists now (onan) and they make junk. Roof airs are repackaged window units. We are converting fuel to mechanical to 110v to mechanical cooling. I'm looking to disrupt the industry, license or sell my patents and retire.

The tractor APU's are noisy and I'm also working on quieting them down.

 

[blars]

Many camping spots have "quiet hours" when you can't run a generator. Most people would not like a noisy generator staring when they are sleeping. So auto-start is a problem in RVs.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Many camping spots have "quiet  hours" when you can't run a generator.   Most people would not like a noisy generator staring when they are sleeping.  So auto-start is a problem in RVs.

With electronic controls it would be easy to preset 'quiet hours' so that the genset wont come on during that time.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I'm in automation and controls, but we are working on this because the industry only offers crap. only one generator mfg exists now (onan) and they make junk. Roof airs are repackaged window units. We are converting fuel to mechanical to 110v to mechanical cooling. I'm looking to disrupt the industry, license or sell my patents and retire.

The tractor APU's are noisy and I'm also working on quieting them down.

Yeah I don't like the indirect method of arriving at cold air either. A simple automotive A/C compressor mounted on a small gas or diesel engine would eliminate inefficiencies and complexity.

BTW, that type of APU is noisy because they are normally mounted in a metal box or cabinet, with a simple muffler, on the frame of the truck, and they are rated for commercial noise levels, which is a lot higher than anything in the RV or home market. Some can be 'plumbed' into the existing vertical exhaust stack, reducing noise and ground level exhaust gasses. If the unit was mounted in an insulated cabinet, with a nice quiet muffler, it could be very quiet.

And if a sharp person with business connections took this idea and ran with it, I can see a wide-open market out there.

But you are right about the 'legacy' systems...scrapping everything the RV industry knows might be hard to do....at first!

 

[Motrukdriver]

I saw this while looking for a Honda generator.  Never mind the Australian website since that is where I am right now (3 months left before coming home).  The technology is here already albeit a little pricey.  I can see this as a great boondocking application where "quite hours" don't apply.  I'm sure there is a bypass option to disable the auto-start for when they do apply.  That $6200 is AUD so in US dollars it is about $4650 and I imagine it would be even cheaper if you purchased it here.  Still a tad pricey.  https://www.generatorstore.com.au/honda eu70is - 2 wire auto start

 

[Motrukdriver]

Thermoking APU's, and the associated  Espar heating unit, designed for the transportation industry work about 8 to 10 hours a day sometimes for 10 or 15 year tractor life-cycles, and yes, they need service and repair now and then. But no more trouble than a separate RV furnace, roof air unit, and on board generator would need.

Propex makes an Espar/Webasto type heater unit for vehicles designed to run on propane.  They are a UK outfit but have distributors in the US and Canada.   http://www.propexheatsource.com/

 

[John61CT]

Very efficient they are too. HS2211 can mount in or outside.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Propex makes an Espar/Webasto type heater unit for vehicles designed to run on propane.  They are a UK outfit but have distributors in the US and Canada.   http://www.propexheatsource.com/

Yes, and some high-end Class B motorhomes come with them, or as an option, here in the US.

I like the idea, as does John, but the price is a roadblock for many of us on a budget. Including me!

 

[speedhighway46]

I have a Carrier APU on my Peterbilt Motorhome. Very convenient; runs all night on a gallon of fuel. Provides cooling, heating, and 4000 watts of electricity. Can be programmed to start/stop/run based on numerous commands and conditions. But, it heavy and makes a fair amount of noise. When I’m parked with other trucks I run it and am not concerned. But when in a campground I am very sensitive to folks around me.

It would be nearly impossible to install this device on anything smaller than a class six vehicle.

But, it works great and keeps me comfortable, especially in winter. Sips fuel directly from my diesel tanks; recirculates the coolant through my main motor to keep it warm also. This unit has abt 5500 hours on it currently.

FYI for those who might be interested.

 

[tx2sturgis]

  Still a tad pricey. 

Pricey AND heavy.

I would assume that unit is aimed at smaller off-grid but stationary homes...7KVA (~5600W) is a fairly LARGE generator.

Most of us wont be inclined to be lifting a 250lb genset, although a large toyhauler rig with a ramp door might be able to accommodate the unit since it has wheels.

But for that kind of money, I can pull a rope starter!

 

[Motrukdriver]

When I build my rig I'll be more inclined to use one of those Olympian Wave type heaters and see if somehow I can use that auto-start feature on a much smaller (price and weight) generator. I gotta save my pennies too but it is nice to dream sometimes...

 

[Motrukdriver]

I have a Carrier APU on my Peterbilt Motorhome. Very convenient; runs all night on a gallon of fuel. Provides cooling, heating, and 4000 watts of electricity. Can be programmed to start/stop/run based on numerous commands and conditions. But, it heavy and makes a fair amount of noise. When I’m parked with other trucks I run it and am not concerned. But when in a campground I am very sensitive to folks around me.

I had the Thermo King unit coupled with the Espar under bunk heater on my Prostar when I drove.  Absolutely spoiled me. Had 3 house batteries running a 2000 watt inverter powering my mini-fridge, microwave, Mr. Coffee, electric skillet, toaster and a whole host of other things.  Usually at night if I wasn't running the AC it would only fire up maybe 2 or 3 times to top the batteries off.  Life was grand but I'd never recommend diving a truck for a living.  Takes a special kind of crazy...