As Homeless Find Refuge in Forests, ‘Anger Is Palpable’ in Nearby Towns

[Van Lady]

From The New York Times:

As Homeless Find Refuge in Forests, ‘Anger Is Palpable’ in Nearby Towns

A growing homeless population on public lands has brought with it increases in emergency calls, drug overdoses, illegal fires and trash, which have put nearby residents on edge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/22/u...-is-palpable-in-nearby-towns.html?mwrsm=Email

 

[dragonflyinthesky]

I was scouting an area, I won't disclose where other than to say Flagstaff area. It was unfortunately inhabited by campsites I wouldn't care to mess with, even if I was a Leo. I suspect the sites talked about in the article are close to big towns as opposed to being a few miles down difficultly to access roads.
I hate to read stories like this of course. When new laws and restrictions are enacted , the neat careful law abiding people get caught up in the melee. I hope I can continue this lifestyle for years to come.

By the way, I remember when I was in grade school, one or two bad kids could be the cause of punishment for the rest of the good kids in class. I don't think things have changed at all.

Dragonfly

 

[kayell]

Well that was an incredibly balanced and unbiased article. Glad they did some in depth reporting there. </sarcasm>

 

[DannyB1954]

Reminds me of Hobo camps of the 30's. There are still tin cans laying about from those. Not everyone living in a vehicle has an honest income, or even wants one. The general public will always judge the many by the few. If someone gets ripped off and there was a strange van camped nearby, guess who gets the blame? And the next van that shows up is automatically suspect of anything that happens. Better hope somebody's kid doesn't run away from home while you are there. Means and opportunity has more weight than someone's word.

Recently on this forum there was a person who wanted to know how to make easy money. They didn't want to reduce their spending, and they said they hated working. For over 20 pages people gave them advice. All of it was discounted and rejected. I think they were looking for instructions on how to run some sort of scam. They may have gotten it too, (in PM's). Another group that were known travelers and never trusted were the gypsies.

 

[GotSmart]

That is why I kept everything spotless, and my clothes clean.

When I was told by a ranger I was on State Land in AZ and had to move, I was able to talk my way into an open ended stay, as I was rebuilding my motor.  I had my oil and fluids in jugs.  I was polite and cooperative.  

Unlike the site down the road that was a huge pile of trash with barking dogs.

 

[Canine]

There will always be parasites who refuse to make their own way.Big difference in these folks and the hobos of the dust bowl days.The hobos were looking for jobs.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Just so.  Hobos were looking for work.  Tramps would only work when forced to.  Bums would never work at all.

 

[SoulRaven]

I read the article and I am now much more apprehensive about trying to do any long term camping in the BLMs or forests now. I would be concerned of the type of people that could be lurking and up to no good and at the same time worried that law enforcement would be harassing me also.

And it doesn't matter how good I would be as far as keeping in line and cleaning up, I would still be judged by the authorities as a vagrant as well. They see everyone in a negative knee-jerk way now.

The authorities can't understand why there are starting to be more people becoming homeless and in trouble. As a serious question, could a portion of these people be some of the ones that strike out to find a simpler and carefree way of life and simply fail because of lack of money and poor planning? And then have nowhere to go back to because they have quit their jobs and sold every thing they owned including their house and or given up their apt or place to stay in society?

I am not trying to be sarcastic here but I have often wondered how many have tried the carefree life and come up short for one reason or another and found themselves in trouble with no money or place to stay? I do wonder about them and hope that it is not wide spread.

I myself have made somewhat start out attempts to cut the cord from society and go live in a vehicle or whatever to be happier just to see what it would be like and if I could succeed. I failed in all those attempts. But........I didn't cut my ties or burn my bridges. I was testing the waters. It wasn't easy for me and articles like the one linked in this thread makes me even more cautious.

 

[SoulRaven]

I suspect the sites talked about in the article are close to big towns as opposed to being a few miles down difficultly to access roads. 

According to the article..... "And as officers deal with more emergency calls, drug overdoses, illegal fires and trash piles deep in the woods"
So many of them are going back a lot further than the fringes. They are trying not to be discovered so they go back miles in the woods and mountains.

Just be cautious of your surroundings and maybe travel with others you know.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I read the article and I am now much more apprehensive about trying to do any long term camping in the BLMs or forests now. I would be concerned of the type of people that could be lurking and up to no good and at the same time worried that law enforcement would be harassing me also.

And it doesn't matter how good I would be as far as keeping in line and cleaning up, I would still be judged by the authorities as a vagrant as well. They see everyone in a negative knee-jerk way now.

Don't let the hype scare you away.  Certainly not all law enforcement feels this way about people.  And keeping yourself and your vehicle clean goes a long way.  Plus no one needs to know you're living in a van and dropping out of society.  Lots of people will frown on someone that lives in their van, this is true........ but very few will frown on someone on a six month cross country vacation. in fact most will be envious.  Let people (law enforcement) think you're a tourist when the situation calls for it if it makes you more comfortable.  

I've camped all over in State forests, town forests, BLM land, etc......running into shady people is rare.  If you end up in a place with a bunch of them it's as simple as driving on down the road to another spot. I camped around a bunch of homeless when I was in Hawaii and even they were pretty pleasant for the most part.  I'd buy fruit off one of them every day and he'd watch my stuff for me when I wasn't there.  Well worth the $5 a day in that instance and I had fresh fruit!

 

[kayell]

Thank you Every Road Leads Home. I'd like to hear more from experienced full or part timers on how prevalent encountering the type of people described in the article is in real life. Of so, did you feel in danger? What did you do? How often has this happened to you?

Also, have you ever encountered the resentment and anger of townspeople directed at you?

 

[eDJ_]

In my view,  the parasites will want to live near a town or stealth in it as that puts them closer to the money supply.   Most of us can stay some distance out of town on BLM land in relative safety.   But those of us who
would camp "clean" in the Boondocks should watch for those "hiding out" in there who may be dealing drugs,
burglarizing,  robbing,  etc who may stay further out of town in these places too.

We've had threads in the past showing how to set up intrusion alarms using Dollar Tree window tampering
buzzers connected with clear monofiliment fishing line.   Cheap and effective. 

Most Van dwellers I've spoken with don't think of themselves as "Homeless" any more than they see themselves as "Hoboes".  (and certainly not Tramps or Bums)

Any LEO with a bit of experience should be able to tell that a person in a rig with Solar Panels,  refrigeration, and  the amenities of a home in a owner built RV is not "homeless".   If he/she were shoving a grocery shopping cart loaded with everything they can hoard......now that's homeless.    Those with Cell's to get
WIFI for their laptops would certainly not be homeless.   But then the LEO in question may see the Van dweller as having some things of value opposed to the homeless person with the grocery cart and calculate that they could make some money out of harassing them. 

We've also discussed having camouflage netting to cover one's rig if they are going to be boondocking for an extended period of time.

Think of it as a Van dwellers Privacy screen.

 

[waldenbound]

My plan is telling law enforcement officers that "I'm camping." I have my Coleman stove, camp chair, dressed in my REI convertible hiking pants, dry-fit shirt, Buff, all things a normal camper would use. Keeping a spotlessly clean camp and the vehicle washed, good tips too.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Thank you Every Road Leads Home. I'd like to hear more from experienced full or part timers on how prevalent encountering the type of people described in the article is in real life. Of so, did you feel in danger? What did you do? How often has this happened to you?

Also, have you ever encountered the resentment and anger of townspeople directed at you?

Hi,  I've only part timed.....my longest stretch was about 4 months.  But I've done dozens of 4 to 8 week trips sometimes back to back, just stopping back home for a few days.  I'd estimate i've done about 600-800 days of vehicle camping and have a pretty good mix of very rural areas, large urban areas and cities.

I've only felt uncomfortable a few times.......and both times it was at rest areas just outside major cities.  Never felt uncomfortable in any state, town, or BLM lands.  Never encountered anything like this article describes in real life.  Unless you're trying to camp in some inner cities I don't think you'd find this anywhere either.  

99.99% of the time traveling and camping in my vehicle is nothing less than absolutely pleasant.  Sketchy people and situations are so rare it's never even an active thought or concern of mine.  Living on wheels makes it incredibly easy to not be a part of anywhere you're not comfortable.

 

[akrvbob]

Remember the old saying, "If it bleeds, it leads" The media has two reasons to be in business 1) make money and 2) save the world. Stories like this do both in spades!!

It's sensationalism pure and simple. Making any kind of a decision based on yellow journalism like this would be unwise in my opinion.
Bob

 

[AltTransBikes]

Not an isolated article, I've been seeing this more and more this year coming from different locations from Arizona to Colorado


Homeless Are Flocking to America's Forests, But It's Damaging the Land
http://www.vice.com/read/homeless-are-flocking-to-americas-forests-but-its-damaging-the-land

Homeless camps make way into national forests
http://fox21news.com/2016/06/17/homeless-camps-make-their-way-into-national-forests/

Long-term campers in San Juan Mountains spur campground closures
http://www.cortezjournal.com/article/20160619/NEWS01/160619859

Mini RV Boondock towns are sprouting up throughout Verde Valley
http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=70274

Camping crisis: Some western Boulder County sites under siege
http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-...risis-some-western-boulder-county-sites-under

5 surprising facts about homeless camps
http://www.csindy.com/IndyBlog/archives/2016/06/30/5-surprising-facts-about-homeless-camps

 

[kayell]

Remember the old saying, "If it bleeds, it leads" The media has two reasons to be in business 1) make money and 2) save the world. Stories like this do both in spades!!

It's sensationalism pure and simple. Making any kind of a decision based on yellow journalism like this would be unwise in my opinion.
Bob

That's what I suspect. Just nice to hear from people with boots on the ground. Either way. I doubt very much I'd give up on van dwelling and traveling full time unless this is actually a very prevalent problem as reported by real people. And I'm not scared of homeless people per se. I don't like being around destructive and dangerous people. There's a difference.

Not an isolated article, I've been seeing this more and more this year coming from different locations from Arizona to Colorado

Sorry, but a list of links to more media doesn't help, since they copy each others stories. I'm interested in what YOU have seen and experienced.

 

[AltTransBikes]

Not an isolated article, I've been seeing this more and more this year coming from different locations from Arizona to Colorado

Sorry, but a list of links to more media doesn't help, since they copy each others stories. I'm interested in what YOU have seen and experienced.

Perhaps in your opinion it doesn't help but for others who's to say, some might find substance in the frequency of the subject being reported on, not only for the seeming increase in the numbers of vagrants residing in the forests but also for insight in the way forest managers and LEOs might be viewing the problem and increased scrutiny for anyone who is attempting to full time in these areas. Besides, if you read the links you'll see some are local reporting from small town news outlets which hardly qualify as big bad 'media'.

 

[Almost There]

Outside of Cottonwood last March/April I did have the occasion to be camped near to some people who were technically homeless.

One was a woman, who after talking to her for a while, definitely appeared to have some mental issues. She had quit her job in CA, packed her car up and was trying to find someplace to get work. She was definitely down on her luck but managing quite well given her problems.

The other was a vet who had been forced out of housing, lost his vehicle in a car accident and was driving a rather iffy car (mechanically wise) and sleeping in the back seat. While I was there he managed to obtain employment in Sedona and had started looking for a place to live. His biggest problem was the ability to save enough to pay first/last and the deposits for utilities more than anything else. Living without even a cooler to keep food in meant buying food daily. He was cooking his meat on a grill he'd found by digging a small dugout in the ground, surrounding it with rocks to support the grill and using barbecue briquets. I happily gifted him the little propane barbecue I was carrying around and not using. He already had the propane tank to go with it and planned on adding a small stove with his first paycheck.

Both were struggling but were intent on managing their situations. Yes, they both had to have cold baths out in the open with blankets/tarps hung out to give them privacy but then I was using a solar shower and the nearest bush/trees to do the same....   I had hot water, they didn't.

I WAS camped in an area that was about as close to town as you could get. I'd chosen it because it WAS close to town. I was doing a lot of sightseeing in the area and didn't want to have to deal with the rough roads for more than I had to.

Anytime this past winter I camped further off the beaten path there was no problem whatsoever with neighbors who were doing anything different than what I was - full time living and travelling in my home on wheels.

I'm sure that there are problems out there but since I have a home on wheels I can simply pick up and go if I feel uncomfortable with my neighbors.

I've seen more problems with drugs and alcohol abuse when I lived in urban areas than I'll ever see out in the forest/desert.

And any problems I do encounter in the future sure won't deter me from living my life to the fullest extent of my desires.

 

[eoewan]

I would think that anyone with an alcohol or drug problem would stay closer to their source. They would be camping closer to towns and cities. Wouldn't the trick then be to set up a camp farther away from the town/city?

This does worry me a bit as I'll be with a small child and my challenged daughter. Their safety and comfort always comes first.