Advice on a high-miles Grumman Kurbmaster?

[KarlH]

I just went to look at a late-80s Kurbmaster step van with 320,000 miles on the odometer. Everything above the chassis was in surprisingly good shape, and the body was actually nicer than the newer vans I've looked at so far: It's made of a heavier gauge of aluminum with more reinforcing gussets, and it's close to 8' wide inside with more than 7' of headroom. There were no rattles - not even around the sliding door. It has sturdy tubular-steel brackets to hold the partition, and the partition itself can be removed.

The price is favorable and I'm thinking of buying it for the body and accepting that the engine (a 6.2 diesel) will probably need to be swapped at some point.

The lights, tires, wipers, heat, defogger, brakes and parking brake are all OK. The only blemishes I could find are a burned-out dome light, a tiny crack in the right windshield pane, and a non-working washer on that side.

The history of the vehicle is that it was used by a small-town police department as a mobile command-post. They did a very professional job when they installed extra insulation and lighting, and level of rust on the underbody suggests that it was stored inside. It was sold at auction three years ago and used as a shed until earlier this year.

The seller seems honest, and he helped me take an engine oil sample that I sent to the lab at the local Cat dealer for analysis. The engine took about five seconds of cranking to start, and at one point the synchromesh didn't engage properly when down-shifting to first gear. Otherwise it ran perfectly and it sounded good.

The chassis is a P30 with some surface rust and flaking. (I'll post some images later.)

Does anyone have a sense of what it would cost in the near term to keep something like this running?

Thanks!

 

[LoupGarou]

Contact an insurance company giving them the VIN to find out if you can get coverage.

 

[highdesertranger]

yeah insurance is the big thing. here's some info on the drive train,

is it a 4 speed with granny low? if it is it's a SM-465 no synchros on first or reverse. you can down shift into first while moving but it is strictly old school clutch and throttle manipulation. takes practice. unless you have a real heavy load or are on a hill or need the torque multiple of 1st gear you don't use 1st gear you start out in 2nd.

the engine if you ever change it I would put another 6.2/6.5 in it. that thing is probably approaching 20mpg empty. a lot of people talk smack on that engine but they are just haters. they are not the most powerful or have the most torque but they are great engines or else that engine would not have been in production from 1981 until present. that's right they are still in production you can buy a brand new(not rebuilt) in the crate 6.5. that's 38 years worth of engines out there which makes them one of the most affordable diesels out there. they are the engine that are in military Humvees. so don't pay attention to the naysayers.

if you get that Kurbmaster let us know I will give you a few pointers on the engine and drive train.

highdesertranger

 

[KarlH]

Thanks for the advice

I'll see what my insurer says. Maybe I can go with a liability-only policy.

HDR, I don't know if the transmission is a SM-465, but first was marked with a letter instead of a number, so it could very well be a granny.

The seller actually has a newer 6.2 that he seemed willing (but not really eager) to sell. The catch is that I don't have a hoist, and I haven't checked what a shop here would charge to do it. The one I've worked with doesn't have a tall enough bay.

Here are some pics of the undercarriage and inside the wheel wells: https://photos.app.goo.gl/gPF6UGTxXw83Dmku5

(I can't post photos directly into a message here until I upload them to another image host.)

 

[highdesertranger]

how bad is that rust in spots it looks pretty bad? is the actual frame metal flaking off?

good news is that's a 14 bolt FF(Full Floating) rear axle. to bad you didn't include a pic of he trans. if the shifter had a "L" instead of a "1" then it is indeed a SM-465. great rear axle and great trans mission both are super heavy duty.

however you won't break any land speed records and of course there is no overdrive.

highdesertranger

 

[KarlH]

It's pretty bad by sunbelt standards, but about average for an older vehicle in Minnesota. It's the surface of the metal flaking due to road salt. I pushed on some of the worst areas with my finger, and it didn't feel soft underneath.

Some people put heavy grease on those areas, and other people apply a plastic coating.

 

[KarlH]

good news is that's a 14 bolt FF(Full Floating) rear axle. to bad you didn't include a pic of he trans.  if the shifter had a "L" instead of a "1" then it is indeed a SM-465.  great rear axle and great trans mission both are super heavy duty.

Your hunch was right, there is an "L". Thanks

how bad is that rust in spots it looks pretty bad?  is the actual frame metal flaking off?

When I said that I thought it was stored inside, I meant that a 1989 truck stored outside in Minnesota wouldn't make it to 319k unless someone welded steel bracing to the frame.

...

There's another van with a 4BT that I took a look at today. The odometer read <60k, but might not be accurate. It started nicely and seemed less tepid when driving. And for all the comments about noise, it wasn't too bad at low speeds.

The body isn't as nice as the Kurbmaster, the chassis isn't a lot better, and the guy wants almost twice as much. But the engine is probably worth almost as much.