A van? Not what I first expected, but... OK!

[Jack]

I'm brand new to nomad living.  (See my post in the Intros.)  I started out wanting a tiny house.  Then I found Bob's YouTube channel and that opened up my world!  I switched to wanting a Class B.  Upon further (and endless) video watching, I've come to realize that, at least right now, van life is exactly what I need.  How did I learn that?  The "comfort vs freedom" video.  Priceless.  So, unless a different vehicle comes along that I can't pass up (like that interesting ambulance conversion), I'm going with a van.

My Goal:  Full time van living.  Plenty of travel and following the weather.  (I'm a spring and fall kind of guy.)  I also want to be able to go places you can't drive an RV or tow a tiny house.  I'm very much a rural/country kind of guy and have no desire to explore big cities.  I prefer the cold to the heat, though.  I'm a polar bear.  My only concern about living in a van in winter is getting stuck in the snow.  

Dilemma:  It's going to be a bit until I can buy a van.  I'm debt free but coming from apartment living.  I don't own a house I can sell, or even own a vehicle right now.  (City transport.)  Having no cash on hand is something I can deal with.  The dream is strong enough to make it happen.  Hopefully, by summer 2019 (1 year.)

Suggestions Please:  So, van family, what are some things I can do in the meantime to prepare even before I have a vehicle?  Are there things I should buy (and store) as I go along until I'm ready to travel?  (Or should I put every cent towards getting the vehicle first, then renovating and fitting it out?)  If so, what kind of things should I look for and how will I recognize a good deal when I see it?  What kinds of things should I be thinking about NOW instead of later?  (Developing an income stream(s) is already in the works.)  Here's where I get to ask my favorite question:  "What would you do differently, if you knew THEN what you know NOW?"

I'm all ears, folks.  Don't hold back.  I don't need anything sugar coated.  Every reply will be read, considered, noted, and appreciated!

 

[becida]

If you have a year save your money & do homework.

 

[Jack]

Thanks Robb.  That's exactly what I'm doing.  In addition, I'm working on creating several streams of income to support myself.  Joining this forum is part of my research. I'm definitely learning a lot just reading old threads.

 

[highdesertranger]

first off start getting rid of stuff you don't need. tis is easier said then done.

second don't buy anything that doesn't transfer over to your van life.

plan, plan, plan

what would I do differently? left sooner.

highdesertranger

 

[mimaef]

There are several van models that are 4wd or awd. I'd suggest looking into the various ones to see which one works best for you and your budget. Some of them are quite old (30 years!), but are great vans that will still get you where you need to go if you're looking for the cheaper end. The newer 4wd are out of my personal price range, so I tend to look older haha. I've seen some of the older ones, with tire chains, make it through west coast mountains snow weather.

What are your needs? Do you want to be able to stand up in the van or is not being able to okay? If you want to stand, are you willing to get a topper installed (will be a big added cost) or are you just going to look for ones with more head room?

Start investigating how you're going to:
Heat and cool the van
Get clean
Use a toilet

Think about:
How much bed space you need.
Will you be cooking? If so, with what?
Refrigeration?
What kind of storage do you need?
Off-grid solar or tied to the grid?
If off-grid How much solar do you need? Colder weather = less sunlight = less juice for the batteries during the day.

There's a lot of planning that needs to go into such a tiny space by the simple fact that it is tiny and you have to micromanage every inch and weights in it. You can go as simple as you'd like or as complicated. Take this time right now to do that research, see other people's builds, and figure out your own needs while you save. I learned a LOT about what works and what doesn't for my tastes simply by watching other people's build tour videos.

 

[Firtree]

Don’t buy anything!

Watch or rewatch Bob and Suanne’s videos on essential list for vehicle living. It shows you the first things you should pick out of your current stash of stuff. Start checking yard sales, thrift stores , friends, relatives stuff, but only for the items in the video and for prices mentioned. Keep thinking how can I do this cheaper? You can.

Ask questions on the forums — Suanne Mentioned wool blankets, clothes but I have some silk or fleece or thermal stuff, is that good enough till I find good prices on ?  Likely the answer is yes. Use, wearout and keep looking.

Don’t buy a new phone or cell plan yet, unless some screaming buy comes along in the next 12 months.

Consider blocking out on the floor the size of the living interior of a van. Sleep, sit in it. If you get an inexpensive or used cook stove start cooking on it to learn if your pans will work or what to look for in used pots and pans. do this safely and with a window cracked. Practice with just a 6 or 7” pot. Can you make it work for a pot and skillet?

Keep watching videos. I like Bob’s about keeping clean and the one on getting water. Better cheaper. You can always start practicing 1 gallon showers or spray/wipe cleaning you in your own bathroom. If something doesn’t work well you have the luxury now to hop in the shower to fix. Learn to use less shampoo or soap to still be clean but not need so much water to rinse. Practice the 5 gal bucket potty. Or the 5 gallon clothes washer with new plunger.

Practice going to a new library or McDonald’s, Starbucks using their WiFi to surfing. Do you have to be inside to get signal or not. Won’t be the same at every location but you are just learning and practicing.  

Think about coffee if you drink. Do you use milk or cream? How will you keep good? I have looked into bulk liquid half and half you don’t have to refrig. Kind of like the ones you get at a diner. Or maybe you can drink tea with out creamer and that might be a better choice. - -Costco has in the deli area a really neat coffee machine that grinds the beans each cup, uses 195 degree hot water and you have a choice of 3 different coffees with added cream and/or sugar for $1. Flavored coffee are more. You don’t need a Costco card to use the deli. Saw a guy yesterday use his insulated mug instead of the offered paper cup. It fit the machine perfectly and held the 18-20 oz coffee. Said the setup kept the coffee hot for hours. I need to study that option more with the mugs I have.

Live out of a cooler you have for a week. How to pack, how often you need ice, how to keep food dry. Do you really want the hassle of a cooler and ice? How do I eat then?

Maybe your library has a copy of Waldon on Wheels. Not about life on the road but cheap van living.

Don’t spend money

 

[GypsyJan]

Firtree has great advice. Start preparing, cooking and eating as you plan to in the van. For the van-sized outline you will practice in, use milk crates stacked on their sides as cubbies to represent the storage you will have in the van. This will help you decide what items to take with you. Make a cleaning kit, using the size of products the future-you will need. I like a spray bottles of vinegar water and alcohol water. Paper towels will work if you are able to burn things....same with paper plates. If in a no-burn mode, use microfibre cloth instead and launder as needed and either disposable foam plates if garbage disposal is handy or wash and reuse a regular plate. Find which items in your wardrobe wear and launder best. Configure layers for cooler weather. Compile the bed linens and get used to sleeping that way now. These practices will save you from culture shock and ease you into the transition when the time comes. Embrace the new you and best of luck with the adventure.

 

[Almost There]

Please keep in mind that different people live differently in a van. Some people live/cook/eat etc a simple life very different from what they lived in a S&B home because they think it's necessary. Others figure out how to eat/live etc the same way as they did at home before they became a nomad.

I knew after a previous stint at being a nomad that to make it work for me I needed to be able to live the same way mostly but mobile instead of stationary. I built the inside of the van out to accommodate that need. I consider the van to be like a studio apartment.

Are some things different - well yea! I cook on a single burner for one. But then I was used to doing that when canoe tripping/backpacking. One learns to switch things around on the stove and use residual heat to finish cooking things while something else is heating up.

That said, I have a kitchen counter bigger than all but the most luxurious RVs. I have a chair that reclines so that I can put my feet up. I have a toilet that doesn't use chemicals. I have both a fridge and a deep freezer. I have a comfortable bed to sleep in. The only two things I could wish for are an inside shower and an oven. My oven is portable and goes on the 2 burner outdoor propane stove I carry. I have a privacy tent and a shower unit and also depend on showers at laundromats/truck stops etc. Hey, at least I don't have to clean the shower! I don't want either of them bad enough to change the vehicle I'm living in.

I use the same bedding I used at the apartment, same for the pots, pans and cooking utensils. I use a fold up table for dining and office space instead of the kitchen table in the apartment. I gave away all those 'office' clothes and pared down the wardrobe but I have more than enough clothing to last from one laundry day to the next...it's just more suited to my casual lifestyle.

What I'm trying to say is that with enough planning and effort there doesn't have to be drastic changes in your day to day method of living. If 14 pairs of shoes are absolutely necessary, make plans to accommodate them...j/k...no one needs that many pairs of shoes!...

You have a year, don't buy anything yet until you've got the vehicle and have done at least a few camping trips in it. Keep watching videos and looking at conversion efforts, making notes of what you like and what you don't think you'd like. Ask questions! Oh, and try to make it to the RTR where you can see in real life how others are doing this lifestyle.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Great advice from everyone I must say.
Words of wisdom.
Should be a sticky fyi for those contemplating, curious, and or planning to get started.

 

[amwbox]

What to do in the meantime? Piles of research. Particularly 12 volt DC electrics. Batteries. Solar Panels. This will be the thing with the steepest learning curve that you will find yourself with the most questions about, and the thing requiring the most specialized knowledge. Maybe try it out first...see if you can rent a van for a couple days. Sleep in it. Visualize. REALLY ASK YOURSELF, in a frank, no-BS sort of way...if you are really comfortable with that sort of thing on an ongoing basis.  How are you with solitude? How are you in confined spaces? How are you sleeping without the security of walls, wondering when "the knock" will come?

Lots of people try this. Not many last long. Think hard, research hard, do some self-appraisal.

 

[Almost There]

  How are you with solitude? How are you in confined spaces? How are you sleeping without the security of walls, wondering when "the knock" will come?

Lots of people try this. Not many last long. Think hard, research hard, do some self-appraisal.

One has as much solitude or as little as they set themselves up to have. Once you make friends, unless you're a surly curmudgeon that no one wants to be around, you can pick and choose how much time you spend with them.

If you feel you are confined then you're spending too much time indoors. One of the big bonus's with nomadic living is that one ISN"T confined.

I have four walls and a ceiling...I'm not sleeping in a bivouac on the ground...  

I've had one knock in 17 years and it wasn't someone coming to toss me out of my spot. Another vehicle had pulled in to the rest area with an engine fire. Someone knocked to warn me I would want to move. While it was a little scary at the moment, it's not like it caused trauma , just a bit of hard breathing and an extra hour on the road when I'd rather have been sleeping.  If you're constantly worrying about 'when the knock will come' you're not choosing your sleeping spaces well IMO.

Lots of people fail to try this because they listen to the fears of others.

Yes, plan well, but don't allow fear to rule your life.

 

[WanderingCanuck]

Try going a week without electricity. In a house you can do this by flipping the main breaker off. In an apartment, I'm not sure... as I've never lived in one. It might take discipline if you can't actually turn it off. This isn't to say that your future nomadic life won't include electricity, but most people take it for granted and don't think about alternative ways to do things.

Same thing for running water. Bathe from a bucket for a while. You'll learn to truly appreciate hot, running water.

If feasible, go on a week long backcountry camping trip. Living out of a well-appointed van should seem like a luxury in comparison.

 

[becida]

What I found to be the hardest part of getting out & on the road was getting rid of my stuff.  Took longer than I expected too.

 

[Jack]

Phenomenal replies! I wish I didn't have to rush out the door to go to work right now! But, since I do (and I'll respond more later), I'll say this:

1. I do great with solitude. It's my lifestyle now. I'm wallpaper.

2. Getting rid of stuff? This is NOT a problem for me. I have no attachments to things. I'll have some clothes, a dozen books, my laptop, toiletries, and essentials. I've sold literally everything I owned twice in my life to move on and start over. Kept only a suitcase of clothes, a few books, and toiletries.

3. I research everything to death. I could research heart surgery and, by the time I was done researching it, I could perform it. I'm a very studious person who loves to write. (Hoping to begin making an income writing before I leave.)

4. The nomad life resonates with me. I have always, always, always valued my time over money. I've quit great paying jobs in the past because I didn't respect my boss and was constantly being taken advantage of. I've been blue collar and white collar. I just hate collars, period! But I'm not too good to clean toilets and pick up trash when necessary, either. I'm no better than anyone else. I'm just stubborn and determined about what I want -- and that's to NOT be tied down to the demands of job, especially when they don't care two hoots about me other than how much work they can get out of me.

Thanks everyone! I'll be back!

 

[Jack]

I've been thinking about the replies here all day and I'm seriously impressed... and grateful.  Why?

• You folks are the experts and would know the answer to pretty much every question.  
• While you endorse the lifestyle, your advice to newcomers is to first try to talk them out of it (so to speak) by asking them questions that 99% of new people very likely haven't thought about.  You don't romanticize it like folks on social media in order to gain subscribers and make an income (of which I do not fault them, by the way).  This means you care.  Experience may make you credible, but caring makes you trustworthy.

With that in mind, the only way to get the best advice and make the most of it is to be transparent and honest.  In that light, I really only have one reservation about living as a nomad:  

Less stuff?  I couldn't care less.  For the last 12 years I've simplified my life into a 445 sq. ft. apartment and only own what I use on a monthly basis.  Everything I would bring with me would fit into one large suitcase.  I don't even need to stop buying stuff now because I only buy necessities as it is.  

Solitude?  Absolutely not an issue.  I'm alone much of the time now as it is and I prefer it.  I intend to attend worship at local churches every week so that scratches that itch for me!  I don't own a TV, Stereo, DVDs, CDs, or even digital music and entertainment.  I don't do Netflix or anything else.  I like peace and quiet and am an AVID reader!  So, I don't even need a TV or music to fill the silence.

As for research and making the most of the time I have before taking off, I intend to study (and try to get hands on experience) with everything from fixing simple electrical issues, learning as much about mechanical repairs as possible, as well as solar energy.  There's a wealth of knowledge out there from folks like you and I intend to make the most of it so I can pass it on when the time comes.  A friend of mine is a carpet cleaner with a 1998 Chevy Express 2500.  I already learned how to change the oil in that and he'll show me anything else I want to know!

So, what's my hesitation?  The toilet situation!  If there are two things in this world I'm addicted to and appreciate even more than coffee and sweet tea, it's air-conditioning and flushing toilets!  This is where I need help, folks.  I'm not pooping in a bucket and using saw dust.  I like keeping my living space clean and smelling nice.  The smell alone negates this option.  So, whatever vehicle I end up in my two non-negotiable luxuries, are A/C and a proper (to me) toilet!  The best I've been able to find so far is the one in Bob's video called Living in a Roadtrek Class B.  That woman had a Nature's Head Composting Toilet.  Yup, a $1,000 toilet!  So, unless folks have other recommendations, I'm putting aside a separate savings just for that!  (In fact, based on what I know now, my dream vehicle would be that 17' Roadtrek Class B, kitted out like the woman in that video has hers.)

 

[becida]

So, what's my hesitation?  The toilet situation!  If there are two things in this world I'm addicted to and appreciate even more than coffee and sweet tea, it's air-conditioning and flushing toilets!  This is where I need help, folks.  I'm not pooping in a bucket and using saw dust.  I like keeping my living space clean and smelling nice.  The smell alone negates this option.  So, whatever vehicle I end up in my two non-negotiable luxuries, are A/C and a proper (to me) toilet!  The best I've been able to find so far is the one in Bob's video called Living in a Roadtrek Class B.  That woman had a Nature's Head Composting Toilet.  Yup, a $1,000 toilet!  So, unless folks have other recommendations, I'm putting aside a separate savings just for that!  (In fact, based on what I know now, my dream vehicle would be that 17' Roadtrek Class B, kitted out like the woman in that video has hers.)

I lived in a 19' class B Pleasure-way (a '97 Dodge B3500, widebody) with my bride for over a year. It has a flush toilet, black and grey holding tanks, a rooftop air conditioner & a generator that will run the air conditioner.  Our living room was outside when ever possible. That worked for us.

Before that I was in a van of some sort & I used one of these, It's a 2.5 gal flush toilet, it works well, I NEVER had an accident with it & it's easy to carry when full.  
(https://www.walmart.com/ip/Camco-Portable-Toilet-with-RV-Toilet-Treatment-DROP-INS/29764375)
This design is available with different labels all over the place, I included the walmart URL because  it was easy to find.

I tried an oval one with a different configuration and one night someone had an accident with it in a van, after that I went back to this style. Iv'e used this style for years with no problems.

After I met my bride & moved into her Pleasure-Way I put my porta potty in storage.

For AC in a regular van I'd look at a window unit & one of those inverter generators to run it. Build it into a cabinet & put a ventilated opening to the outside.  Or get one of the stand up AC units with the hose to carry the heat away.  I just looked at a thread on the forum where a guy built one of the hose type into his van, the hose goes thru a hole in the floor.

 

[Almost There]

In addition to the Natures' Head that you've seen already, take a look at the C-Head. It's another manufacturer of separating toilets.

I chose the C-head not only for it's lower price but because it also uses 1 gallon water jugs for liquid collection rather than a pricey proprietary tank. You'll always want to have a spare on board...the one is use usually follows Murphy's law and becomes full just about the middle of the night or in an inconvenient place.... I simply replace the jug when it gets too gross for even me to tolerate...

The things that I found that smelled with the porta toilets and the RV toilets was the chemicals and when you  had to drain the tanks.

A separating toilet works by, yup, separating the liquid from the solids. The minute you do that you eliminate the smell - entirely. It's the combination that stinks.

I've used the C-Head full-time for just shy of 3 years and will tell you that there is no smell. Okay, no smell from the toilet...that's not to say that right after I've used the toilet, the van may not be the freshest but it's no different than the bathroom when I lived in an apartment...open the door, turn on the fan, use some spray....  

There's only been once when the toilet was annoying odorous - I had had digestive upsets for almost 2 weeks and instead of being solid waste is was more sloppy. After about 7 miles on rough gravel road the stirring up of the waste produced an odor. It went away once the tank settled down.

Not going to lie to you, dumping any toilet is not the most pleasant task on earth. We are so comfortable (and spoiled) on the north american continent, used to just flushing the toilet and bingo...all gone! Along with thousands of gallons of water a year. The porta potties need to be dumped weekly and use chemicals. The RV toilets need to be dumped anywhere from weekly to bi-weekly depending on use and use chemicals. Both have to be dumped in a sani-dump. Costs vary from free (kinda rare)  up to $15.00. Add this cost to the cost of the chemicals and I figure the C-Head paid for itself within the first year. The C-head liquid jug can be dumped in any washroom, the solids can be bagged and disposed of or taken out in the bush and a large cat-hole dug - depending on where you're located. No cost involved. I get 4 to 6 days out of the jug and one month out of the solids tank.

Can't help you at all on the A/C! I live without it by moving with the weather as much as possible. The few times that it's been kinda hot in the van, I simply use a small fan for a few hours. I haven't even fixed the dash A/C because I would so seldom use it that it doesn't make it cost effective to fix the thing.

 

[MikesGonenoMAD]

If you have a year save your money & do homework.

So True! Don't Buy Anything! Save get your Van throw a sleeping bag and take a few weekend trips. Three years ago I found and fell in Love with Nomad Living my Dad had Alzheimer's and wasn't doing well and I thought I would be able to go in a year. Fortunately Dad is still home with me and I don't know when I'll leave but over that time I was buying so much CRAP that I don't need! Save your money buy smart why do you think the Give-away pile is so big at RTR all kinds of stuff folks had to have but didn't Peace & Blessings
mikesgonenoMAD

 

[becida]

 The porta potties need to be dumped weekly and use chemicals. The RV toilets need to be dumped anywhere from weekly to bi-weekly depending on use and use chemicals. 

Neither the porta potty or the RV toilet needs chemicals, there were a couple of times in the summer that I did use the blue stuff in the porta potty.

In years of use with RV toilets & holding tanks I've never needed chemicals.  Just need to dump it... when she was alone my wife went 2 weeks between dumps in the Pleasure-Way

I could use any toilet to dump the 2.5 gal porta potty tank and it was about once a week..

TMI I'm sure...way more than anyone really wants to know about this subject

 

[Jack]

Thanks again! That pretty much puts my toilet fears to rest then. Whatever the situation, I'm sure I'll have AC. Anything over 72° or 73° and I'm roasting! I have a feeling I'm likely to be a 70° weather chaser!

I won't be buying anything, especially because I don't know what kind of vehicle I'll be getting yet. I'm having fun researching and dreaming about different kinds of vans though! I see all kinds about every three blocks I go! Some folks would find it frustrating to see them and not have one, but it encourages me and keeps me (and the dream) going!

I'm good at saving money so I won't be buying anything that isn't a bare necessity. I am, however, keeping my eyes open for good, free, items I can reclaim. When it comes time to kit out my van, if I don't use something, I'll try to find another van lifer to give it to.