News, Many older Americans are living a desperate, nomadic life

Chuck1 · Feb 4, 2018

They live in RVs and drive from one low-wage job to another

In her powerful new book, “Nomadland,” award-winning journalist Jessica Bruder reveals the dark, depressing and sometimes physically painful life of a tribe of men and women in their 50s and 60s who are — as the subtitle says — “surviving America in the twenty-first century.” Not quite homeless, they are “houseless,” living in secondhand RVs, trailers and vans and driving from one location to another to pick up seasonal low-wage jobs, if they can get them, with little or no benefits.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/m...re-living-a-desperate-nomadic-life-2017-11-06

John61CT · Feb 4, 2018

Jess in past threads

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=10317

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=26664

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=26726&page=2

Plenty of others.

Most recently, her documentary
https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=28821

cyndi · Feb 4, 2018

In this video people answer that burning question, "Are you happy, being a vehicle dweller?"

lenny flank · Feb 4, 2018

I'll repeat what I said in the other thread, since it applies to this book as well:

Van-dwellers and RVers are not a monolithic group, but have a wide range of people, all the way from flat-out homeless people who live in their cars, to well-off permanent vacationers in million-dollar Class A motorhomes.

All of these "poor RVers are victims of our **** economy" stories simply encourage everyone everywhere to lump us all together as "homeless people", which provokes resentment and laws against us.

It doesn't help us any.

waldenbound · Feb 4, 2018

Yeah-up Miss Jessica, mah life is jess so terribul. I cain't hardly stand it no mo. I'mma gonna load up the salt pork and fried dough and head to Californy. Load up the jalopy Tom, we're a headin' to Californy!

NoMadYesHappy · Feb 4, 2018

Interesting.

In all of my preparation towards retirement in some sort of mobile living arrangement, I have never thought of myself as desperate. I am actually looking forward to my new life. I feel like this lifestyle is exactly what I have been laboring towards for all of my working life. In spite of my previous life, I am not completely naive about what living like a nomad means. I've lived in my car before...weeks at a time, when I was young and single. I've backpacked for weeks in the Sierras. I've camped all over. I can't wait to finally feel that freedom and reduction of stress from pulling off of the rat race track and onto the human life, wide open world! Inhale .... exhale .... ahhhhhhhh!

Having said the above, I know that there are many that land in this lifestyle by somewhat less than a personal choice, far too often with limited resources and surrounded by unsafe conditions. I've had my own involvement with this community, and long, sometimes heated, conversations about the topic with those that are outside looking in. The level of apathy, the tenacious grip on personal opinions that are far too often built on false (or complete lack of) information is, to my mind, staggering and sad beyond my ability to convey in words. The cost of status quo is as large, maybe larger, than providing for guaranteed basic life incomes for those in need. I am a proponent for change.

In respect of the guidelines of this forum, I don't want to cross a line into politics ... most of you already know them anyway ... but I did want to express my passion for the topic and my resistance to the stereotyping of folks who live different than traditional, main stream America.

Peace.

Chuck1 · Feb 4, 2018

lenny flank said:
All of these "poor RVers are victims of our **** economy" stories simply encourage everyone everywhere to lump us all together as "homeless people", which provokes resentment and laws against us.

It doesn't help us any.

The person who wrote that was very biased, the book author seems fair.

Expect more draconian laws

cyndi · Feb 4, 2018

In Jessica's defense she was writing about a specific part of the mobile population.

I'm not sure why that's so hard to grasp.

She is a part of the CRVL community. And she did spend a generous amount of time with the people who are written about in her book. She also spent a fair amount of time fulltiming.

waldenbound · Feb 4, 2018

Ok, leaving the sarcastic humor off. Let's say someone IS forced to live as a nomad against what they had hoped for their life. What good does throwing a "poor me" pity party do? It's ok to be mad at first. Feelings are ok, get mad, scream, cry, pound on the backrest of the seat, but then start getting smart and resourceful. Start reading this site, network, look for workamping jobs. You may start to like it.

Look at our own Bob. He started living in a box van in Alaska! He openly admits crying himself to sleep his first night. But, he got resourceful, made some changes, moved down south for warmer weather, and the rest is history.

closeanuf · Feb 4, 2018

I read the book and enjoyed it. I thought she was fair to the people she wrote about and she seemed to like them and was respectful to them. I hope she writes another book; I'll buy it. I'm 69 and live in a TT and while some folks wouldn't like it I like my life.

SoulRaven · Feb 4, 2018

Much of the jobs she complained about the wage and working conditions are done in many parts of the US, and the complaints that she heard are typical with employers in the real world. Not unusual here in KS to be doing physically demanding jobs with people working well into their 60s. And wages often reflect the cost of living in the area. Jobs at Amazon are actually "prized" in the areas where they have located. We lost our facility in Coffeyville, devastating to the area.

Right now in the park, we have 5 long term RVers with 3 of them being traveling medical professionals on longer assignments, and all of them under age 40. We have 1 couple with a 15 year old daughter they are homeschooling, the mother is on disability for physical injury and the father works in town - they had lost everything at one point, but are working their way back to having more choices planning to get a new rig.

She said "many" and I have noticed writers using this when "many" is not the case, such as in the case of what the writer is saying. My bet is that I was out and about talking with every RVer from full-timer to snowbird in AZ that I could find when she was still in grade school, and I have talked to many, many more since that time. (I am very "chatty" and always starved for knowledge.)

She did insufficient research on the subject, seemed to have a definite political lean. All too often, the article turns out to state what the person writing it wanted it to say in the first place. : (

lenny flank · Feb 4, 2018

cyndi said:
In Jessica's defense she was writing about a specific part of the mobile population.

I'm not sure why that's so hard to grasp.

It's not hard for US to grasp because we meet all the different sorts of dwellers all the time.

But it is hard for the outsiders who never see any of us to grasp.

Chuck1 · Feb 4, 2018

Snow Gypsy said:
She did insufficient research on the subject, seemed to have a definite political lean. All too often, the article turns out to state what the person writing it wanted it to say in the first place. : (

Journalism is a weapon now, it was very derogatory like most of it is now.

Maybe it should have been balanced with the 20 richest in Americans being as rich has half the country, who needs 50-100 billion dollars, then pay workers $10 an hr, modern slavery living paycheck to paycheck.

lenny flank · Feb 4, 2018

Chuck1 said:
Journalism is a weapon now

Alas, in our idiotically hyper-partisan country, EVERYTHING is a weapon, from science to history to whether the candidate with the most votes should win the election. It's why we can't have nice things.

But alas, even THAT statement will, in our idiotically hyper-partisan times, be scrutinized by both sides, then weaponized as "political".

(sigh)

rm.w/aview · Feb 4, 2018

We have budget parameters that'll dictate our lifestyles, how we live within these parameters is individualistic to a large degree, with similarities within our circle of friends. Same as it ever was.

John61CT · Feb 4, 2018

To the extent there **are** people who are forced by circumstances to live this way

which I would define as those who would prefer to live in a cottage or apartment if that were available via the social safety net, subsidized so it cost say 25% of their net income with utilities

then it is fair enough to campaign for social justice to alleviate that suffering.

Journalism, writing books, making movies, nothing wrong with having a political POV and using those tools to help the campaign for progress in those areas where our society needs to become more civilized.

If "the other side" wants to use the same tools to argue that homelessness, poor education, food insecurity and lack of universal healthcare are good things for our society, they are free to do the same.

Chuck1 · Feb 4, 2018

John61CT said:
Journalism, writing books, making movies, nothing wrong with having a political POV and using those tools to help the campaign for progress in those areas where our society needs to become more civilized.

If "the other side" wants to use the same tools to argue that homelessness, poor education, food insecurity and lack of universal healthcare are good things for our society, they are free to do the same.

The news 30 years ago was controlled by 40 company's (one ceo each) now its controlled by 5-6 people (ceo's), all on the same side, there is no "other side"... of the 5, 1 plays the other side to some degree because there is money in it.

lenny flank · Feb 4, 2018

John61CT said:
Journalism, writing books, making movies, nothing wrong with having a political POV and using those tools to help the campaign for progress in those areas where our society needs to become more civilized.

If "the other side" wants to use the same tools to argue that homelessness, poor education, food insecurity and lack of universal healthcare are good things for our society, they are free to do the same.

No argument from me.

But I suspect we are now straying into forbidden territory.........

SoulRaven · Feb 4, 2018

But then, we aren't supposed to be "politically" open here, and that is where the thread is headed. And, I thought this was supposed to be about the "nomadic" lifestyle, not society in general as one could go out and find enough people to write an article about and do the same finding the homeless, etc. and saying "Many older Americans are living a desperate life in the city/rural areas/pick anything.", and the truth is, it isn't many, same as for the "nomadic" lifestyle. I dislike stereotyping of any group of people, and when you say "many"..............

Political article probably inappropriate here for discussion.

John61CT · Feb 4, 2018

I believe the increasing number of fulltiming nomads has at least as much to do with economic trends, lowering standards of living among what used to be called the middle class,

as the Instagram #vanlife fashion aspects.

My point is the fact that Jess is drawing attention to the former factor rather than the latter is a good thing.

News, Many older Americans are living a desperate, nomadic life

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