Gvannin said:
Either tilting panels, or an ice-chest, or both.
Question on alternator upgrade
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Either tilting panels, or an ice-chest, or both.
Almost There
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tx2sturgis said:
No, as someone who lives in BC for 6 months of the year, tilting panels won't do a darn thing when you're sitting in dense coastal rain forest or interior forests. Nor will it do you any good when you don't see the sun for weeks at a time because of smoke from the forest fires. Also even on a bright sunny day (which is rare...
), the latitude and angle of the sun mean that you get about 25% of solar power than that same sun delivers to any point in the southwest on a day to day basis. The best options for a successful electrical system that is independent of the grid is a combination of generator, solenoid for when driving and solar.
Sorry, and thanks for asking.bonvanroulez said:
CAR is current acceptance rate, or charging acceptance rate.
So FLA is maybe .2C (20A per 100AH), AGM maybe .8C
Both being lead, CAR falling off rapidly as SoC climbs, aka trailing amps.
Here's a great resource to understand that: https://marinehowto.com/how-fast-can-an-agm-battery-be-charged/
LFP can in theory go to multiple C, and does not trail off until the very end, so can easily destroy an alt or other power source without effective current limiting as part of its regulation.
Adding a good external VR like Balmat MC-614 to an alt is one fix, but often not practical. I usually reco a DCDC charger like Sterling's BB series, gives more flexibility and value for money.
Almost There said:
There was nothing in the OP's posts about parking in the shade of a dense forest canopy. Rainy weather was mentioned so my advice is add an icechest to use (since ambient temps will probably be cooler anyway) instead of trying to power a 12v fridge on limited solar, and what solar is employed, use it to best advantage by tilting the panels if possible.
Gensets and shore power are always an option, of course, but extended stays while off-grid are gonna get expensive, and ice is fairly cheap.
A portable (or installed) propane fridge might be another solution for the OP.
paulrh
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bullfrog said:
From the Lifeline technical manual:
The charging current during the Bulk stage should be set as high as practical; higher current levels mean faster recharge time and less time for the plates to become sulfated. Due to the low impedance design, Lifeline[emoji2400] batteries can tolerate in-rush current levels as high as 5C (500A for a 100Ah battery).
Look up the Balmar MC-614 for use with externally regulated alternators.
Bottom line is to follow the manufacturers recommendation for charging.
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Seminole Wind
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tx2sturgis said:
ice might be "cheap" but it adds up and is a pain in the bum. when you add in spoiled/lost food because is slipped into the melt water or you didnt replace it in time. trying to live on ice is never as cheap as it seams. not to mention the pain in ther bum always having to drain melt water and finding places to buy ice.
a good sized battery bank with a good battery charger and small genrator combined with engine charging can be a good package if you really are in areas that solar is not practicle.
i spend 11 months a year most years on the oregon and washington coasts with a lot of time camped in the deep dark woods. although my solar takes care of most of the summer as long as i am not camped in heavy shade. come winter, like right now it just does not keep up.
for $500 you can get a quality power corrected 30amp battery charger like the sterling/promariner chargers AND a cheap 1000 inverter generator and use that if you are not driving. it will charge better and cheaper than running your engine while stationary.
i personally have the promariner 1230 that is a 30 amp 12 volt nominal charger and i run it with the sportsman 1000 inverter generator. the charger can be had under $300 on amazon and the sportsman can be had right around $200 depending on sales.
this generator will run that 30 amp charger and charge my laptop, electric bike and power the fridge at the same time. it runs around 6 hours on .6 gallons of gas while doing that. i can go about 4 days with no sun/no driving and then run a tank of fuel through the genny. worst case i burn less than a gallon of gas a week ($3 right now) thats close to the cost of a bag of ice. in the summer i used to use more like 2-3 bags of ice a week even when i could find block ice. and with the generator/charger set up i dont have to drive to town for ice all the time. a 2.5 gallon can of gas lasts about a month
There are tradeoffs, pros and cons, either way.
Lets say you spend $300 on a cheap inverter generator.
$300 on a Promariner charger.
$300 on a healthy pair of batteries.
$500 on a decent 12v fridge.
$100 on a good continuous duty solenoid and the cables and fuses.
$50 on a couple of decent gas cans.
$100 on the tools and supplies (oil, filters, wrenches, tool box etc) to maintain all of it.
So, about $1650 to keep 2 cubic feet of food cold.
And you still need to buy gas and oil, AND you may still need to go fetch fresh water and food at the nearest market every week or maybe every two weeks.
Or:
$300 for a high quality ice chest like a Yeti, Orga, Engel, or similar.
Buy $5 worth of ice about once every week in cooler weather, or about every 3 days in hot weather, assuming you have access to it somewhere within reasonable distance.
For the difference in capital expense, $1350 bucks, you can buy ice for 270 weeks during winter camping, or 100 weeks of summer camping.
Full time, its gonna make sense to not depend on ice, but again, the OP does not not mention full time.
The OP DOES mention living in B.C., so one could easily assume this use is for part time, weekends, or even a month-long road trip.
We just dont know the situation.
So I posted my solution which may or may not work for him or others, but it can work, I've done it myself, and after a month on the road, I have come back with some of the original large block of ice, still in my icechest, and only bought ice in bags about once a week to maybe once every 4 days. Some of my consumption of ice is using it in drinks, not all of it is melting in the cooler.
Plus I always had 'melt-water' to use for non-potable water around the campsite.
Not for everyone, and I know that, we all do.
But it might work in the OP's situation.
Lets say you spend $300 on a cheap inverter generator.
$300 on a Promariner charger.
$300 on a healthy pair of batteries.
$500 on a decent 12v fridge.
$100 on a good continuous duty solenoid and the cables and fuses.
$50 on a couple of decent gas cans.
$100 on the tools and supplies (oil, filters, wrenches, tool box etc) to maintain all of it.
So, about $1650 to keep 2 cubic feet of food cold.
And you still need to buy gas and oil, AND you may still need to go fetch fresh water and food at the nearest market every week or maybe every two weeks.
Or:
$300 for a high quality ice chest like a Yeti, Orga, Engel, or similar.
Buy $5 worth of ice about once every week in cooler weather, or about every 3 days in hot weather, assuming you have access to it somewhere within reasonable distance.
For the difference in capital expense, $1350 bucks, you can buy ice for 270 weeks during winter camping, or 100 weeks of summer camping.
Full time, its gonna make sense to not depend on ice, but again, the OP does not not mention full time.
The OP DOES mention living in B.C., so one could easily assume this use is for part time, weekends, or even a month-long road trip.
We just dont know the situation.
So I posted my solution which may or may not work for him or others, but it can work, I've done it myself, and after a month on the road, I have come back with some of the original large block of ice, still in my icechest, and only bought ice in bags about once a week to maybe once every 4 days. Some of my consumption of ice is using it in drinks, not all of it is melting in the cooler.
Plus I always had 'melt-water' to use for non-potable water around the campsite.
Not for everyone, and I know that, we all do.
But it might work in the OP's situation.
Seminole Wind
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saying one lives in "BC" is like saying one lives in the south west (in USA terms) reading any more than that into it is follytx2sturgis said:
they might not have mentioned full time or not but the OP clearly states they plan on a 12v fridge and a battery bank. then in their first response back, reiterates by asking about the best options for a successful electrical set up.
you did not factor in the cost of fuel, wear and tear from extra driving and the hassle of breaking camp to drive to where ever you have to go to get the ice. that adds up
also so many people just blatantly say an alternator alone wont cut it. sure it might not be perfect or easy, but all of the concerns mentioned regarding alt only are valid concerns. they are not insurmountable.
the claim that an alternator can not handle the output is misleading. am i the only oneto ever drive long distances on a cold night. you know head lights on heater fan going. each of those consumes around 15 amps each. so just about any car can provide 30 amps extra to use for charging if you are not using your head lights and running the heater fan. so now with a little care we have 30 amps of charging available to use from the alternator. 30 amps is roughly equal to 400 watts of good solar, nothing to sneeze at. from any car, many trucks and other rigs come with larger alternators that could safe and reliably provide more.
one of the big problems mentioned previously is getting a good long life out of your batteries because charging them back to FULL takes many hours regardless of the size of your manhood, er i mean alternator. but there are solutions to that as well. the sweetest and of course the most expensive is some form of lithium battery chemistry lithium ion or lifepo4 can be charge back to full about as quick as you can put the juice to them and even if you dont get them full they dont degrade due to being under charged. not as expensive as lithium are the carbon foam firefly oasis batteries. these batteries have a long lifetime and are not nearly as affected by failing to fully recharge on a regular basis so even if you are not driving enough to keep the batteries full, as long as you put in enough run time to provide the electricity to run your gear you are fine. then occasionally run longer to get a full charge
then when it comes time you need to charge the batteries but you dont really need to drive any where (because you have refrigeration and dont have to go looking for ice) so many people tell you you cant just run your engine to recharge. well, they are right that a standard rig will not do much charging if you just idle it. but there is a solution to that aswell. spend good money on a quality battery to battery charger like the ones sterling offers, coupled with an after market smart alternator regulator that does 3 stage charging and install a manual throttle control. this way you can bring your RPM's up and the B2B charger will pull amps from the starter battery and charge the house bank while the upgraded alternator regulator will provide the charge to keep the starter battery charged. and if you have lithium or the fireflys then you only need to charge enough to keep your gear running. no need to run all day to fully charge
you can even get undersize/oversize pulleys to increase alternator rotor speed, but be careful you dont end up over speeding your alt while driving down the highway
doing it this way and following tx2... adage you could save the money instead of buying a generator and charger to spend on fuel to run the engine to charge.
personally i like the generator charger combo as it gives me more versatility so i got those first. but i will be doing the alternator and battery upgrades as well when $ allows. whats better, belt or suspenders? i say both
so dont let the nay sayers shoot down your plan.it can be done and done well. is that way the only way to live in a truck in the woods? not at all. you have to weigh the pros and cons and do the cost/benefit for your self.
if you would like more detailed info on it let me know,i would be happy to help you spec out a system for your wants and needs
Seminole Wind said:
It's funny how quotes, and then quotes of quotes, get interpreted in different ways. "LIVING in bc" is the way I interpreted the OP. Not "living in BEECEE".
No folly involved: it was indicated to me that the OP was living somewhere, not transitioning to full time van dwelling. It's a subtle, but important, difference. Of course, I could be mistaken, it's happened before!
I did not factor in cost of fuel and time to get supplies in either example, (getting ice, food and water, or getting fuel, food, and water) on purpose. There would be no way to estimate that since we all end up in different areas, with vastly different circumstances, way too variable to predict or calculate, unless we know the specifics.
Just a sidenote here: In many places I visit I can get free ice...I just carry a large mug/bucket combo into a convenience store or gas station and fill them up with ice (usually at no cost when buying other things like gas or supplies) at the soda fountain...my ice chests dont need much ice most of the time.
I also did not factor in replacements of batteries and gensets in 3-10 years either. That adds up too!
Many part-timers and new campers (and even some experienced campers) assume that the cheap ice-chests will work fine, but in my experience, they do not preserve ice as well as the expensive ones. And the expensive icechests last for decades!
But I'm not in the ice-vending business, so it doesn't change my situation either way. Just saying it might be a cost-saving idea for the OP, especially if part-timing, but it's for the OP to run the numbers and make the choices.
That's all.
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