The BLM’s “ Blueprint for 21st Century Outdoor Recreation ”

rruff · Sep 13, 2024

Most of my boondocking experience was in the 90s, but with well over 1000 days of camping on BLM land, I never saw a BLM ranger.

I did however notice that NFS rangers shifted pretty rapidly from being people who loved the outdoors, to "forest cops".

Part of the recent crackdown is certainly justified by too many people creating garbage dumps on public land. I've seen some pretty places absolutely trashed. But as you might expect the authoritarian response is to go after the people who aren't the problem, because even though many are poor, they aren't completely broke... unlike the meth heads who are living in garbage.

Our stupid laws that basically make it impossible to punish a broke, homeless, drug addict in any way has led to this.

rruff · Sep 13, 2024

maki2 said:
It would be great if the LTVA were to charge a very large extra fee for having one of them. That would certainly solve the overcrowding issues as well as increasing the revenue.

As you are probably aware, the BLM heavily promotes this form of recreation! If you've ever been around Picacho Peak north of Yuma, that is a stunningly beautiful area where I used to camp often, and there'd be no one around. Now it's an OHV park... not kidding.

hwdean · Sep 13, 2024

The price increase is long overdue

bullfrog ! · Sep 13, 2024

rruff said:
As you are probably aware, the BLM heavily promotes this form of recreation! If you've ever been around Picacho Peak north of Yuma, that is a stunningly beautiful area where I used to camp often, and there'd be no one around. Now it's an OHV park... not kidding.

Picasso Peak is north of Tucson isn’t it?

rruff · Sep 13, 2024

bullfrog ! said:
Picasso Peak is north of Tucson isn’t it?

This one north of Yuma is actually in CA.

bullfrog ! · Sep 13, 2024

rruff said:
This one north of Yuma is actually in CA.

View attachment 36382

Thanks! I really liked the mountains in that area when we were out that way.

INTJohn · Sep 13, 2024

Years back I spent 17/18, 18/19 at the Hot Springs LTVA and couldnt believe how dirt cheap it was at 180$ for basically 6+ months - a buk a day.
The biggest percentage of vehicles in the place were actually Canadian and it didn't take me long to start thinking why aren't these ltvas more expensive - especially the non Murahkan RV’s?

I was like this should be raised to like 600$ which averages 100$/mo - geeesh! 3$ a day? Still a helluva bargain. Should at least be that for the foreign registered vehicles.

That was my thinking back then. Today idk the situation as haven't been there for years but if its similar to then, 600$ is dirt cheap bargain and foreign registered vehicles charge 1000$ or 1200. If those Canadians can afford to drive those motorhomes to Az they can afford to stay there all winter at 1200$ - still a helluva bargain.

Otherwise, let em go to Mexico or stay up there in the Arctic.

Sayin…….
INTJohn

maki2 · Sep 13, 2024

The $100 a month is not so much the issue as having to pay that fee up front even if you do not stay the whole season. There are already many people paying $180 and staying for less than 2 months. Which is part of the reason the BLM thinks that $600 is going to net them a ton of money. But that thinking is faulty logic! Those majority of those 2 moth persons simply will not show up and pay $600 to walk around a big flea market atmosphere. But they might pay less money and go stay for a voiple of weeks in the new RV park across the road from the Tyson Wash Circus Event. At least for their money they get actual hookups.

Then the BLM dispersed camping will take the brunt impact of overuse as well the free county landfill and the water wells in the town. The town of Quartzsite will be very displeased if those wells start drying up as will the RV park businesses in town. It is all a big mess and fortunately one I can avoid if I want to which I did in the winter of 2023.

INTJohn · Sep 13, 2024

Upfront cost? Com on..…..
People would put it on their credit card if they could but since thats not an option they should be able to think far enuff ahead to stop at the local atm or 3 b4 arrival.
Or
They got all of 6 months to convert to cash.
Think up a hard luck woe is me story and get on Go Fund Me…….
They’ll probably be renting a seaside bungalow in La Jolla in no time.

Murahka! Wadda Kuntree!
intjonny

towboater · Sep 13, 2024

INTJohn said:
Years back I spent 17/18, 18/19 at the Hot Springs LTVA and couldnt believe how dirt cheap it was at 180$ for basically 6+ months - a buk a day.
The biggest percentage of vehicles in the place were actually Canadian and it didn't take me long to start thinking why aren't these ltvas more expensive - especially the non Murahkan RV’s?

I was like this should be raised to like 600$ which averages 100$/mo - geeesh! 3$ a day? Still a helluva bargain. Should at least be that for the foreign registered vehicles.

That was my thinking back then. Today idk the situation as haven't been there for years but if its similar to then, 600$ is dirt cheap bargain and foreign registered vehicles charge 1000$ or 1200. If those Canadians can afford to drive those motorhomes to Az they can afford to stay there all winter at 1200$ - still a helluva bargain.

Otherwise, let em go to Mexico or stay up there in the Arctic.

Sayin…….
INTJohn

I agree that a rate increase is overdue but not an extra fee for Canadians. I don’t believe I have ever been charged a nonresident fee in Canada and they contribute a lot of money to the state economy. Last month I vacationed in Door county, WI. And was charged an additional nonresident $8.00/day camping fee at a state park Best wishes

bullfrog ! · Sep 13, 2024

I’ve always stayed down the road in the free 14 day areas and rotated to other local options. There are lots of cheap or free camping if you just caravan or move every 14 days. Most boondockers need a resupply after 14 days anyway so it isn’t really a question of paying for fuel but of efficiency and only making town trips when needed on your way to the next place. Cabala Loco went up last year to $1300 a year a few years back it was $800 just a few hundred miles away. Tucson, Sonita, Ajo, Cargo Mucho Mountains all have free 14 day camping last I checked. Two weeks of Quartzite is about all the humanity I could stand! As far as non resident fees I just refuse to stay where they insist on them but it probably won’t phase most of the owners of large RVs, they still have more money than they need if they have a new one in my opinion.

maki2 · Sep 13, 2024

bullfrog ! said:
…. Two weeks of Quartzite is about all the humanity I could stand!

I stay a at the LTVA because I am at heart very lazy and packing up to move every 14 days is WORK. My fault of course as my nomadic lifestyle equipment is not quite as simple as some other person’s setups.

It sure is a lot faster to unpack than to pack up.

INTJohn · Sep 13, 2024

towboater said:
I agree that a rate increase is overdue but not an extra fee for Canadians. I don’t believe I have ever been charged a nonresident fee in Canada and they contribute a lot of money to the state economy. Last month I vacationed in Door county, WI. And was charged an additional nonresident $8.00/day camping fee at a state park Best wishes

Ok no extra fee for Canadians.
Charge everyone 1200$ for the season.
Now I’m happy.

Jonny

INTJohn · Sep 13, 2024

maki2 said:
I stay a at the LTVA because I am at heart very lazy and packing up to move every 14 days is WORK. My fault of course as my nomadic lifestyle equipment is not quite as simple as some other person’s setups.

It sure is a lot faster to unpack than to pack up.

Exactly. When I stayed at Hotsprings LTVa I used it as a base camp. Travelled all over SoCal & Az stayin in my pickup and would return to the travel trailer every week or so. Stay at Kamp for a week then take off somewhere else for a week, etc.

Inform the hosts I was leaving in my truck for a week or so; tell em an area I was headed to; you got my cell - ciao. Be back in a week.
There, gone, return, gone, return, gone, etc.

jonny

bullfrog ! · Sep 13, 2024

INTJohn said:
Exactly. When I stayed at Hotsprings LTVa I used it as a base camp. Travelled all over SoCal & Az stayin in my pickup and would return to the travel trailer every week or so. Stay at Kamp for a week then take off somewhere else for a week, etc.

Inform the hosts I was leaving in my truck for a week or so; tell em an area I was headed to; you got my cell - ciao. Be back in a week.
There, gone, return, gone, return, gone, etc.

jonny

If I’m not mistaken you cannot leave your belongings over a certain period of time like maybe 24 hours now. Again too many rules in LTVAs for me.

abnorm · Sep 13, 2024

Check the documents................The California LTVAs are opting OUT of the system because of the costs

INTJohn · Sep 13, 2024

bullfrog ! said:
If I’m not mistaken you cannot leave your belongings over a certain period of time like maybe 24 hours now. Again too many rules in LTVAs for me.

When i stayed there one could leave for up to 2 weeks at a time as long as you informed host of your leaving, etc. and i always let them know as soon as i returned. Common sense courtesy really.

Dont have clue how any of its run now.
Edit: blm ltva rules says not more than 5 days without authorization. Item No 5 in link:
https://www.blm.gov/sites/default/files/documents/files/LTVASupplementaryRules.pdf

I always let the host know what I was doing sooo “authorized”

maki2 · Sep 13, 2024

bullfrog ! said:
If I’m not mistaken you cannot leave your belongings over a certain period of time like maybe 24 hours now. Again too many rules in LTVAs for me.

The rules say you can leave your vehicle unattended for a week. If you need more time than that then you have to arrange to get prior approval. In other words if you had a family emergency or had a medical emergency that was longer than a week you contact the BLM and see what they can do to help keep an eye on it. Maybe also arrange to leave a spare key and a volunteer to check on it.

Last fall there was a local tow company that dropped off a travel trailer in sight of my campsite. It sat there empty for several weeks before a couple showed up. The reverse situation happened in late March. The couple left and several weeks later a company towed it away to what I imagined was a local storage facility. I did not go over and make acquaintance so all I am doing is speculating.

Dirtrider · Sep 14, 2024

rruff said:
Most of my boondocking experience was in the 90s, but with well over 1000 days of camping on BLM land, I never saw a BLM ranger.

I did however notice that NFS rangers shifted pretty rapidly from being people who loved the outdoors, to "forest cops".

Part of the recent crackdown is certainly justified by too many people creating garbage dumps on public land. I've seen some pretty places absolutely trashed. But as you might expect the authoritarian response is to go after the people who aren't the problem, because even though many are poor, they aren't completely broke... unlike the meth heads who are living in garbage.

Our stupid laws that basically make it impossible to punish a broke, homeless, drug addict in any way has led to this.

It's really our stupid lawmakers fault, they make the laws....

bullfrog ! · Sep 14, 2024

My view from inside is there has been a general shift of the general public’s attitude due to small but even more visible groups of people doing stuff nobody thought anyone would do. Add to that the threat of extreme weather situations that have occurred and huge crowds during the Covid outbreaks along with huge pressure from corporations and opponents at both ends of the spectrum concerning how we preserve or use wildlands controlled by the government. Plus government leadership swinging radically from preservation to utilizing while militarizing law enforcement it is chaos as individual political appointed superintendents and older experienced rangers scramble to get high enough up the pay scale to be able to retire as soon as possible or powerful enough to not have to worry about it. Many of the helpful instructor teacher type rangers that would explain why you can’t have an open fire here have left and been replaced with “ninja” type law enforcement better equipped to deal with the many more radical type visitors that are starting dumpster fires. Numbers of first time visitors have increased while staffing has stayed the same or decreased. Facilities are over run or disappearing as they wear out or resources dry up and the situation has been made worse by extreme climate events. When large increasing numbers of people are living on government controlled land and have no other place to do so and cannot afford to abide by the rules or don’t feel they need to when there is not enough enforcement to preserve the areas this is what happens. Any place humans stay is impacted as far as the environment is concerned and how long they stay and how they treat it while there matters. Add radical climate and declining resources and it creates a radical response. Few rangers years ago went into service to be policemen most went in to be stewards of the land which is not possible or the case today. Even state wildlife officers have been made traffic cops as was brought to light a few weeks ago in Utah as they were “encouraged” to write speeding tickets on the interstate while traveling.

The BLM’s “ Blueprint for 21st Century Outdoor Recreation ”

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