You and the Police-A Perspective from the Other Side

Grimjack · Jun 3, 2013

Hi All,  I've been a police officer in a large town for approximately 20 years. I'm interested in the vandwelling lifestyle as a way to escape a soul-sucking job. I'm not married to the idea(yet) it's just one of a number of ideas I have. Including moving overseas, and/or living on a sailboat....Anyway I know there has been a lot of discussion about stealth camping dealing with the cops.....I thought I'd give my perspective from the cops side, and how I'd handle situations with my experience being a cop. Sorry if it gets a little long. The first (and probably most) important thing to remember is that cops are just people. They all have different motivations, desires, morals, and most importantly egos. I can't stress this enough. For the most part police work tends to attract type A, highly egotistic personalities. Which are then fed by spending a career telling people how to act, where to stand, what's right and what's wrong. Cops do not like being told they are wrong, or how to do their job. If you begin your interaction with the police like that it will, nine times out of ten, end badly for you.  (As an aside I have never enjoyed this aspect of police work. I believe that people should be left alone to conduct themselves as they want, including using drugs, as long as they are not hurting or impacting anyone else.) The most interaction you will have with the police will be during the night, when you are trying to sleep. Things you do that draw attention from the police: 1)Parking in a location that doesn't fit your vehicle. Cops are trained to observe differences in behavior. Some are better at it than others. If I see a brand new mercedes parked in a section 8 housing complex, its going to draw my attention. I will at the least run the plates to check if its stolen. Likewise If I see an older van parked on the street in a upper middle class neighborhood I may start thinking burglars casing the area. At the least I'll run the plates and maybe even go try to peak inside.  Most cops don't care if you're parked in walmart lots, or commercial areas. the property owners might care and call us, but, for the most part, we want to catch bad guys not hassle people living in a van. 2)Your vehicle looks like Crap-I'm not trying to be mean or funny about this. A cop sees a vehicle on the street with broken lights (of any type) things tied to the outside, (roof racks are an exception to this as its common for workers to store stuff on the roof) extremely dirty, engine smoking excessively, fenders falling off, I hope you get the idea? In cop talk that's what's called "rolling probable cause." See, they really don't care if your tail light is out, what they care about is getting in your van and that stuff gives them a good reason to "investigate further" The overall attitude is that the guy in his van can't even handle simple maintainence on his vehicle, what else in his life isn't he handling. Maybe he's got some old warrants, or maybe he's got some dope hidden in the van? It doesn't matter if your a church going bible thumping virgin who's never done anything wrong in your life. If you have the appearance of a doper, you're gonna get treated like one. Even if your parked for the night, and your vehicle is all beat up its more likely Mr. Officer is gonna knock on your door. 3)Obvious signs that your in it. Condensation on the windows, lights showing through, fresh empties outside the van, power cord plugged in to nearby business. (don't laugh I've seen it happen) If you don't take care to be inconspicuous when your stealth parking either the cops will see you and take note, or a nosy neighbor will see it and call it in. Either way you're getting a visit. It's probably worse if the neighbor calls. If the cops find you and everything is good, they may let you go back to sleep, if the neighbor calls you're gonna get asked to move along at a minimum. 4)expired registration- #1 easiest way for cops to stop you, is for you not to pay your reg fees. I can't even count how many gun or dope cases(early in my career) I've made because of an expired registration. "pretext stop" This is getting long, I will deal with how to talk to the cops, and what your rights are in different posts.  Feel free to ask questions! I'm happy to answer anything. However, If you hate the cops (I understand, really I do.) and just want to bash me personally, please refrain.  Thanks for reading, Grimjack

Lostinspace · Jun 3, 2013

I can understand the stress part.  I had a neighbor in Cape Canaveral, FL when I lived there in the late 70's who had been a policeman in New York in the bad old days back before Giuliani cleaned it up.  He never talked about it much other than to say he really got tired of it.  So he moved to Florida with his wife and two kids and took a position as a policeman with the City of Cape Canaveral.  I'm guessing he took a huge pay cut to do that.  But he was happier. There are a couple of members who have lived or are living on a sailboat here.  I wanted to do that too and often went into Walter Mitty mode about living on a sailboat.  Life got in the way and I never did it. Welcome to the group.  Your insight will be appreciated.

Ziggy Moon · Jun 3, 2013

Good Information, Grimjack. I'm interested in hearing more, please! By the way, I have a sailboat I'm trying to sell right now.... 23 ft, solid hull, needs a good carpenter type to redo the cabin below (I gutted it with over zealous dreams)! Anyway, hurricane season just officially began down here and it's anchored out on the river! More of a liability to me...... heck, I'm almost ready to give it away.

Grimjack · Jun 3, 2013

oOk.....You've taken all the precautions; your vehicle is clean, and nothing is broken, you've parked for the night in a commercial area, and there are no obvious signs of occupancy. Then there is a knock on your door. First time ignore it. Whoever is knocking may not be sure if anyone is home....if they leave, you're golden, go back to sleep. If the knocking persists look out a window to see who it is....If its not the cops you have a choice. If its private security, you can either deal with them, or advise them that you will leave. You don't even have to get out to do this. Just give them whatever prearranged story you have (I was tired and didn't want too crash) and offer to leave. Be apologetic. Now if its just some guy who's knocking its probably polite  to give him a "what's up?" from inside the van. He may be a good samaritan telling you your leaking oil or your lights are on. On the other hand he may be trying to rob you....either way there is no reason to get out of your van to deal with him. any conversation can be had through the window. I would probably still move after the conversation is over.....your location has been compromised. If its the cops- First thing don't panic. Its a routine and the cops have done it before. For the most part they are not trying to arrest you. They are throwing out a fish hook to see how big a fish they can catch. Be polite (this is very important) They will ask for ID. They will most likely pat you down for weapons, Be prepared for them to do so. Be prepared to hand over your ID. Most cities have a law about sleeping in your vehicle. So they already have probable cause for an arrest. They have every right to ask for ID. If you tell them you don't have ID, or you lost it, or your dog ate it, Whatever-they will immediately become more suspicious. The cops deal with people who lie all the time. When someone lies about their identity the first step is to claim they have no ID. The cops will ask a lot of questions and take notes. Then they will ask the same questions again in different ways trying to catch you on discrepencies. They will compare information you give them against the vast databases they have access to. Questions they will ask:Name and Date of birth, last address, Drivers license number, have you ever been arrested. Have you ever gotten a ticket, BTW-they already know who the vehicle is registered to. They ran the plate before they knocked on your door. They'll want to know who the R/O is if its not you. They may ask for a phone number to call the R/O and verify you have permission to have the van. So you hand over the ID, and everything is fine. You're clean as a summers breeze. At this point they will either; let you stay, send you on your way, or ask you this; "Mind if I take a look inside your van?" Here is where things get complicated; You absolutely have a fourth amendment right that protects you from search and seizure. They can ask all they want, but you can absolutely say no. If you say yes, you can withdraw consent at any time. However remember that little tidbit from earlier about how you have already have broken the law? Well most municipal code violations are misdemeanors. which are punishable by a fine or time in the county jail. The cop could put you in cuffs and take you to jail. Guess what he gets to do if he takes you to jail? That's right, tow your car....and guess what happens to a vehicle towed by the police.....you're right! An inventory search of the vehicle. Being polite and not antagonistic is your key to not having this happen to you. Remember what I said about cops having big egos? "Attitude arrests" are very real and they happen. And while technically it may be a legal arrest the only reason it occurred was to teach someone a lesson and give them an "attitude adjustment." A quick search of the city muni code will let you know if there are laws against sleeping in a vehicle in the city you're in. There is no state law against vagrancy or vehicle camping, its only at the city level. If there is no such law, your on safer ground. Though if a cop really wants to mess with you, he as a number of tools to do so. My best advice is to keep you temper in check, and treat them with respect even if they don't deserve it in any way. If you feel you were treated unfairly, make a note of the officer's name and badge #. Complain to Internal Affairs don't let them tell you his supervisor will counsel him. Ask to be notified of the disposition of the IA case.

offroad · Jun 3, 2013

oh that catch 22.  you can say no to a search, but now they are suspicious and can arrest you for sleeping in vehicle ordinance.  and search anyway, as inventory when they impound the vehicle. what if you have a dog,  you cant open the vehicle to search, as they could result in injury to dog and police person.  sure put it on a lease, but that also might require a canine unit to hold the dog, etc.  lots of complexity now. This still says to me that the remote county border is your friend, to park near that.

caseyc · Jun 3, 2013

Grimjack, Great insights! Thanks for posting!  Police have a tough job for sure.  I also agree that neighbors are the ones who do the complaining usually.  In my neck of the woods, it's legal to park up to 2 weeks at a time in certain neighborhoods, at least theoretically speaking, before having to move a vehicle for street cleaning.  However, I've also noticed that this pretty much only applies to "regular" vehicles such as a Honda Civic, Ford Mustang, sedans, etc.  When it comes to noticeably larger vehicles such as an RV, or an oversized van, a neighbor is more likely to complain about the oversized vehicle being parked for too long in the same spot.  Several years ago, I used to have a 23' Class C used RV.  The RV was in decent shape, nothing wrong with it, current registration and sticker, etc.  However, one time a neighbor stuck a message on my windshield saying something to the effect of "your vehicle is ruining our scenic view of the neighborhood".  Another time, after parking for about 5 or 6 days in a row in the same spot, an official "Warning" notice was placed on my windshield from the Dept of Traffic, and cited the "72 Hour Ordinance" regarding parking in the same spot.  I Googled that ordinance, and sure enough it was real! I swear I didn't know about that rule at the time.  Long story short on the RV, I ended up selling it for a loss because it was too much trouble for parking.  I now have a 1995 Ford E150 conversion van that's fixed up pretty nicely.  However, even with that van, I once got the same "Warning" notice from parking in front of a neighbor's house for too many days in a row. What's the point of this, if any?  My observation is that a neighbor will not complain about "regular" size vehicles parked in front of their house or neighbood even if parked in same spot for more than several days in a row.  But when it comes to say an RV in particular, or even a van such as mine, I run the risk of getting the 72 hour ordinance warning notice.  Is this fair or not?  Not for me to say.  The only thing I can do now to avoid the potential of getting another warning notice is to constantly move my van every 2 or 3 days and park at a different spot at least 2 blocks away from the previous spot.  I no longer get those warning notices with my van now that I regularly park at a different spot.  I've seen many RVs (and oversized vans) get those same warning notices on their windshield.  Worse, I've also seen RVs get the "Denver boot" which is the bright yellow lock on one of their wheels.  Getting "the boot" means the owner left their vehicle parked for way too long in the same spot and/or has not paid many outstanding parking tickets.  I've never gotten the boot before, not even an official citation ticket.  I only ever got a warning notice that says something to the effect that you must move this vehicle to another spot at least 1/10 mile away by such and such date and time or else run the risk of getting a ticket or towed, or both.  Unfortunately, I cannot park my van in my apartment garage because I only have one spot which is reserved for my BMW convertible.  Plus my van is too large to even fit inside my garage in the first place.  Parking is positively the number one biggest issue for me on a regular basis.  I would pay for a private parking spot, but it's hard to find a spot large enough for my van to fit into.  Oh well, just wanted to add my .02 cents into this thread. Cheers, Casey

ice_maiden · Jun 3, 2013

First off... Welcome to the forum Grimjack and thanks for all of this useful information. I will have to agree on much of what you have said.....The main one being ..... TELL THE TRUTH... even if you are in the wrong. By telling the truth .. When stopped I have gotten away with: Driving on suspended license.. he ticketed me for no seatbelt Speeding...ticketed for expired inspection. Driving on expired license (2 years expired) .... told to go renew! it doesn't hurt that a few traffic violations are all the record I have It surprises the police when you stand there and say ok I did it. sorry.... they tend to be more lenient That doesn't mean I have not run into a jerk or two but even then it was harder for them to be a jerk when I was nice, polite and cooperative. My daddy always told me you can get away with more if you tell the truth... I have found that to be a fact where police are concerned.

Suanne · Jun 3, 2013

Grimjack, Thank you so much for your posts here, providing your perspective and knowledge as a cop.  As someone who sleeps in her car, I've often wondered what I'd do if I got a knock on the window from a cop.  Instinctively, I think I would react by being respectful, knowing that I could be in violation of the law and, therefore, subject to arrest should the cop wish to do so.  I love living out of my car, the freedom and opportunities for travel that it offers.  Like you, I'm married to someone who loves his sticks-and-bricks.  I've made the choice to spend some time traveling solo, some time traveling with him, and some time here in our traditional home.  Compromise is hard; but, for me, worth it. The best to you ... Suanne

MK7 · Jun 3, 2013

caseyc, good Lord.....they're called paragraphs.

caseyc · Jun 3, 2013

I know, I get lazy sometimes!  Haha!

caseyc · Jun 3, 2013

Your wish is my command...paragraphs inserted! <img class="emoticon bbc_img" src="/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif"><img class="emoticon bbc_img" src="/images/boards/smilies/rolleyes.gif"><img class="emoticon bbc_img" src="/images/boards/smilies/rofl.gif">

Ziggy Moon · Jun 3, 2013

So you hand over the ID, and everything is fine. You're clean as a summers breeze. At this point they will either; let you stay, send you on your way, or ask you this; "Mind if I take a look inside your van?" Here is where things get complicated; You absolutely have a fourth amendment right that protects you from search and seizure. They can ask all they want, but you can absolutely say no. If you say yes, you can withdraw consent at any time. However remember that little tidbit from earlier about how you have already have broken the law?

@ Grimjack - I would think that once the officer sends you on your way.... you are released from any illegal activity.... how then can an officer ethically/legally use any violation of an ordnance (no sleeping in vehicle) against you thereafter, when you are just exercising your right to refuse a search? Why is it that a police officer asks to search your vehicle usually "after" it's stated by the officer, in one way or another "your free to go". I had the following happen to me once; I was pulled over, traffic stop for bad tag light....... the officer was nice enough to just give me a "verbal warning" (no paperwork involved) - however, once he gave me the warning and seemed to begin to walk away.. he quickly stopped, and asked - "oh, by the way, you wouldn't mind if I searched your car, would you?". I was young, dumb and all too accommodating. I didn't once think of questioning a request from a police officer, so I allowed him to search - after all, I know I had nothing illegal in my car. Now, had I refused - do you mean to tell me, even though the officer had released me of any wrong - he could have changed his mind, wrote me a ticket, simply because I didn't comply with his request to search? Doesn't seem quite right, does it? I have absolutely nothing to hide, at all! I have moral, ethical and professional reasons to keep my nose clean - But, How is one to handle this if they are caught illegally sleeping in vehicle (due to city ordnance), then basically released to leave, then asked for permission to search? It seems like a sly way (blackmail) for the officer to force you to waive your rights - doesn't it?. I hope my question doesn't make it seem as though I have a grudge against police officers..... I'm just asking, maybe I'm missing something that could be very helpful to me in the future. BTW... way back when the officer pulled me over for the tag light. I got home with the fear of making sure I quickly fixed my blown-out tag light - but I soon came to find that my tag light was working just fine! Had I been Profiled for who knows why? Maybe my long hippie hair... Go figure! lol

creationode · Jun 3, 2013

Grimjack, you are awesome for coming in here and shedding light on this topic. Telling the truth, hands down, is definetly the best way to deal with the police. I have gotten away with, as in, not arrested/jailed, for: - burnt out headlight - speeding, twice - no insurance - improper turns - illegaly towing a buddys car with chains (he got fined though) During all of those illegal situations, I told the truth, all the way.  Yeah, I was fined for some of them, but so what?  I was stupid.  It was my fault %100. As for the 'failure to maintaint financial requirements' ticket (no insurance), I was pulled over for an improper turn.  Which I did do.  I was not even aware it was an improper turn, but that lane was a special lane...so the cop just tails me for 2 blocks, turns his lights on, and I quickly pull over, but he points to a church parking lot, so we pull in there.  I wait with my hands on the wheel in plain sight while he runs my plate.  I know he knows I have no insurance.  He comes up to the front first, checks the VIN and tabs, announces himself as Officer ThisandThat, and asks for...license and INSURANCE...not registration.  He knows, I know...I just hand him my license, and tell him my insurance is expired.  He replies with a quiet kind of 'Ok then'...almost like he wanted me to lie!  But he was very kind, and explained my ticket payment options, and where the court for that city was.  I profusely thanked him, and well all went away happy.  I ended up seeing him pull over another person, at the exact same spot he got me at, for the exact same improper turn...a little trap, actually.  Stupid lane!  I waved to him!  And I still have a 'punched' Texas license, that I have showed to cops...not a word was said about it.  I had the choice of my non-punched WA State license.  Chose the TX.  A whole lot less explaining to do, and no reason to fabricate a story. Sleeping in commercial areas?  I am living proof that the cops, really, have better things to do than profile me. Last week, I tried a new spot...it works, but WOW, that parking lot is like...a mini-detention center! I heard cops blooping their sirens all night catching speeders and drunks from a nearby restaurant/bar. I also had the very unpleasant event of a cop getting into a verbal fight with a perp RIGHT behind my van.  He was there for about 90 minutes with his lights on.  This was before I had my back cargo windows Plastidipped, and the reflective foam insulation panel that is bungeed across my back cargo doors was clearly visible through the windows...I had expired insurance, as well. This was an extended stay hotel parking lot.  I had rented a week term there some months ago, so I sort of knew the clientel: out of town construction/gig workers.  The lot is full of work pickup trucks, and even some vans.  I knew they had no camera security, and the office window had very little coverage of the parking lot.  It is actually a really good place, but I prefer others. SO, I was there, illegal in three ways.  I have removed a little cover to my vented tail light housing, and can actually spy through the vents out the corners of my van.  That is how I was spying on him.  I actually napped a bit during this, I was so sure he did not care about me.  All he had to do was run my plates. I never speed enough to be pulled over for it, I religously use my turn signals, and just drive very well.  I never leave trash in my spots. I pass police all the time, in the smallish area I frequent.  I am in some parking lots enough for them to know I am there.  I am pretty sure that I am at least in the back of some officer's mind in some way.  I keep my van clean, make purchases from the business I am parking near, and do not do any work at all in my camp/sleep spots.  I have a storage unit where the manager lets me do my work at.  Bless him/her! Last week, I tried a spot.  It failed.  A parking lot security guy knocked on my window right as I was pulling a bucket poo.  I waited for him to knock again, and he knocked really hard on the side of the van near the doors.  I knew he found me out, so I told him to 'Hold On'.  I came out the front passengers door and closed it real fast, and told him I was too tired to drive. He let me go real fast, but I left.  It was a non-issue.  I was not even scared. He had one of those fancy pistol tasers though...yikes! (as for MLA style paragraphs, I do not like them.)  (if you cannot read this...too bad.) Today, I did some cosmetic upgrades.  I bought a can of Rustoleum black trim and bumper spray paint.  My van has beautiful front and rear chromed bumpers, but I keep them covered in the factory plastic bumper covers because...I'm not sure yet, but, I just do.  So I cleaned them up really well with citrust cleaner and brushed and shop rags, then gave them a nice spray coat of the Rustoleum.  They look AWESOME now.  VERY black, very fresh.  It completely changes the appearance of the van from a very used van, to a newer van.  I also Plastidipped the two rear cargo door windows. I firmly understand the whole appearance thing.  It is foremost in my mind in terms of upgrades.  I do lots of cleaning on it when I am not working.  I have even removed the wheel covers, polished them with rags, and cleaned all inside the wheels.  Even refinished the head lights with a drill pad and lense resurfacer. I do not mean to sound like I am bragging.  I am not happy about having not maintaining my insurance, or being pulled over in any way.  I see it as a failure to maintain stealth, and along with my health, that is my real wealth! As for having 'rights'... You have to know the law, practice the law, and assert yourself as the more knowledgeable party. That is alot easier said than done, but, if you check around online for this topic... You can get out of almost anything but murder if you actaully know the law. But you have to be able to speak it, verbatim, and actually file the papers, or have a friend/lawyer who can. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and sadly, we are all quite ignorant of the invisible shackles we have placed around ourselves.

VanLifeCrisis · Jun 3, 2013

Im curious, are you more likely to say something or check on a nice 'respectable' RV who may be sleeping somewhere, or a person in another/regular vehicle who may be sleeping somewhere?  Is a cop more likely to think the RV 'belongs there'?  This is assuming no one has called for a complaint.

Seraphim · Jun 3, 2013

"Why is it that a police officer asks to search your vehicle usually "after" it's stated by the officer, in one way or another "your free to go"."

Court rulings: if an officer asks you for permission to search during the time frame of a stop, many people may feel they are required to to permit the search. Once the person is told, however, they are free to leave, iand THEN the officer asks permission, it should be obvious tothe driver they can refuse, because he/she has been told they can leave. Designed to protect the driver. Officers are now trained in this manner.

There are also reasonable time limits an officer may detain you to perform a certain transaction. A stop for a speeding ticket, for example, should only take so long. He can't delay the process so as to give a canine unit time to arrive for a sniff search. So again, the driver is told they are free to leave, unless they choose to permit a search, or agree to wait for a canine unit to arrive.

It's SOP to ask the question. Surprising how many people transporting drugs will answer 'yes', because they believe the drugs are well hidden, or they think they will seem suspicious if they say 'no'. But a driver is committed to give a reason why they refuse. A simple 'no' will suffice, and since the officer has told you you're free to leave, you may.

Just don't drive over his toes...

Seraphim · Jun 3, 2013

Creationode

An officer has no idea if you have insurance or not. Even if you present him with a valid insurance card, you could have cancelled it right after receiving your card. Registrations are no longer necessary because everything is now online, and they could also be out of date.

Citations in Ohio now have a block officers check advising if they were shown a valid insurance card. If the blocks not checked, the driver gets a nasty gram from BMV advising them they have 30 days to prove they were insured, or else lose their license and all licens plates.

Seraphim · Jun 3, 2013

Offroad

That 'catch 22'. Is no longer holding up in court - note the comment above above releasing the person before asking, unless there is a reasonable suspicion and which would support asking for permission. If someone called the police, for example, and stated you pointed a gun at them. Then it would be reasonable to ask permission to search your vehicle for a weapon. If you refused, then they might have reason to detain you while they got a search warrant from a judge. Otherwise, they are now required to tell you you are free to go before requesting an unrelated search.

Remember, most stops are now recorded. Can't say every department has the resources, but in my experience most do. Companies which insure departments are start to insist on recordings. We would get into serious trouble if we made a stop and had failed to use the recording equipment. Recordings help determine the truth if it later turns into a disagreement about who said what.

Sorry Grimjack. Didn't meant to jump your thread. Just been presenting the cop POV here for several years. Nice to have someone backing it up, now lol.

Ziggy Moon · Jun 3, 2013

Court rulings: if an officer asks you for permission to search during the time frame of a stop, many people may feel they are required to to permit the search.

@ Seraphim - Thanks for the explanation, I seem to remember hearing that before - guess I didn't remember it. However, with the example given by Grimjack, the one I quoted;

You absolutely have a fourth amendment right that protects you from search and seizure. They can ask all they want, but you can absolutely say no. If you say yes, you can withdraw consent at any time. However remember that little tidbit from earlier about how you have already have broken the law?

It does make it seem like you're being blackmailed. A verbal warning, you're free to go..... but wait! can I search your car, and before you answer, you better remember that I let you slide. No right or wrong here - I just wanted to hear an officers view on my own feelings of this type situation.

wagoneer · Jun 3, 2013

WELCOME INDEED Being a pawnbroker I get a lot of type-casting, like hurling my hand on a paper spike etc. I have always maintained the simple truth of treat people with respect and if you realize they do not deserve this tread cautiously.

Grimjack · Jun 3, 2013

First, thanks for the warm welcome! I really appreciate it.... Ziggy Moon- Most likely an officer will not tell you you are free to go and then ask permission to search your vehicle. I said they would most likely do one of three things. Let you go back to sleep, ask you to move on, or ask to search. A lot really depends on if the officer thinks he will find anything during a search. You get a feel for people who routinely use drugs (what the officer is most likely looking for) Sometimes your wrong, sometimes your right, but I've seen plenty of guys who are right a lot more than they are wrong when they are conducting "criminal profiling" which is what it ends up being... There are sixth methods an officer can get into your car; 1)permission-He asks you say yes. 2)search warrant- A judge has decided that a crime has occurred and there is a strong likelyhood of finding evidence by searching a location. An interesting piece concerning vehicles- Because of the mobile nature of cars the supreme court has decided that is not necessary to obtain a search warrant. The officer only needs to reasonably believe he would be able to obtain one in order to start searching. 3)exigent circumstances-IE-a person will die without his medicine and the officer reasonably believes the medicine is in the car. If he comes up with a kilo of coke it is admissable. 4)probation/parole- you've been bad and let out early or given probation in lieu of jail. You've signed away your rights and can be subject to search at anytime. 5)plain sight-Officer walks buy your car and sees a gun on the floorboard through the window. Officer can break in and secure the gun. And the 6th (and actually only applicable to vehicles) is the inventory search. Officer arrests you for drunk driving and tows your car. An inventory of the entire car can be conducted, and any contraband found is admissable.  Ziggy Moon- I didn't intend to freak you out. In twenty years of police work I've never seen anyone go to jail for living in their car or van. You should also know that most cops are willing to take the path of least resistance, and taking you to jail is not it. Again the key here is not to piss the cop off enough to overcome the inherent laziness. Basically, if the cop asks, "Hey do you mind if I search your car?" Say, "Normally it wouldn't be a problem, but its a mess right now and I really don't feel comfortable letting someone else in it." as opposed to, "I know my rights man. Why don't you go hassle somebody who's really breaking the law! or I pay your taxes pal, leave me alone." A cop needs no reasonable suspicion to ask to search your car. He only needs your permission. Back in the day I always asked for permission, even if I had another avenue to get in. If my  reason to search got thrown out of court, I could always fall back on permission. Hey Seraphim-No thread jumping here....I don't mind at all. multiple perspectives are always preferred.

You and the Police-A Perspective from the Other Side

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