Why in the actual are urine separators so damn expensive?!

[Quilteresq]

Seriously though? Do these things actually wipe your ass for you? I have literally be on the internet for the past hour maybe two trying to look up a clever DIY design for urine separators and have so far dry with the exception of one design that involves cutting a bucket in half but other than that it doesn't make sense to me. Anybody have any clever ideas

I saw a clever design on YouTube - a CANNING funnel. I bought a 5 liter (?) wide mouth juice jar on Amazon from rubbermaid. All I had to d was affix the canning funnel to bottom of the seat, and arrange the height of the juice jar so that the funnel went INSIDE it and stayed there with some wooden support blocks driven into the top of the stand it is on. The juice jar has a lid, so I made a little "shoulder bag" for it, and carry it into gas stations, libraries, stores, etc to empty it. No one is the wiser. Works well.

 

[that420vanchick]

I saw a clever design on YouTube - a CANNING funnel. I bought a 5 liter (?) wide mouth juice jar on Amazon from rubbermaid. All I had to d was affix the canning funnel to bottom of the seat, and arrange the height of the juice jar so that the funnel went INSIDE it and stayed there with some wooden support blocks driven into the top of the stand it is on. The juice jar has a lid, so I made a little "shoulder bag" for it, and carry it into gas stations, libraries, stores, etc to empty it. No one is the wiser. Works well.

Someone else in the thread posted the video! I LOVE this idea! Definitely going this way!!

 

[that420vanchick]

Somewhat OT question, but I'm curious - why are you planning on giving a camping van to someone who doesn't really seem to like camping?

Because he wants it

 

[user 423]

^To sell maybe?

 

[jacqueg]

Because he wants it

Well, of course that raises the next question, but that's OK.

 

[afblangley]

Let me make a case against the urine diverting toilet compared to an everything in one bucket toilet. First, finding places and discreetly emptying a container of urine can be a hassle, especially in urban areas. Second, males have to sit down in order to direct the stream into the funnel area and females have to position their bodies over the correct openings. Third, urine containers can emit odors if not sufficiently sealed. Fourth, a urine diverting toilet has more parts that need cleaning: the funnel, the urine jug. Fifth, having an open bottle of urine sloshing around in a vehicle is not ideal.

I use my van everyday and I hate public bathrooms, so my toilet gets a fair amount of use. The toilet is a 5 gal bucket enclosed in a wood box/ottoman. I use an ordinary kitchen trash bag and line the bottom with 2” of cedar pellets. That’s it. I don’t do anything else other than toss the bag into the trash every 7-10 days. The pellets slowly disintegrate into sawdust as it absorbs the moisture of multiple urine deposits. There is no odor, except of the wood pellets themselves. That's why I choose cedar instead of pine (which is cheaper and just as effective).

I don’t hesitate to poop in my van, but with my usage pattern, it doesn’t happen very often. My toilet box isn’t vented to the outside, so poop will smell, at least until it dries out. I throw extra pellets on top of it to facilitate the process, but I don’t like the idea of driving around with a bucket of crap, so I usually dump it within a few hours of its creation. This isn’t a big deal since I’m rarely more than an hour away from a trash can.

Although I don’t use a pee bottle, I appreciate it's simplicity (and lid). If I boondocked in places where it was appropriate to dump urine on the ground, I’d probably use a pee bottle and reserve the bucket toilet just for poop. I just don’t see the advantage of a urine diverting toilet.

 

[bullfrog]

^^^You apparently don’t know my wife! Lol!!! In remote areas where storing and disposal of trash is a problem a diverter cuts down on the amount you store and carry out. Cedar chips have more surface area but do take up more space, most commercial diverter toilets (way over priced) have a stirring device and a powered vent to take advantage of this to coat solids and speed the drying process. This allows you to store more longer with fewer problems. We have used your method and did fine but did occasionally have smells according to my wife. After we started using a bottle and realized how much bulk was reduced and how much easier it was to transport my wife had difficulty once using a bottle and that resulted in an ultimatum which required a separating toilet. Unlike when my wife and I first met I no longer get pee on my boots helping her squat! Lol!!!

 

[maki2]

Back to the question of why a urine diverter is so expensive. The answer is very simple it lies in the cost of manufacturing small quantities. There is not now or ever likely to be a huge demand for urine diverters.

Making plastic objects in quantity requires the creation of an injection molding tool. First step is creating a 3D model of a part that is of a shape that can be molded. Then a 3D model is made for the steel molding tool the shape will be formed inside of. Then that tooling design gets sent to a that creates a mold to pour molten metal into to create the mold for injecting plastic or blow molding the object into. By then the cost outlay for the company wishing to urine diverters is at least 20k to 30k depending on the size and complexity of the object.

The molding gets done by an outside firm that has the equipment to heat the plastic materials to the needed temperature to liquify it and then under pressure push it through injection port openings into the heated mold. Then after a cooling the part is removed from the mold and sent to a team that removed injectio pin nubs and removed burring to create smooth edges. Cost of that molded part depends on size, complexity, type of plastic and a great big one… quantity.

That comes to the bottom line which is quantity. There is not enough demand for diverters now or likely any time in the near future to make them cost affordable because the cost of producing them is not affordable. Funnels are cheap because there is a demand for them in most households. A firm can manufacture a thousand funnels or more funnels in the time it takes to 3D print a single diverter.

How do I know this stuff? Because I have spent years working with a product designer who works with people who hire him to do the design work for making molded plastic parts. I have also worked,!through a temp agency, as a lead in a company that does injected plastic molding. I came in to help them with a special project they were doing for Boeing that had to meet Boeing specifications and I had worked for Boeing so knew what was needed.

I have also done 3D printing.

Manufacturing lesson over. Conclusion restated again…Urine diverters are expensive because they are expensive to make as there is no demand for large quantity. Large quantity production is what lowers the cost to produce an item.

 

[user 423]

The original question was mainly if anyone had ideas to make cheaper alternatives.

 

[that420vanchick]

Well, of course that raises the next question, but that's OK.

Which next question?

 

[that420vanchick]

^To sell maybe?

If that's what he wants to do

Let me make a case against the urine diverting toilet compared to an everything in one bucket toilet. First, finding places and discreetly emptying a container of urine can be a hassle, especially in urban areas. Second, males have to sit down in order to direct the stream into the funnel area and females have to position their bodies over the correct openings. Third, urine containers can emit odors if not sufficiently sealed. Fourth, a urine diverting toilet has more parts that need cleaning: the funnel, the urine jug. Fifth, having an open bottle of urine sloshing around in a vehicle is not ideal.

I use my van everyday and I hate public bathrooms, so my toilet gets a fair amount of use. The toilet is a 5 gal bucket enclosed in a wood box/ottoman. I use an ordinary kitchen trash bag and line the bottom with 2” of cedar pellets. That’s it. I don’t do anything else other than toss the bag into the trash every 7-10 days. The pellets slowly disintegrate into sawdust as it absorbs the moisture of multiple urine deposits. There is no odor, except of the wood pellets themselves. That's why I choose cedar instead of pine (which is cheaper and just as effective).

I don’t hesitate to poop in my van, but with my usage pattern, it doesn’t happen very often. My toilet box isn’t vented to the outside, so poop will smell, at least until it dries out. I throw extra pellets on top of it to facilitate the process, but I don’t like the idea of driving around with a bucket of crap, so I usually dump it within a few hours of its creation. This isn’t a big deal since I’m rarely more than an hour away from a trash can.

Although I don’t use a pee bottle, I appreciate it's simplicity (and lid). If I boondocked in places where it was appropriate to dump urine on the ground, I’d probably use a pee bottle and reserve the bucket toilet just for poop. I just don’t see the advantage of a urine diverting toilet.

Smell for one, having the ability to compost is another good reason, not having to spend the money on cedar or some other medium.... I use compostable bags in my bucket currently and pee in a bottle. I'm one of those gals that doesn't mind roughing it though, small percentage of us out there. I plan to install a drain tube for pee too that will drain from the van straight outside which will make pit stops so much easier. When I eventually sell the van or give it to my son and he sells it I want to be sure it's cozy for the Babylonians too, increase that value a ton

 

[maki2]

I plan to install a drain tube for pee too that will drain from the van straight outside which will make pit stops so much easier.

Not a good option, most especially if you stay in one place for more than a hit and run event. Your urine order will come wafting back into your vehicle. All concepts for a Van build require analytical thinking through of what happens as a consequence of a build feature. In this case you need to stick to standard compost toilet design with a removable jug that can be emptied at a distance away from campsites and locations other people might park in. Good manners on the road are important, it is not all about personal convenience. Do you want to park where someone has just taken a piss and track it into your vehicle? No of course not, so do not install that feature. It will not increase resale value, people will think it’s gross behavior, because it is.

 

[bullfrog]

In my years of trucking one of the memories I least cherish is walking across sticky urine smelling parking lots at truck stops. In years of changing tires that people and dogs urinate on I cringed to watch the “new kid” put a valve cap in his lips when he needed both hands with no where to set it while he worked. Watching National Geo films where tribal mothers washed their babies with urine because drought was killing them are also one of my least favorite memories as well. My conclusion is this. The solution to pollution is dilution. I doubt there are any surfaces on this earth that have not been urinated or dedicated on by something at one time or another. Put urine where it will do no harm as it does attract insects and other animals until it is diluted and pray for rain is the best I can come up with!

 

[user 423]

It's gonna have a tank like any other toilet...

Then what do you mean by...."I plan to install a drain tube for pee too that will drain from the van straight outside which will make pit stops so much easier?"

 

[that420vanchick]

In my years of trucking one of the memories I least cherish is walking across sticky urine smelling parking lots at truck stops. In years of changing tires that people and dogs urinate on I cringed to watch the “new kid” put a valve cap in his lips when he needed both hands with no where to set it while he worked. Watching National Geo films where tribal mothers washed their babies with urine because drought was killing them are also one of my least favorite memories as well. My conclusion is this. The solution to pollution is dilution. I doubt there are any surfaces on this earth that have not been urinated or dedicated on by something at one time or another. Put urine where it will do no harm as it does attract insects and other animals until it is diluted and pray for rain is the best I can come up with!

Worth noting that urine is sterile too but mix it with poo and eewee

 

[that420vanchick]

Then what do you mean by...."I plan to install a drain tube for pee too that will drain from the van straight outside which will make pit stops so much easier?"

I mean exactly that it's going to go outside into what you would call a black water container if we were talking about a standard toilet but in this case I guess it's a pee water container. What's got you so scared of urine though? It isn't a pollutant it doesn't cause any harm to the environment it's just pee, it's factually sterile too so there's that.... Animals put theirs on the ground all day long. To be completely honest the only reason the tubes going to go into a container is to prevent any bugs from coming up into my van not so much the pee from hitting the ground where he has historically always ended up

 

[maki2]

Taking a pee container out of a composting toilet to empty it into an RV sanitation is going to be less time consuming than having a drain tube. The drain tube will need to be a threaded fitting under the van due to gravity for drainage and it must have a flow shut off valve and a cap. (The alternative to gravity drain involves adding a pump.) A detachable hose will screw onto that fitting. That hose will of course have to be rinsed after use by pouring water into the urine diverter. Then caps placed on both ends of the detachable hose before storing it away.

You are talking about a one gallon or so sized container for the urine as their is not a lot of room for a larger sized container in a composting toilet setup unless you add a waste holding tank under the van. Make the urine container easy to remove and replace. It will be faster to empty than using an external waste fitting with flow control valve and a hose that needs attaching, detaching, cleaning and storing.

A walk through a nursing home or city alleyway will be proof enough that “sterile urine” is not odor free. Neither are the pants of a young child who did not get to the bathroom on time and peed their pants. Not sure where the myth that urine is odor free originated.

 

[user 423]

I mean exactly that it's going to go outside into what you would call a black water container if we were talking about a standard toilet but in this case I guess it's a pee water container. What's got you so scared of urine though?

Oh okay. I read it to mean it would go out to the ground. Scared of urine? Not at all. I just wasn't clear on what you meant.

 

[that420vanchick]

K! Thanks for stopping by!

 

[that420vanchick]

Taking a pee container out of a composting toilet to empty it into an RV sanitation is going to be less time consuming than having a drain tube. The drain tube will need to be a threaded fitting under the van due to gravity for drainage and it must have a flow shut off valve and a cap. (The alternative to gravity drain involves adding a pump.) A detachable hose will screw onto that fitting. That hose will of course have to be rinsed after use by pouring water into the urine diverter. Then caps placed on both ends of the detachable hose before storing it away.

You are talking about a one gallon or so sized container for the urine as their is not a lot of room for a larger sized container in a composting toilet setup unless you add a waste holding tank under the van. Make the urine container easy to remove and replace. It will be faster to empty than using an external waste fitting with flow control valve and a hose that needs attaching, detaching, cleaning and storing.

A walk through a nursing home or city alleyway will be proof enough that “sterile urine” is not odor free. Neither are the pants of a young child who did not get to the bathroom on time and peed their pants. Not sure where the myth that urine is odor free originated.

This is the first time anyone said urine was odor free and it came out of your post so I'm not sure either. I said it's sterile that has nothing to do with odor but thanks for stopping by anyway! Great talk