Which Vehicle to Choose for Forest Road Boondocking?

[rruff]

I my self want to overland at times. So I am looking at 11 inches of ground clearance.

I don't know what the ground clearance was on my 2wd Toyota pickup, but I know it wasn't much... with stock size tires and no suspension upgrade when I started. I just bounced over the rocks... and if you looked under my truck, it was exactly as you'd expect! Covered with dents large and small. Everything... the frame, engine and transmission, oil pan and gas tank, etc. None of that ever caused a failure though... I think I was lucky!

With the bigger tires I guess my Tundra has 12 inches, but there are still plenty of opportunities to damage things on rocks.

 

[bullfrog]

I believe on my stock 2013 Tacoma 4x4 ground clearance was 9", the distance between front and rear axles makes a difference when going over obstacles. It was able to pull a small square drop trailer over most if not all established BLM area roads in good weather. Shorter distance wheel bases make it easier in many cases to clear obstacles , but can make it more likely to flip on steep grades. On my Suzuki Samurai the low point of the skid plate on the differential is 9" off the ground and the low point on the frame is 14" and with it's short wheel base it is very capable. Any time you suspension lift a vehicle you affect reliability in my opinion. Even putting larger tires on to gain ground clearance can drastically change things for the worse. You have to determine what is most important to you and how much you will spend to do it. Traveling with a second vehicle so you can safely get stuck and unstuck while slowly determining where you can go without damage to your stock vehicle by simply doing things like lowering tire pressure and perfecting driving techniques may be your best choice. A good 12 volt air compressor, a tire deflation tool, a tire plug kit and a shovel would be my first purchases. Choosing a tire with the correct tread for the surface I most drive on can really make a difference on a stock vehicle. An electronic rear locker would be my first choice of an accessory if buying a vehicle whether new or used, 2 or 4 wheel drive. They make lift kits for almost everything now even Prius and Subaru but they come with a cost.

 

[AmargosaWayne]

On some Forest roads maintenance is not feasible. The roads exist to allow fire crews access.

They are usually clearly marked as not suitable for anything other than high clearance 4WD vehicles.

They may be further marked by the under body parts left behind by someone who didn't get it.

 

[Malamute]

The actual clearance numbers are OK, but Id suggest not a mandatory number unless one is not paying any attention to where they are driving. Ive driven some wicked rocky roads by knowing where my diffs were (front and rear were usually offset in older 4wd rigs), how to run my wheel tracks over certain things and just picking good lines. Some clearance is needed, however, people regularly drive cars in places they really shouldnt, but get away with it by knowing how to drive on bad roads.

Im appalled by the way some people drive on rough roads, basically ignoring potholes, ruts, and rocks, just blindly driving forward, pretty well tearing up their vehicle in the process. Front end steering parts, suspensions, and all sorts of odds and ends get pounded hard by such mistreatment. Yes, theres unavoidable things at times, but Ive seen many that simply ignore the road conditions and blast forward not caring or knowing. Washboards are very hard on vehicles, and are often unavoidable, holes, rocks, ruts and other things are often quite avoidable by focused attention to the road surface and picking good lines to drive. Knowing how fast or slow to go for the conditions is another aspect often not mentioned.

I rode my old H-D motorcycle on some pretty rough stuff in Arizona in both the swingarm frame and the hardtail frame by picking careful lines of travel and knowing what I could clear and what I couldnt. There was often a good line that avoided most serious obstacles. With the fork tubes (4" over the old FLH length) I put on it when I built it I could clear city curbs or regular parking blocks without issue, and i could generally find that level of minimum clearance line to get through rough spots

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Apologies if this was mentioned before.
Your skill level in navigating off highway makes a huge difference in what vehicle will work for you. I took a stock Subaru Forester all the places I wanted to go in Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho.
Also your skill in self rescue when you do get in a little too deep. I've had to help un-stuck a few 4X4s to continue on my journey in the Subie.

 

[Malamute]

Apologies if this was mentioned before.
Your skill level in navigating off highway makes a huge difference in what vehicle will work for you. I took a stock Subaru Forester all the places I wanted to go in Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho.
Also your skill in self rescue when you do get in a little too deep. I've had to help un-stuck a few 4X4s to continue on my journey in the Subie.

Ha Ha!!... I mean, yeah, one can get pretty stuck out there.....

I was stuck so many times i cant even remember. I think the longest self rescue took about 6 hours. A few required help. It was educational. I added tools, like high lift jack, come-a-long hand winch, long handle round point shovel, a stack of 2x6 boards to help gain height for the hydraulic bottle jack or for a better base for the high lift in mud or snow, tow chains, later replaced by tow straps, heavy duty tire chains. One time required a chain saw.

I perhaps had an over developed sense of adventure at the time, that tended to fade out after a while, its been a very long time since Ive been stuck when out adventuring. One learns what you can and cannot do. The lessens were hard, but I dont think Id trade them for anything.

 

[DannyB1954]

Pickup pulling a small trailer is my vote. Most have good ground clearance from the factory and you can put a shell on the back. 4WD is a plus, but keep in mind if you are not traveling with others and you brake down, tow trucks will often not leave county maintained roads to come get you.
Old saying if you want to get stuck and stranded go off road. If you really want to get very stuck and stranded go off road with 4WD.
The logic is having 4WD can get you into very bad places. You get over confident.

 

[LargeMarge]

Newbie here. For that last few years I was under the illusion that I might be able to modify my 2006 Honda Odyssey to make it up nasty forest service roads like those in Montana. I have been trying to raise it up to 8 inches clearance from a measly 4 inches. I gather from talking to my mechanic, the dealer and Les Schwab this isn't a good plan. So I am going to start afresh with my vehicle living platform. I don't plan on doing serious off-roading. I would say my budget is very limited, but I could scrape 30k together with solar and everything. I ponder truck campers vs vans. I wonder about the necessity of 4WD, gas mileage, reliability and cost. Does anyone have advice on where to start or what questions to ask myself?

.
Our full-time live-aboard -- 1996 Ford CF8000 4x2 commercial truck converted in 2003 to our concept of an ExpeditionVehicle.
.
a)
The standard wheels/tires for rigs this GVWR -- 22.5.
That gave us around fourteen inches (14"/35cm) ground-clearance.
A couple-three years ago, we switched to 24.5 wheels with high-profile tires.
We specified 'logger lugs' with massive depth of tread.
Our new ground-clearance -- 16"/41cm.
.
b)
Nearly two decades full-time live-aboard.
Summers up rough logger tracks to remote mountain lakes.
Winters on isolated Baja beaches.
.
In all those miles, we were stuck twice...
...both times, on the farm we workkamp near the outskirts of Eugene, Oregon.
In our defense, pretty much the entire Willamette Valley is swamp half the year.
.
Will you full-time live-aboard your vehicle?
If so, you probably need:
" recovery gear,
* medical gear,
* cook gear,
* clothes for variations of weather in any one day.
.
If this is a week-ender, you probably could get by with less.
.
Irregardless, unless you prefer solitude, your caravan chums probably ought to be similarly equipped.
.
c)
Fuel mileage?
Although our rig is 14,000# across the scale, our fuel mileage is a very minor part of our budget.
How?
We travel maybe a hundred miles a month.
.
d)
Modifications/Conversion:
We recommend acquiring a likely candidate, toss in some car-camping gear, go have fun.
Allow the conversion to evolve organically.
.
We guarantee you will begin with great kit... and too much of it.
As you gain experience and skills, you probably will donate more and more stuff to the give-away pile.

 

[dhuff]

$500 nonrefundable deposit to get on a wait list.
Currently:
"Earliest completion date: February 2023"

Yep. Of course, you shouldn't join a wait list unless you're serious. They are, after all, trying to run a business. A small, family-run business which by the completion date estimates is quite busy. This is no different than any other camper-building concern I've seen. These things are just very popular right now.

They have plenty of info on their website and their Youtube chan. to satisfy people who are "just browsing."

 

[mtm12345]

As some have mentioned, you should ponder SUVs as well. When I was looking for a friend recently the best deals seemed to be on older Toyota Sequoias. They have outstanding reliability and longevity; if you get one that has been well cared for and not too many miles, you'll be in great shape. Make a high-top out of plywood, and you'll have some room as well.

2wd is fine. You probably wouldn't believe all the places I went in a 2wd Toyota pickup... But I would recommend a small lift and bigger tires, a regear, and a locker with 2wd. You'll have good traction then, and won't beat up the undercarriage too bad.

The old style vans like the Express/Savana and E series Fords are fine and will give you more room... better than the new style unibody low-clearance vans.

I have thought about Sequoias. I never thought of putting a

An older Ford Econoline with RWD does OK for me and I've taken it over some pretty rough roads to remote locations. A van is preferred by some people over a truck camper because if you needed to drive away in an emergency it can be done without exiting the vehicle. Although I guess some larger campers do have access from truck cab to living area.

4WD is great when you need it but to me it just adds complexity and the potential for higher repair costs. Also probably a little less overall MPG when compared to the same 2WD vehicle. The best vehicle for a person depends a lot on their travel plans. I'm wanting a 3/4-ton pickup and a converted cargo trailer + small motorcycle for the 14 day stays in varied locations.

plywood top on one. That would be a pretty good idea. I am interested to hear an old van can work with 2 Wheel Drive. I wonder if anyone has recommendations for the best years to look for the best model for old vans?

 

[mtm12345]

These are available with a good, basic build-out + powertrain maint items performed, lifts, and all terrain tires from Suboverland at a price under the orig poster's limit. https://www.suboverland.com/

I had never heard of this company. I checked out the site and the you videos. Very impressive! I never dreamed I could get everything for 20K and not have to do it myself. I will have to really consider it carefully with the $500 non-refundable deposit and the wait time.

 

[cortttt]

Despite having an extended van ground clearance hasn't been that big of a problem. I've been up some really rocky roads but when they get too bad I steer clear. I have been hung up a couple of times on rocks but mostly get stuck in sand or sometimes in mud. I've gotten stuck many times (lol) but less over time as I get smarter. As I've gotten smarter by recoveries have gotten quicker and less challenging.

I've had to be pulled out three times - twice in deep sand and once in the forest. The last was in Anza Borrego where I got stuck in deep sand and a guy in a totally impressive jeep winched me out. His only concern that the van was too heavy and was going to pull him in.

One issue with this van and its 4.8L engine is low torque - it just cannot power up steep dirt hills. I remember going down in this little valley between two high hills way out in the desert and just praying it was going to make it up the other side. Another time I made it 2/3rds up a hill in Colorado and had to inch back down a steep incline backwards.This problem happens quite infrequently but the next van or truck will have more torque.

Over time I've added all sorts of recovery gear. After every serious recovery I've reassessed and added more. There's the hi-lift jack with the attachment to life from the wheel (which smacked me in the jaw once during one epic recovery effort) to a Pro-Eagle jack (my current favorite but which failed on its second recovery and was replaced by the company) to an exhaust jack - which is kind of amazing and works well in many but not all conditions.

I don't know if it's the van's weight but both the hi-lift and the Pro-eagle broke at one time or another - and lead me to be sure to have at least one backup.

I used the hi-lift as a winch once - it took all my strength to move the van up a small incline - and will probably not do that again.

I carry three sets of traction boards which is probably overkill but I got the 3rd set after one of them was cracking and I was afraid it was going to go. I prefer two sets at least as that extra set really helps get the van moving.

The van works well for now. I think a pickup with a small trailer or an SUV would do well as well. The nice thing about the pickups and the SUV's are the easy availability of 4wd. I had a 4Runner 2WD and it was a great car but I would not buy one now unless it had 4wd given how helpful that would be.

 

[cortttt]

.
Our full-time live-aboard -- 1996 Ford CF8000 4x2 commercial truck converted in 2003 to our concept of an ExpeditionVehicle.
.
a)
The standard wheels/tires for rigs this GVWR -- 22.5.
That gave us around fourteen inches (14"/35cm) ground-clearance.
A couple-three years ago, we switched to 24.5 wheels with high-profile tires.
We specified 'logger lugs' with massive depth of tread.
Our new ground-clearance -- 16"/41cm.
.
b)
Nearly two decades full-time live-aboard.
Summers up rough logger tracks to remote mountain lakes.
Winters on isolated Baja beaches.
.
In all those miles, we were stuck twice...
...both times, on the farm we workkamp near the outskirts of Eugene, Oregon.
In our defense, pretty much the entire Willamette Valley is swamp half the year.
.
Will you full-time live-aboard your vehicle?
If so, you probably need:
" recovery gear,
* medical gear,
* cook gear,
* clothes for variations of weather in any one day.
.
If this is a week-ender, you probably could get by with less.
.
Irregardless, unless you prefer solitude, your caravan chums probably ought to be similarly equipped.
.
c)
Fuel mileage?
Although our rig is 14,000# across the scale, our fuel mileage is a very minor part of our budget.
How?
We travel maybe a hundred miles a month.
.
d)
Modifications/Conversion:
We recommend acquiring a likely candidate, toss in some car-camping gear, go have fun.
Allow the conversion to evolve organically.
.
We guarantee you will begin with great kit... and too much of it.
As you gain experience and skills, you probably will donate more and more stuff to the give-away pile.

Quite the vehicle! And only stuck twice on your way to remote mountain lakes. Nice I agree - if you only travel a hundred miles a month gas isn't much of an issue.

 

[user 423]

I am interested to hear an old van can work with 2 Wheel Drive. I wonder if anyone has recommendations for the best years to look for the best model for old vans?

It works as long as you don't get too wild in your adventuring. They have decent ground clearance and as long as you have good tires, watch the weight distribution and driving line, you're good.

My van is a '93 and had just 114k miles on it 4 years ago when I bought it. It works for me because I'm able to do most of the mechanical work on it. If you have to pay mechanics to keep an older vehicle going, it can be very expensive. It's usually recommended that you buy the newest van you can afford if you're not a mechanic.

It's possible to find good older vans with lower mileage but it's a crap shoot,really. All older 2WD American vans are basically reliable but each brand will have specific problems. For Ford it was problems with spark plugs in some engines from about '97 to '07. Older Dodges it was rust and bad OD transmissions. Chevy is probably the best overall.

 

[LargeMarge]

re -- stuck
.
I ought to clarify.
Nearly two decades full-time live-aboard, travel across the entire New World, remote mountain lakes and isolated Baja beaches.
.
The two times we got stuck were on the farm we workkamp, near the outskirts of Eugene, Oregon.
.
An aside:
In our defense, pretty much the entire Willamette Valley of Oregon is a swamp half the year.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

If 4wd is super important to you and you want to balance gas mileage with that, I'd recommend a Japanese Import.
Either a Mitsubishi Delica mini van or an older Subaru with the longer body.
I had several Legacy Outbacks in the mid 2000's to mid 2010's.
They dont get exceptional gas mileage but they get better mileage than a van or truck.
The AWD on these works great. I traveled all over California and Oregon. Stayed at a lot of campgrounds, BLM land and national forests. Lots of gravel roads, fire roads etc. Not a ton of room in either a Delica or Legacy/Outback. I was cramped as a 6 foot guy in the 2 buck club. But I made it work.

Also be aware that 4WD, bigger tires and lifting will reduce your mileage. So maybe balance how much you really expect to go offroad vs how you like the idea of it but are mostly just gonna be on black top with maybe an occasional jaunt down a dirt road to a campsite.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

It works as long as you don't get too wild in your adventuring. They have decent ground clearance and as long as you have good tires, watch the weight distribution and driving line, you're good.

My van is a '93 and had just 114k miles on it 4 years ago when I bought it. It works for me because I'm able to do most of the mechanical work on it. If you have to pay mechanics to keep an older vehicle going, it can be very expensive. It's usually recommended that you buy the newest van you can afford if you're not a mechanic.

It's possible to find good older vans with lower mileage but it's a crap shoot,really. All older 2WD American vans are basically reliable but each brand will have specific problems. For Ford it was problems with spark plugs in some engines from about '97 to '07. Older Dodges it was rust and bad OD transmissions. Chevy is probably the best overall.

I see a lot of Chevy/GMC vans with rust and peeling paint. I respect them mechanically but there is something going on with a lot of fleet vans having those rust streaks after only a few years on the road.