Which battery is best?

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mjalar51

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We are putting  together a new solar system for our van. 

Have ordered a kit with 2-100w solar panels and 40 amp MPPT controller from Renogy.

Thing we need to power:

  1. 45 qt Whynter 12v refrigerator
  2. 4 LED fixtures, about 4w each
  3. small maybe 15" TV/DVD combo
  4. 1 laptop to charge
  5. couple of cell phones to charge
  6. maybe a 12v hot pot, occasional use
Would a single 12v 100AH deep cycle battery be enough to start?
I like the idea of an AGM battery that is sealed and requires no maintenance, especially if it is installed inside.
Amazon has one for around $180 here

Any advice, opinions are appreciated.
 
The amount of time you use the laptop can make or break your intended system, as will the amount and duration of sunlight hitting those panels.

The Hotpot could also be a deal breaker.

AGMS enjoy higher recharging rates than their flooded counterparts.  It is practically a requirement that they occasionally recieve a higher amp recharge rate every 5 to 7 deep cycles.

  Some AGM's are limited to 30 amps per 100Ah of capacity, but they still enjoy charging rates upto these levels when the battery is at its most depleted, and the alternator is the easiest way to achieve these rates and solar is great for attaining the regular 100% charge afterwards, as getting from 80% to 100% charged takes about 4 hours, no matter how powerful the charging source might be.

One can skip the alternator recharging, at the cost of battery life.  How much is the variable and will be different for each battery in each system in each usage.

The deeper the discharge cycle, the more important it becomes to be able to satisfy the AGM's greedy need to be high amp recharged regularly.

AGMS tend to get painted with super battery status due to their price, but really they are more finicky and get all petulant when their desires are not met.  It is more important to recharge a AGM battery to 100% ASAP, as often as possible than it is with a flooded/wet battery, as partial state of charge cycling is harder on an AGM battery, and they cannot be equalized like a flooded battery can, which is like a slap across the face to a capacity compromised flooded battery.

The Lesser$ AGM batteries are generally those with a 30%( 30 amps per 100AH of capacity) upper limits on Charging amps.  A thickly wired alternator CAN easily exceed this.

The Higher$$ AGM batteries like Odyssey, Northstar, and Lifeline have no Limits on Charging amps,  they can accept 500 amps into a 100AH battery.  These batteries absolutely require high amp recharges when deeply cycled though and as such do not make great solar only recharge batteries.

Lifeline says 20% minimum when deeply cycled.  Odyssey says 40%.  Northstar is more vague as to their minimum charge amps, but mine appears to behave significantly better the higher amperage I can muster.

Keep in mind these recommendations are for 'Ideal' battery longevity.  One can and likely should seek less than ideal just for $anity's sake and just plan on replacing the battery more often.

But at the opposite end, an AGM battery, or any lead acid battery can fail to yield acceptable lifespan if it never gets what it wants and is chronically undercharged.  Achieving 100% regularly is the key.  How 100% is achieved for best longevity is a grey area and will be different in each system/usage, and with each battery brand, and can only be definitively determined by the user, and only when it comes time to replace the battery, whenever that might be.
 
My two wally world batteries have been doing double duty in the camper and pontoon.I think I might buy a couple of of those cheap Powertron batteries for the camper just to try them out.
 
In my opinion, LiFePO4 is the best option for a boondocker. Since you need half as many amp-hours as AGM or FLA, the cost is comparable to a high-end AGM, but they should last 2-4 times as long and there is no need for high-current charging. FLA is cheaper up-front, but you will be paying with your time to check them monthly. You also get more usable energy from your solar panels or generator. You do need to treat them differently.
 
One of the key issues is WHEN will you use the item? During a sunny day if you charge everything during the day you won't pull much off the battery at night so 100 ah will probably be fine. In the winter I turn my fridge off at night and only have it come on during the day. In the summer I set the thermostat up to 40 at night and at 33 during the day.

The only thing you'll use a lot at night will be the LEDs and they are nothing and the TV. I'd guess the TV draws less than 2 amps and the DVD does't draw much.

I think you'll be okay. But, having said that if it were me I'd still get a pair of golf carts. Put them in a sealed box if you're worried about off-gassing.
Bob
 
blars said:
In my opinion, LiFePO4 is the best option for a boondocker.  Since you need half as many amp-hours as AGM or FLA, the cost is comparable to a high-end AGM, but they should last 2-4 times as long and there is no need for high-current charging.  FLA is cheaper up-front, but you will be paying with your time to check them monthly.  You also get more usable energy from your solar panels or generator.  You do need to treat them differently.


It isn't there yet.   Until you can walk into a local marine, auto or RV store and pick up a 12V LiFePO4 fully contained battery with all of the built in safeguards and 1 to 3 year warranty, it will just be a thing for tinkerers and early adopters.

When you see a 12V LiFePO4 at Costco or Walmart, then we will have arrived at it being the best option. 

Who wants to spend $600 on a battery and have to ship it back to China?

Also I debate the cost being comparable to a high-end AGM.   Lifeline is one of the best and a 12V 125AH Lifeline AGM is around $330 with free shipping.   You get about 1000 cycle life if you use it down to 50%, so you have 60 usable amp-hrs.   A four cell LiFePO4 that is drained to 10% and charged to 90% has 80% usable and you would thus need around 75AH to be equivalent.   But call it 60 just to make things easy.

Four 60AH 3.2V LiFePO4 cells from China are about $350 plus shipping.   Then you need connecting copper bars and a BMS and a case to keep them from swelling...
 
I agree with IGBT on this, while LiFePO4 might be the future, I don't believe the future is here now. highdesertranger
 
The only reasons LiFePO4 need safeguards are to avoid being treated like a lead-acid (by overcharging) or for extremely high-current situations like an electric vehicle. The case is only needed in the latter.
The LiFePO4 will maintain higher voltage, so power per amp-hour is higher. Are you ever going to draw more than the 20-hour rate? Drop the capacity of the lead-acid then. (That's 6.25 amps instintainious peak on the 125Ah.) You do need a few dollars worth of copper to hook up the LiFePO4 -- I used copper tubing.

$308+shipping seems fair to me for 60 Ah of LiFePO4, but they don't have US stock. $448 for 100 Ah with US stock (in UT) is available.

I've got a 5-year warantee on my LiFePO4 from a US company, but I don't expect to need it. (They no longer publish cell prices online, so I didn't use them in the comparison.)
 
But Blars, you are not talking to electronic wizards on here.   I have a EE degree and even then I am skeptical about the long term reliability of LiFePO4 cells, especially when I read the Chinglish data sheet with missing numbers and poor spelling.   I compare that with the reams of data that Lifeline supplies with their batteries.

For instance, the CALB cells, one of the most popular, list a lifetime of 2000 cycles with a discharge less than 0.3C.   At 60 amp-hr that means you would need to keep the discharge under 18 amps.

How do you run a microwave on 12V at 18 amps?   I regularly pull 70 amps out of my Lifelines without complaint.   Lifeline says this will not hurt the cycle life but the one page Chinglish data sheet on the CALB cells does not give me any further information.   It does say you can go to 10c for 10 seconds.

Like I said, they may be good for tinkerers or early adopters, but certainly not for the majority of the van dwelling crowd.
 
The general rule of thumb is to have the total wattage of the panels approximately equal to the total amp hours of your batteries. So either your proposed system has more solar panels than you need or less battery than you could be charging.
 
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