Water Heaters + Wire = Ugh!

[MacGyver]

I’ve been having a lot of trouble with the latest upgrade to our main trailer. I installed a Girard on-demand water heater to allow all of us to shower quickly and comfortably, but our trailer seems to strongly dislike the electrical side of it.

After much confusion, I’ve been able to pick out these issues so far:

• when the battery is unplugged and the water heater is on, the fridge freaks out, and all lights blink
• when the battery is plugged in, the fridge works, but blinks the AC and Battery lights. The water heater control panel flashes off and on over and over
• If I turn on the bathroom fan, the panel stays on and detects water flow but the water heater wont fire
• If the trailer is unplugged from shore power and running on 12 volt only, the water heater functions perfectly
• When the old water heater was in, there was no problem with the fridge or heater even if the battery was off and the fridge never flashed.

I’ve had a couple people suggest the converter in our RV might be bad, but we never had trouble with it before this new installation. The technical manual for this water heater notes that older trailers may need to bypass the converter and wire through the battery to use it as a capacitor, but gives no instructions regarding how to do this.
I didn’t think that would be necessary as this trailer is a 1997 Dutchmen. I was wondering if, since the trailer seems OK as long as the water heater isn’t conn acted to the trailers power system, if I could connect the water heater directly to a 12 volt battery and connect the battery to a solar trickle charger so it has its own power system. Or, is rewiring the water heater through the battery would be best, or if our converter is in fact bad. It seems as if the 110 volt and 12 volt systems are crossing, since at times even the air conditioner will make the water heater control panel respond for a few seconds when its turned on.

My specialty is carpentry, and the only thing I know even less about than plumbing is electrical.

Any of you here who know more about power in RVs and their systems, I would really appreciate any thoughts you have. I haven't heard any reports of things this weird happening over the many videos I've seen regarding installing this unit.

Thanks again!

 

[highdesertranger]

sounds like something is crossed somewhere. couple of questions,

you said,
"•when the battery is unplugged "
why is the battery unplugged. the battery should never be unplugged, especially from the solar. this could be pointing towards a bad converter.
what's the output of the converter with the battery unplugged and plugged in?
is this an old dumb converter? or a newer smart converter?
have you tried to connect the water heater straight to the battery?
if the water heater is unplugged does everything work correctly?
highdesertranger

 

[MacGyver]

I should have been more specific about the battery. When we first started using the RV, it didn't have a battery. When the water heater acted up, we purchased one as some people said it may be needed for the converter to balance power output. Also, during the tests, I was disabling the battery using a battery disconnect switch that was on the RV, not actually unplugging it.

I haven't tried connecting the water heater directly to the battery, that was part of my question, if I should or not. Is it possible for it to run off the battery directly as a permanent solution?

I believe it's a current style converter, a Magnetek Power Plus 45 Amp.

I'm not sure what the outputs are, I don't have the equipment to test electrical stuff

If the water heater is unplugged, there aren't any issues aside from the refrigerator lights for "AC" and "Battery" Flashing like I mentioned. there aren't any functional issues though.

Also I wanted to clarify, when you said "especially from the solar" that sounded like you might think we have solar. I was asking if a battery and solar trickle charger are an option, but we don't have solar at the moment.

Thanks!

 

[highdesertranger]

yes run the water heater straight to the battery if that fixes it. don't forget to fuse at the battery.

so was the battery missing, when you got the RV?
it's not a good idea to run RV systems without a battery even though the converter is supposed to be regulated.
you need to get a meter and learn how to use it. we will help you out. right now we need some readings from the converter both with the battery connected and disconnected. it appears your converter is an old dump converter. highdesertranger

 

[MacGyver]

Yep, the battery was gone when we got the RV. It had been used without it for some time.

Ok, I'll be picking up a meter and will get back here when I do.

Thank you so much! We're getting happier about our choice to full time as time goes on, especially after finding s community.

Thanks again!

 

[highdesertranger]

good for you MacGyver. knowledge is a good thing, we will help you. highdesertranger

 

[MacGyver]

on my way to work, will be back with the meter

 

[B and C]

My Roadtrek came with one of those Magnetek converter/chargers. It boiled the battery dry in under two months of being plugged into shore power 24/7 awaiting our departure (ruined the battery). It is not regulated AFAIK (sounds like HDR may have a better handle on that). Don't think it is even a two stage charger. There is a direct replacement for it made by Progressive Dynamics. Get the 45 amp version as that is what your existing one is. These work great and all 12V circuits are filtered for noise too. I changed mine out when I found the ruined battery and did some research on it. My PD has been working great for over three years now on a gently used set of AGM batteries.

 

[highdesertranger]

I had to look it up, it is an old dumb converter, no stages. these will in fact ruin your battery one way of another. they either under charge or over charge. highdesertranger

 

[Weight]

Get rid of the converter and get a decent 3 stage battery charger. I pick ProNauticP as a brand. Take your loads from the battery and let the shore charge the battery. Then hurry to get solar.

 

[MacGyver]

I have the Multimeter now and have a decent idea on using it. How should I test the output of the cover term as suggested before?

Thanks again!

I just disconnected our new battery to protect it after your comments, hopefully this gets resolved soon

 

[highdesertranger]

plug your RV in to shore power and check the output of the converter with the battery connected and disconnected. you won't hurt your battery if you only leave it hooked up to get a reading. let us know what you get. highdesertranger

 

[MacGyver]

Hi again! That’s actually what I was asking, where to take the reading from. I can’t find any information about trading the output from the converter online

 

[highdesertranger]

I would start with taking the reading at the battery cables. highdesertranger

 

[MacGyver]

Oh OK! I did that already. I got 13.5 Volts with battery, and 13.5 volts shore power hooked to battery