Transmission Trouble in SD

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Hey ya’ll. Van broke down off Interstate 90 near Wall, SD. Something inside manual transmission won’t let me get into any gear. Clutch works fine, just no gears but grinding noise. Tearing into it now on the side of the road. Just wondering if anyone is local that can either help, offer a patch of dirt, or have any recommendations.

 

[crofter]

Wall has free ice water, remember the place well. That's all I got.
-crofter

 

[vgilbert]

Hello,
Had a new tranny put in over the winter, Aamco did me more than right!! maybe one close??

 

[bullfrog]

Can you shift it into gear while the engine is shut off?

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Yes, can shift into any gear with engine on or off. It's when I let off the clutch that it doesn't do anything but a light grinding. Can visually confirm shift fork is moving. Too off top cover on trans and everything look normal in there. No way for me to drop this 200lb trans on the side of the road to see what's going on inside bellhousing. Was operating fine, gave no warning up to the current problem.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Throw-out bearing?

Does the noise change as you push in the clutch pedal?

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Engine running, transmission in gear, clutch pedal pressed, no noise. Same scenario, letting go of clutch, just grinding noise. Engine running, transmission in neutral, no change in sound when pushing clutch pedal.

 

[kklowell]

If you put it in gear with the engine off and then start it, does it move or just make noise?

 

[bullfrog]

Is the vehicle moving when you let out the clutch (take your foot off the petal) with the vehicle in gear or just sitting there making a grinding noise? Great minds think alike! Lol!!!

 

[bullfrog]

When you said everything looked good with the shifter cover off, were you able to see the back of the input shaft bearing and everything looked good?

 

[bullfrog]

Just to verify post #7, is it making the grinding noise all the time in neutral or not making the noise in neutral even when you work the clutch petal?

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

If you put it in gear with the engine off and then start it, does it move or just make noise?

I did not try that. Assuming it will just make grinding noises and not move. Will try that in the morning.

Is the vehicle moving when you let out the clutch (take your foot off the petal) with the vehicle in gear or just sitting there making a grinding noise? Great minds think alike! Lol!!!

Vehicle is completely immobile. Just grinds when I let clutch out in every gear. Only grinds when in a gear and clutch pedal is released. I was lucky to coast off the offramp and landed in a decent place. Maybe the pilot bearing blew and something isn't aligning?

When you said everything looked good with the shifter cover off, were you able to see the back of the input shaft bearing and everything looked good?

I pulled the floor plate up in the cab and removed top of transmission, benefits to having a step van. Everything looks fine. I move the gears back and forth and hear a funny noise coming from inside the bell housing. I really need to drop the transmission.

 

[bullfrog]

My wife got really mad at me once and destroyed a solid center racing clutch disc by red lining the motor and dropping the clutch in 3rd gear at a standing stop. After being scared to death from the wheelie and landing in the ditch a half block down the street she calmed down. Do you have any access or inspection plate on the bell housing? If you have a riveted clutch disc ( one with the center portion where the splines are riveted to the plate that holds the clutch material ) you most likely have ripped out all the rivets or the springs that help smooth the engagement. I sort of cringe when people shift without using the clutch because one missed shift can do that, that is unless you have a wife like mine, God love her! Lol!!! You may find a lot of gray fine metal dust and spring pieces at the bottom of the bell housing, and that is a good thing otherwise you could be looking at a broken transmission input shaft. Fortunately many parts stores will loan you a transmission jack and clutch pilot tool now a days. I used an old lawn mower case with wheels, bottle jack, some wood and ratchet straps once and I don't recommend doing that. If you are gonna work on old vehicles you need to stay in shape! Best wishes!

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Hmmm, good ideas. Don't get married, got it! Looking at the old photos of when we rebuilt motor, yes, the clutch is a riveted type. Only inspection hole we have is about 1" by the clutch slave cylinder. Hard to see in there. The broken clutch plate fits the bill on the symptoms, thanks! I just need to get access to a transmission jack out here and drop this thing. Actually, the best way to get this transmission in and out is with a engine hoist through the passenger door!

 

[bullfrog]

If you have room and some long hardened bolts I have replaced a few of the bell housing bolts with longer bolts and used a ratchet strap around a 4x4 or pipe in the seats to slide the transmission back enough to get the pressure plate and disc out. In fact I carried enough different lengths to use them to pull the transmission back in as you won't have enough room for a pilot tool, you align the clutch plate by looking at the outer wear marks on the flywheel and hope your close enough to pull it in with the bolts far enough you can release the pressure plate with the clutch petal to align the nose of the input shaft in the pilot bearing and slide the trans in. Supporting it underneath is a good idea if you have something you can slide or roll as well but none of this is recommended. Getting a tow to a good parts place parking lot is a much better idea. By the way we are coming up on 45 years of marriage and are glad we can laugh at mistakes that happened years ago.

 

[kklowell]

That's what I was getting at... a blown clutch disk. Keep us updated, please.

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Haha, I guess over time, everyone has these issues and you just find a way. Good luck on your successful marriage! I have so chain and a come-along. I'm thinking about making a chain anchor to the roof and using the come-along to assist the lowering and raising of the transmission.

I've worn out clutch discs, never had one break like this. Is it that common? Ways to prevent this in the future?

 

[desert_sailing]

Wish I had something to offer brother.

Hope you are all back up asap.

 

[jasper]

Being able to look at the gears is a plus.  If you put it in gear with the clutch pedal at the top, and hit the starter and the engine spins and no gears move, no clutch holding or broken input shaft.

If you have an open rear differential, you could jack up a rear wheel and try to spin it while in gear and when in neutral. Clutch pedal down and up.

With the driveshaft moving and the gears visible, you should be able to see if the transmission's input shaft is moving in gear.  You may have to
really slam the rear wheel back and forth to get it to move.  Possibly try different gears.  My clutches always ate the weenie during gear changes or launches.  

If there are chunks of clutch material in the bellhousing, watch the eyes.

Make sure the pilot bushing in the flywheel is in good shape.

Bummer.

 

[bullfrog]

If the point in the roof is stationary you will need to be able to adjust the height easily. As the transmission swings it changes height, another reason to use longer guide bolts in the bell housing. There are several different types of pressure plate and disc combinations. Stock pressure plates use springs to apply pressure on disc with riveted centers that have shock absorbing springs to help prevent hammering driveline parts. Driven reasonably they provide a good service life. Higher performance clutches use stiffer springs in the pressure plate or centrifugal force ( they use weights to apply increasing clamping force as the engine rpms increase) to apply clamping force to improved material (some puck discs are heat resistant sections of copper alloy and can take tremendous pressure and heat) sometimes multiple disc clutch packs. Being poor the clutch my wife broke used a diaphragm stronger spring pressure plate with a solid steel one piece disk with high performance clutch material (imbedded copper strands), she actually cracked/ripped/broke the one piece steel center out and made two pieces of it. Really an amazing impossible feat in my opinion. Since your diesel truck is designed to carry weight a stock heavy duty clutch for a diesel should work fine if used properly. You can use a heavier sprung pressure plate and improved material disc if it is available. As you have a hydraulic clutch petal pressure isn't a problem. If you are going to drive it and abuse it like a race car a centrifugal clutch is an expensive and higher maintenance (as it has more pieces to wear out) alternative as it works better.