Tongue and groove info pooling / questions

[Vanada]

Hey All,

Here I was, content with the idea of using 1/8" ply to panel the van then all of a sudden I start seeing people using tongue and groove. At first I thought it was a waste of space, too thick etc. but the results did look pretty damn hot and 5/16" didn't sound awful. Somewhere along the line I became certain I wanted to go down this route and now I have a bunch of it ready to install when the time comes.

My primary question is this: I'm seeing a lot of people putting up studs to screw into. What's wrong with the van's metal struts? (Referring specifically to the Chevy Express here) Is this a case of a housing methodology getting applied to vans and thus over-engineered or is it absolutely necessary? I can definitely see where it might be tough to meet certain curves. The doors almost certainly need something to level them and give space to bits and pieces sticking out from the inside.

Anywho, I just wanted to see who's using T&G, how many of you, how you went about installing etc.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[highdesertranger]

a hint, ship lap is much easier to work with and the final appearance looks the same. nothing wrong with using the metal studs. highdesertranger

 

[BradKW]

Using furring strips will have a number of advantages, you'll have to decide if they are worth the extra 1/2" to 3/4":

1) T&G's big benefit is that the finished product won't show any fasteners...with that 5/16" product, you'd use a pin nailer on the tongue edge, dab of adhesive for mobile application, fit groove over it, rinse and repeat. Your entire wall won't show a screw except for starting and finishing course.

2) Since you can't nail to the metal, you would need a screw in every board on every metal rib.

3) You can attach a furring strip with some adhesive and maybe 4 screws...screwing every board would end up using, what, 15-20 screws per rib? screwing to metal is more work, less screws the better.

4) 3/4" furring would allow nice space for a piece of 3/4" rigid insulation.

5) Furring strips allow for shimming out weirdness uniformly...thin T&G isn't going to be very tolerant to curves.

 

[SternWake]

I am rather amazed how willing some are to lose interior space in some van builds.

If I were to t&G's my 89 Dodge's walls it would be next to a layer or 2 of reflectix as tight to the van's metal skin as possible, and I'd built custom pieces around the bulkheads To cover them.

NO way would I bridge the bulkheads, at least on my dodge, and attach T&G or shiplap to the cross beams, I'd lose 3 to 5 inches on each side.

The walls are inside bends. Cut em long and bend em inward and tap into place with pressure in the right spots and it can almost be done without fasteners.

I'd likely seal both side of the T&G before bending it and sliding/ tappy tapping it into place if I were going for ideal

 

[Vanada]

Using furring strips will have a number of advantages, you'll have to decide if they are worth the extra 1/2" to 3/4":

1) T&G's big benefit is that the finished product won't show any fasteners...with that 5/16" product, you'd use a pin nailer on the tongue edge, dab of adhesive for mobile application, fit groove over it, rinse and repeat. Your entire wall won't show a screw except for starting and finishing course.  

2) Since you can't nail to the metal, you would need a screw in every board on every metal rib.

3) You can attach a furring strip with some adhesive and maybe 4 screws...screwing every board would end up using, what, 15-20 screws per rib? screwing to metal is more work, less screws the better.

4) 3/4" furring would allow nice space for a piece of 3/4" rigid insulation.

5) Furring strips allow for shimming out weirdness uniformly...thin T&G isn't going to be very tolerant to curves.

Awesome, thanks Brad! That answered my question perfectly. Gives me a lot of to consider so I'll take my time with that. Seems like it would be a pain to reverse if I needed to get to any cables but perhaps I can design a way around that.

highdesertranger - I found results for shiplap on Home Depot's US site but nothing for Canada. Obviously there are other places to look and it does seem like it would be a bit simpler.

 

[Vanada]

I am rather amazed how willing some are to lose interior space in some van builds.

If I were to t&G's my 89 Dodge's walls it would be next to a layer or 2 of reflectix as tight to the van's metal skin as possible, and I'd built custom pieces around the bulkheads To cover them.

NO way would I bridge the bulkheads, at least on my dodge, and attach T&G or shiplap to the cross beams, I'd lose 3 to 5 inches on each side.

The walls are inside bends. Cut em long and bend em inward and tap into place with pressure in the right spots and it can almost be done without fasteners.

I'd likely seal both side of the T&G before bending it and  sliding/ tappy tapping  it into place if I were going for ideal

I'm very much not willing to lose interior space. I imagine it's possible to put wood studs up alongside the existing metal ones so the difference is just in thickness of the material... Right? I think I got a bit lost.

 

[SternWake]

NO Studs in my build, My theoretical T&G interior would be cut long, and bent to fit inner curve of metal skin. I would build wood covers around existing studs.

I don't know what the interior walls of other vans really look like. Mine, I could put T&G vertically between van floor and square top rail tight enough to not need many fasteners.

Not sure the thinnest T&G. I have 3/32" of while plastic sheeting with 1/8 floor underlayment originally adhered to interior metal skin in 2001. would not be my choice today. i was not concerned with insulation as I intended to be in mild climates, and can easily add it if that changes.

 

[Almost There]

I chose to apply 1 x3 'furring' strips for a couple of reasons:

1. the metal studs in the Chevy/GMC are contoured for strength and then have really stupid cut outs in them. My earlier Ford vans had flat faced 3" wide straight studs that were a dream in comparison.The combination of the contours and the cutouts make it really difficult to uniformly and easily screw anything in to them. I countersunk bolt holes in to the 1x3s and got my really small fingers in the holes and fastened the 1 x 3s to the van studs with large washers and nuts in the back. I DO NOT recommend this method - it was a total PITA to do!!

2. I was able to strategically put the studs where I needed them to join panels together and to reinforce specific areas for attaching cupboards, the tv swing bar, etc.

Using the Kreg jig I was also able to put vertical supports between the horizontal furring strips where I needed them.

Yes, I lost 3/4" on each side of the van but it made the interior build a whole lot easier.

 

[ahh_me2]

I found some in Canada, apparently it had been discontinued for  few years but they are now stocking it again.

Knotty pine T&G

After seeing KamTurbo's build and subsequently finding the above, I decided to go with this because it solved a number of issues on my build.

I am using a Brad nailer to lock it down

 

[Vanada]

I found some in Canada, apparently it had been discontinued for  few years but they are now stocking it again.

Knotty pine T&G

After seeing KamTurbo's build and subsequently finding the above, I decided to go with this because it solved a number of issues on my build.

I am using a Brad nailer to lock it down

Oh, that's the stuff I bought except without the bead from Home Depot. They just didn't have anything in the way of shiplap.

 

[TrainChaser]

SternWake: " Mine, I could put T&G vertically between van floor and square top rail tight enough to not need many fasteners."

Does that stuff flex enough to fit the curve?

 

[BradKW]

Shiplap is often called novelty siding, I've never seen it in 1/4", but maybe it exists...

 

[DannyB1954]

Makes me wonder if snap together wood flooring would work on walls.

 

[SternWake]

SternWake:  " Mine, I could put T&G vertically between van floor and square top rail tight enough to not need many fasteners."

Does that stuff flex enough to fit the curve?

The last Cedar ~5/8" thick T&G I worked with certainly would.  Likely insulate better than pine too, certainly be lighter weight.

Cedar kind of splits along the grain easy though.

 

[Vanada]

My mind had been on and off this for a while but of course now I'm injured and the rain has been relentless here.

Right now I'm thinking I can attach studs to the sides of the existing metal supports. That will limit loss of space and I'm trying to convince myself that with the thinsulate, a little bit of compressed insulation behind wood is better than none at all. Here's what I'm struggling with though:
How small can I make those studs?
What's the best method of attaching them? Glue? Screws?
I don't want wiring to become totally inaccessible. Is there any screw type which will substitute pin nails for this application?

SternWake: FYI I was planning to place the boards lengthways / horizontally rather than vertically. That's based mainly on what I've seen others doing and getting a good looking result with but I'll try to visualise both.

 

[highdesertranger]

why do you need studs? highdesertranger

 

[Vanada]

why do you need studs?  highdesertranger

BradKW's post on the first page explained that pretty well.

 

[Vanada]

I've thrown a full 180 and decided to try to utilize the van's existing struts. Also I'm going to forego nailing into the base of the tongue and screw straight through the face / cover up afterwards. This is after chatting to my Dad and of course Dad's know best right?

Home Depot stock these which are the right length and self-drill into metal:
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.8-x-1-teks-lath-screws-self-drilling.1000540068.html

There are wood-to-metal screws with routing wings which break off when they hit the metal but they seem hard to find here and I can do the same manually:
1) Drill a clearance hole in the face of the board. Just enough to clear the threads and prevent jacking.
2) Drill a counterbore in the board for the truss head to sit in.
3) Place the board and drive the self-drilling screw into the metal.
4) Cover with wood filler or similar before staining.

 

[highdesertranger]

if you shop around on line you can find those in colors that would look good exposed. that would eliminate a couple of steps, like the counter sinking and wood putty. just throwing that out there. highdesertranger

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I have just finished doing my roof in tung and groove 5/16 I would not buy it at home depot check out other suppliers in your area there are a few manufacturers of this product that sell it much cheaper in the end I payed 8 dollars for a packet of 5 8foot lengths of pine. I think home depot where selling it for 18 dollars for a packet of six pine and 30 something for cedar. The way I made studs on my slightly rounded roof was with strips of 5mm ply glued together then screw down, I used 4 strips then added 3/4 inch insulation bewtween the studs, I would not use ship lap, like Brad said glue each board into the previous one. If you do it with screws you will find it hard unless there are two of you to hold it in place, also you will likely end up splitting it or you will find it looks like a lot of indentations. Ship lap will likely open up on one or both sides. Remember to seal all the knots on the knotty pine before painting or they will eventually show through. I will see if I can fish out some pictures for you of the finished product for you and half way through some time today. Good luck
ps at 5/16 I doubt you will have enough room to counter sink a screw and putty the only way I think of screws working and not splitting is using an upholstry washer and leaving them exposed