The discrimination of the van Life community in America

[that420vanchick]

It happened again guys! My van got profiled... I'm staying in a hotel and came down to walk my dogs to find a notice on my van without being towed in 24 hours problem is the parking pass issued to me by the hotel was presented in Plainview on my rearview....

I know I'm not the only one who's experienced this and it's happened in so many different ways. I've been denied jobs, fired from jobs, harassed by police minding my own business in Walmart parking lots... The list goes on.

We need to start this discussion within the community because the stigma just keeps getting thicker with our silence. Sure it's easy to escape Babylon and live in our own worlds but when we jump into society things can get difficult and when it comes to police officers nine times out of 10 they don't know the law and make things up on the side of the road.

Are there any groups speaking out against this? And if not why not start the discussion now. Drop your horror stories below and let's just open the floor up. I don't even think we talk about it with each other but it's super important and if we don't step up now it may get to the point where laws are made that prevent us from living the lifestyles we want.

 

[bullfrog !]

Well it seems to me society is slow to change or even accept that change has occurred and along those lines less people and more open space meant it was easier to avoid the conflict. Unfortunately many not only avoided the conflict but failed to engage in voicing their opinion or protecting their right to voice their opinion to a point many do not even recognize this large group exists which is why the will of the majority is not being recognized and a smaller more powerful less willing to change group is attempting to resist necessary change in my opinion. Homelessness, like all things related to society as it deteriorates must be addressed for the betterment of all.

 

[RVTravel]

From your profile it looks your van is just a conversion van? Sorry it happened.

 

[Morgana]

I imagine people here have a very wide range of opinions of "the police" -- and an equally wide range of personal experiences with them. A statement that they "don't know the law" and "make things up" is over-broad, not provable, and veering awfully close to a couple of things that are discouraged on this forum: (1) politics and (2) denigrating whole groups of people.

Encouraging people to "drop horror stories" has a strong Us-vs-Them vibe to it. In practice, it tends to make people feel more powerless, not less. Instead, how about a focus on what exactly you think needs to change and how people could work towards that?

Since this is, after all, USA/Planet Earth, there's never a shortage of horror stories. It is notoriously difficult for small social groups to accomplish their aims in isolation -- especially if they present their specialized grievances as the main/only priority. Maybe a broader sense of shared concerns with other people would lead to more practical ways to move forward.

Also, it's not unusual for a community to try to protect itself, in both healthy and unhealthy ways. Something you despise enough to refer to as Babylon and energetically isolate yourself from is not likely to welcome you with open arms when you decide it's more convenient for you to temporarily access it again.

A stronger focus on concrete goals -- and positive action steps to get there -- might have a greater chance of success. So would greater awareness that we are all in this together.

PS
I didn't quite understand why, if you were staying in a hotel, you considered action aimed at your vehicle to be aimed at a vandweller.
And I wonder (it is a neutral question, not an insinuation -- I don't know the answer) whether your vehicle in some way stood out from other vehicles with hotel permits. If not, then what is it that you believe attracted police attention to it?

 

[WanderingRose]

My first reaction to you getting a tow notice when your vehicle was properly tagged in a hotel parking lot was that you need to have a conversation with the duty Sergeant, or whomever similar, with that police department and advise them of the issue.

Politely and calmly. They can track it and determine who did this.

Some law enforcement are bad actors, however and toward whomever, but it is my experience that most police departments don’t want these folks as the face of their agency.

It is our responsibility to ourselves and others in similar circumstances, in my opinion, to step up and speak to those in authority about discriminatory behavior by their subordinates.

 

[RvNaut]

Those choosing to live in urban areas will result in being subject to a higher focus on what might be determined to be "vagrants" in any form they take, and van-dwellers can be defined as such but entities in those urban areas, and not without reason. Yes you and I are good people, but cities face ever increasing quantities of squatters... and yes, you are not a squatter ...

Ask the front desk for an additional parking permit for the front windscreen.

Speak with hotel Manager and complain that you were tagged for towing, and suggest they themselves do a btter job of checking permits, and/or ask that they request the police do?

Was this the local LEO that placed the tow notice or the rent-a-cop the hotel hired?

Are you in a city know for issues? Seattle/Portland??

 

[Gr8ful]

IMHO some things don't add up. Normally police don't go on private property & put on tow warnings & if it's the motel why would they do this & lose a paying customer? I've also never denied anyone a job or inspected their vehicle during a hire. I would ask if they had dependable transportation. If someone I hired was on time & did their job who would care what they drove to work? Maybe I'm missing something like the rest of the story.

 

[RonDean]

I think I can fairly claim that I have no bias against the police. I have deputies through federal officers in my immediate family. But, the police can be just as biased as anyone else. Our society has more than it's share of people right now that disapprove of anyone that is different. Our society is struggling with the different interests of businesses and stick/bricks on one side and homeless folks and we responsible nomads on the other. For the police the difference between homeless and nomads may be hard to tell. And for some of them that separation is too slight to matter.

Discrimination exists. And right now maybe it's our turn in the barrel. It might be something to remember when we witness someone else being singled out for being different. Sometimes you can stand out as different just by being yourself.

 

[BelgianPup]

Show us what your van looks like. When you're staying there and get tagged.....

 

[Happy Camper]

It sounds like you have a lot of grievances that seem similar, but might not be. It would be a better discussion if you worked through one and gave proper context.

It reminds me of one of the main things I learned in years of couples counseling.

"Did you want a solution from me? Or are you venting and just need me to listen?"

 

[eDJ_]

From what I've seen, a lot of small town LEO's (especially night shift) are looking for anyone or anything they can put on their "duty report".

When this is turned in to their higher up's, they will have some idea of where they have been and what they've done on their shift to be worthy of their pay or keeping their jobs.

So "hippy van's" are easy prey. And yes there are still LEO's referring to any young person in a van as a hippy. (50 years after the hippies) If you are an older person in a van you're an "old hippy" just the same.
Their assuming the worst only reinforces their position.

 

[that420vanchick]

IMHO some things don't add up. Normally police don't go on private property & put on tow warnings & if it's the motel why would they do this & lose a paying customer? I've also never denied anyone a job or inspected their vehicle during a hire. I would ask if they had dependable transportation. If someone I hired was on time & did their job who would care what they drove to work? Maybe I'm missing something like the rest of the story.

No police, security

 

[Happy Camper]

So the police didn't profile you. Got it.

Sounds like the office and hired security don't communicate well. That's a simple fix.

 

[rruff]

... harassed by police minding my own business...

That one was kinda shocking to me. When upper middle class (and white), I never got hassled by cops. When I became a poor person living in a vehicle, my popularity sky rocketed!

I thought about it a bit and realized I was just getting a taste of how the poor and minorities have always been treated. The cops don't really work for "everybody" they work for rich people... or at least not the poor. There is a group of people who they are protecting from another group. And yes, they profile like crazy. Honestly I have to admit that it would be hard for them to deter crime otherwise. They need to be proactive to a degree.

It sucks being on the receiving end, but I decided that so long as they do not manhandle me or hold me at gunpoint and ransack my rig... for absolutely no reason!... I'm ok with it. Usually they just run my license. 50% are quite polite, and 50% are not at all...

 

[Texas Gypsy]

Some of it is warranted and a lot of it is going to be based on location. Several cities have shockingly awful conditions caused by homeless that are usually drug addicts or very mentally ill people. Nobody wants that sort of thing in their town.
It should simply be a matter of showing that you are not that sort of person. Smile, cooperate with reasonable requests and don't argue until it's time to argue. I take this stance with all law enforcement except border patrol .
It gets up under my skin to be told I'm suspicious because I'm a woman driving alone. They harass me and search me 3/4 of the time! I strongly suspect they have a harassment quota. I have crossed the border hundreds of times and they've never found a thing. They know it is safe to harass me
There are women's groups on Facebook for suv/car living as well as women rv and tent camping groups. It is appalling how many women are becoming homeless and living in their vehicles either themselves or themselves and their children. Other women with a bit more means are trying to help by at least providing safe places to park. Many of these women are under so much stress that they just can't take 'the knock'.
So..... let's work on actual solutions among ourselves. The gov creates problems.

 

[rruff]

They know it is safe to harass me

That is also a factor. If you've ever been to a Rainbow Gathering, you'll probably notice that police of all sorts are randomly pulling over people for driving with long hair or dreads, or anything about their rig that indicates "mild mannered nuevo hippy".

 

[RonDean]

It sounds like you have a lot of grievances that seem similar, but might not be. It would be a better discussion if you worked through one and gave proper context.

It reminds me of one of the main things I learned in years of couples counseling.

"Did you want a solution from me? Or are you venting and just need me to listen?"

HC,
I get where you are coming from and then I don't. IMO, forums like this one are sometimes for asking for help, suggestions, and solutions. Probably the best and highest usage of a forum.

But, I also see nothing wrong with reporting events or opinions and not seeking any of the above. Even, and maybe especially, those things we know there are no immediate solutions for. Sometimes it feels good to just vent.

 

[Texas Gypsy]

That is also a factor. If you've ever been to a Rainbow Gathering, you'll probably notice that police of all sorts are randomly pulling over people for driving with long hair or dreads, or anything about their rig that indicates "mild mannered nuevo hippy".

Never been to one. Don't know what it is. I pretty much just do me and not really into gatherings.
Unless it involves bees
I am totally up for anything bee related at any time. Been a beekeeper for over 30 years. Before covid I was paid to travel and speak at bee clubs.

 

[GypsyHobo]

It happened again guys! My van got profiled... I'm staying in a hotel and came down to walk my dogs to find a notice on my van without being towed in 24 hours problem is the parking pass issued to me by the hotel was presented in Plainview on my rearview....

I know I'm not the only one who's experienced this and it's happened in so many different ways. I've been denied jobs, fired from jobs, harassed by police minding my own business in Walmart parking lots... The list goes on.

We need to start this discussion within the community because the stigma just keeps getting thicker with our silence. Sure it's easy to escape Babylon and live in our own worlds but when we jump into society things can get difficult and when it comes to police officers nine times out of 10 they don't know the law and make things up on the side of the road.

Are there any groups speaking out against this? And if not why not start the discussion now. Drop your horror stories below and let's just open the floor up. I don't even think we talk about it with each other but it's super important and if we don't step up now it may get to the point where laws are made that prevent us from living the lifestyles we want.

I feel your pain.

Like many here I too have been singled out over the years. But for me I don't see that there's much to be done aside from voting and trying to adapt.

Staying in town can be tough and from my experience it's going to get tougher. There are more and more folks living this lifestyle these days. The streets and even the sweet spots are getting crowded and not everyone is responsible with their trash, etc. This draws a lot of attention and so towns are becoming quite vigilant. This is why I feel that we will all be getting rousted more and more in the future.

I've adopted changes over the years to avoid extra attention. I went to a less conspicuous vehicle and I no longer put any stickers on my vehicle. And now that I've changed vehicles again I'm seriously debating on waiting to put anything on the roof until my long stay in town is over. All so I can blend in better.

I see that you have a vehicle that blends in pretty well. All I can suggest are things you probably already know like: staying in your vehicle, trying to keep any light from showing through to the outside, etc.

I like to have a second sleeping spot in mind just in case I get rousted. Or I have gone to the extreme and switched my days and nights. While in town I'll stay up all night doing things like emails, laundry or groceries and then wait till daytime when I find it's easier to find a place to park and sleep.

Anyway, I hope you have better luck.

 

[eDJ_]

I see stickers on big bikes that advertise that if a bike is involved in a car wreck to call certain 1 800 numbers. These have been around for some time.

I can imagine a day when stickers on rigs offer 1 800 numbers if they have encountered harassent or abuse. Possibly this will happen when syndicated national law firms start advertising on prime time TV or drive time Radio to represent Nomads. (like they do with Nursing Home Abuse, Insurance Company cheating, Medical Malpractice, etc)
I see them reaching out to RV travelers issues.

Like anything else, when bullies realize there may be retaliation for their actions and their superiors realize that they may have law suits filed against them, they may be obliged to revise their attitude.