Stealth...With Windows

[ZoNiE]

Hi Folks I'm new here, Have been lurking for a while.

I just read the post regarding Bill Southworth's awesome stealth "apartment" I have a similar design on the drawing board. I have to consider space for a couple and a dog as well. We're using a 25' travel trailer now for weekend getaways, Still live in 2,600 sq ft and working, but really looking at simplifying things down the road. The TT isn't laid out well for long term even though I reconfigured it a bit, added a Honda EV4010 for summers and have 400W of solar. The bath is in the center and on the plus side, it gives a "two-room" feeling but makes it feel cramped. It also has lots of (small) windows. It is a Skyline Nomad.

I'm working out the plans for a 20' x 8.5' wide V-nose, using the V front for the Bathroom. This gives an "Open Concept" feel to the rest of the trailer, but...My wife really wants windows. I tell her we would be living "out of it" not "in it" but still...

We're going to build an inner wall inside the back doors with a full light entry door, and a window next to it, so when the back doors are open, there is views to outside. This space will also house one or two 100LB "Worthington" LP tanks for long term/cold weather heating fuel needs. But the tanks limit the window size and this is still only one wall of light.

I have an Idea that I have not seen anyone post her or anywhere. These Cargo trailers are available with lift-up concession doors. I was thinking that these could be used to conceal relatively nice large windows when you are in stealth mode, but be opened up to allow the window to be, well, a window, with the door itself acting as a shade awning over the window. Two of these 36"-48" wide and 36" high opposite each other would really open up a trailer for light and views, especially if one was on a lake shore or something.

This also allows the use of better residential windows instead of RV windows which basically suck, leak, and are expensive.

When they are closed, they look like regular old access panels to tool compartments or whatever a contractor would use them for, and in addition to the locking mechanism on the outside, they could be easily and securely bolted on the inside so if the outside locks were cut, you still couldn't open them.

I plan to cover the roof with as much solar as I can, and will conceal their presence (from the ground, anyway) with "stuff" contractors would have, including a very light aluminum extension ladder, and six-inch Pipes with caps on the end to store long things. Enough of this type of stuff will hide the two fantastic vents, the panels, a solar hot water collector, and the grey tank vents. (I will use a cassette toilet, so no black tank needed).

If anyone has done this, Please post a photo.

I'f i'm crazy, just tell me. I'm an engineer, and cannot keep these ideas from popping up in my head.

 

[SoulRaven]

"This space will also house one or two 100LB "Worthington" LP tanks"

That's the bomb if there is a leak or if the trailer gets rear ended.

 

[akrvbob]

I live in a cargo trailer and there is no way that I would do it without windows. The back door and garage will give you lots of light through it, but I don't think it would be enough for me. Remember, during bad weather you're going to be forced inside and maybe for long periods of time. You want that to be pleasant!

Putting in a large window will mean cutting ribs (usually 24 inches OC) and that's going to mean framing in the opening with headers and King studs just like stick construction. It can be done but will require welding and fabricating maybe with steel of aluminum. Can you do that? If so it's a great idea. I couldn't so I got windows that are 18x36 so I didn't have to cut any ribs. I love them. But I think I would still use RV windows. That's what I put in mine and they have been trouble free. I put them in my previous home-built camper and they were trouble free in it also.

I'm not fond of 100 pound bottles. They are so heavy they are very difficult to move. Unless you are going to be in extreme winter conditions, it's over kill. I'd go with two 40 pound bottles, and if that wasn't enough get more.

By creating the entry room in back the bottles will be perfectly safe back there. With that much solar you will need a lot of batteries, you;ll want to balance all that weight fore and aft. I think I would create two systems with two controllers feeding two seperate banks, one on the tongue, one on the garage in back.

Great plan!
Bob

 

[ZoNiE]

"This space will also house one or two 100LB "Worthington" LP tanks"

That's the bomb if there is a leak or if the trailer gets rear ended.

Well, you see them on trucks that carry them around, right up there against the rear tailgate/fence. I'm not worried. The rear compartment will have proper floor vents for LP, as well as other items in there. I may be able to fit one up front, but Not sure yet. I currently have two 30# on my TT. Never liked them on the tongue, and they need to be hidden anyway. My GMC Motorhome had an RV tank in the rear... There are 9,000 out of 13,000 GMC motorhomes still on the road with LP tanks just behind the rear bumper, and none of them have exploded, plenty have been rear ended, t-boned, and rolled...

I live in a cargo trailer and there is no way that I would do it without windows. The back door and garage will give you lots of light through it, but I don't think it would be enough for me. Remember, during bad weather you're going to be forced inside and maybe for long periods of time. You want that to be pleasant!

Putting in a large window will mean cutting ribs (usually 24 inches OC) and that's going to mean framing in the opening with headers and King studs just like stick construction. It can be done but will require welding and fabricating maybe with steel of aluminum. Can you do that? If so it's a great idea. I couldn't so I got windows that are 18x36 so I didn't have to cut any ribs. I love them. But I think I would still use RV windows. That's what I put in mine and they have been trouble free. I put them in my previous home-built camper and they were trouble free in it also.

I'm not fond of 100 pound bottles. They are so heavy they are very difficult to move. Unless you are going to be in extreme winter conditions, it's over kill. I'd go with two 40 pound bottles, and if that wasn't enough get more.

By creating the entry room in back the bottles will be perfectly safe back there. With that much solar you will need a lot of batteries, you;ll want to balance all that weight fore and aft. I think I would create two systems with two controllers feeding two separate banks, one on the tongue, one on the garage in back.

Great plan!
Bob

Thanks, Bob.

The 100# bottles are overkill, but what if you are stuck somewhere... There's a little of "prepper mentality" going on here, And, I like to Ski. Need heat. I also sometimes camp in the desert, in the heat for some events I attend, and the 4010 and the Mini Split AC unit I plan to use need fuel too.

For Batteries, I have planned for 4X L16's and they will be amidships just ahead of the axles, in a proper compartment that will be sealed from the living area, but accessible from one of the concession doors as the door will extend below the window. Even with shock absorbers, trailers bounce too much for the batteries to be in the back. There will be an internal door protecting them as well. I currently have only two GC2's on my TT. this one will be Four L16's running 24V. I already have (got for free) a 24V Sensata 3,300 W Pure Sine Wave Inverter. The batteries are offset on the other side by other items. The Sensata will be at most, 2 ft of cabling away from the closest battery post in an isolated compartment.

I am not currently planning tilt-able panels, so extra panel capacity will be needed for the inefficiency. I use a Midnite Solar Kid right now, I'll be using Classics on the new rig.

My heat will be via an Alde Hydronic system I picked up cheap. They are used in European RV's. It will be in floor heating, and the heat will also radiate to the tanks below the sub-floor. The tanks will be between the trailer's floor and my sub-floor above them. The bottom will be insulated, so this will be a four seasons trailer. It's gonna be heavy, but I will upgrade my TV from a V8 Sport Trac to a Diesel Pickup or Chevy Van.

I also have room for a solar collector for hot water, but this will be backed up by the Alde, which has a "warm" water system as well.

As for cutting the trailer, I would order the trailer with the concession doors and proper framing already in place. A lot of preplanning is going in place for this. I have been planning one of these for years.

I'm gonna spend some money on this, and at my age, I need it to last 25+ years.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Were you planing to buy a used or new trailer?  If you opt for new, many of the manufacturers will custom build whatever you want in the way of windows, doors, concession trailer openings, etc.

If you were'nt aware of it, there is an EXTREMELY active group of people customizing cargo trailers over on the Teardrops and Tiny Travel Trailers site.

Regards
John

 

[Canine]

I would recommend to definitely install tiltable panels.The increase in output is substantial.

 

[ZoNiE]

Were you planing to buy a used or new trailer?  If you opt for new, many of the manufacturers will custom build whatever you want in the way of windows, doors, concession trailer openings, etc.

If you were'nt aware of it, there is an EXTREMELY active group of people customizing cargo trailers over on the Teardrops and Tiny Travel Trailers site.

Regards
John

New. I will be ordering it custom built with the concession doors and the framing for windows I will specify. I was just wondering if anyone had done hidden windows like this.

I was on the TNTTT board over 10 years ago, and had posted plans back then that I could swear caused the commercial trailer manufacturers to start putting in outdoor kitchens!!! I'll pop over there and see whats up.

Incidentally, I went the motorhome route, instead, now I have come full circle, so it seems.

 

[Patrick46]

I'm a bit of an engineer/inventor myself...and I think the idea for the sub wall with windows behind the concession doors is OUTSTANDING!!!

I've kinda got a similar idea going for my doors on a 5th wheel cargo trailer I'd like to pull behind my hot-rod Peterbilt...but I don't know how long I'll be owning it before someone offers me stupid money for it! I just got it painted and this has been a 7 year build!


Welcome to the board!

 

[ZoNiE]

I'm a bit of an engineer/inventor myself...and I think the idea for the sub wall with windows behind the concession doors is OUTSTANDING!!!

I've kinda got a similar idea going for my doors on a 5th wheel cargo trailer I'd like to pull behind my hot-rod Peterbilt...but I don't know how long I'll be owning it before someone offers me stupid money for it! I just got it painted and this has been a 7 year build!


Welcome to the board!

Thanks! Yeah, It took me 11 years to "Build" My GMC and when it spun a main bearing, I was done. Bought the TT a month later and have enjoyed the heck out of it, but it wasn't long before I started modding it.

Photos of Mods to the trailer are HERE

Any photos of your 5'er posted anywhere?

 

[highdesertranger]

zonie are you planning on going off road? why do you say rv windows leak? the reason I ask is if you notice all modern rv windows have radius corners this is to relieve the stresses caused by by a 90 degree corner. if you try to use house windows you will get stress fractures at the corners, especially if you travel off road. another thing about windows I talked to an rv window manufacturer, they advised me(because I plan on doing extensive off road travel) not to use double pane windows. he said that they have a high failure rate when driven off road. couple of points to think about. also 8.5 wide off road is going to get beat up, better not care about your paint. highdesertranger

 

[Bdog1]

When I first got a cargo trailer, some years back, I spent a few nights in it to get a feel for what I wanted to add. I can tell you no light inside is just weird! I purchased several salvage windows, but was ultimately happy with just one good sized curb side window and the installation of an RV door ( with a window). I modified the 1x1 wall frame accordingly. This 7x 16 trailer was my favorite camper.
The idea of an outer solid window cover is pretty cool. Perhaps it could open up, like an awning.

 

[ZoNiE]

I have single pane windows in my TT now. They tend to leak in strange places, within the frame... I'm not terribly worried about them leaking if they are mostly covered by concession doors...

As for the concession doors acting like awnings. Yes. they will. And will have LED lighting for use outside, as well.

 

[SoulRaven]

I have single pane windows in my TT now. They tend to leak in strange places, within the frame... I'm not terribly worried about them leaking if they are mostly covered by concession doors...

As for the concession doors acting like awnings. Yes. they will. And will have LED lighting for use outside, as well.

Sounds like the drain holes might be plugged.

 

[highdesertranger]

unless the rubber seal is old. I would check the drain holes like off grid said, if those are clear the windows need to be resealed. the frame itself can't leak it's one contentious piece, welded at the seam. highdesertranger

 

[ZoNiE]

The drain holes do get clogged, and I do keep 'em clean , but the leaks seem to be at the felt in the center where the moving pane overlaps. They are really just cheap crappy products. They are only 5 years old, But I live in Phoenix, so it doesn't surprise me that they may be dried out already.

RV parts and products are so cheap and cheaply made. For example, A rooftop AC unit costs little more than one did in 1975. They just keep finding ways of making them cheaper and cheaper. Roof air's are total crap anyway. I'm going to use an Inverter Mitsubishi mini split on the next rig.

RV's in Europe have much better appliances and such. They also cost more. I'm willing to pay for quality. Unfortunately, nobody else is... :s

 

[SoulRaven]

The drain holes do get clogged, and I do keep 'em clean , but the leaks seem to be at the felt in the center where the moving pane overlaps. They are really just cheap crappy products. They are only 5 years old, But I live in Phoenix, so it doesn't surprise me that they may be dried out already.

If I get a lot of gunk built up in mine I sometimes use formula 409 on them to get all of the gunk out, then they stop leaking.