PVC solar shower?

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zuren

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One thing my van doesn't have and doesn't really have the room for is a shower, so I was searching around for outdoor options.  I already have a MSR Dromedary water bag that doubles as a water carrier and a solar shower.  The solar shower feature works okay; the water is generally luke warm.

I came across people building a solar shower out a length of PVC pipe (diameters seem to vary) that is mounted to a roof rack.  A commercially available (and expensive) option is called the Road Shower:

http://www.roadshower.com/

I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried this idea and how well did it work?  It's definitely something that would take a while to heat and only be useful during non-freezing months but liked the simplicity.

Thanks!
 
A piece of black PVC, caps and a few fittings, even the air nipple shouldn't be too hard.
 
zuren said:
One thing my van doesn't have and doesn't really have the room for is a shower, so I was searching around for outdoor options.  I already have a MSR Dromedary water bag that doubles as a water carrier and a solar shower.  The solar shower feature works okay; the water is generally luke warm.

I came across people building a solar shower out a length of PVC pipe (diameters seem to vary) that is mounted to a roof rack.  A commercially available (and expensive) option is called the Road Shower:

http://www.roadshower.com/

I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried this idea and how well did it work?  It's definitely something that would take a while to heat and only be useful during non-freezing months but liked the simplicity.

Thanks!

Zuren,

Good topic.  Glad you started this thread.  I think this is a great idea and plan to do it.  Might be wrong, but I'll never know unless I try.  Seems it would be useful for showers, and in remote locations, a general source of water for everything except maybe drinking.

The best video that I found on this so far is below:



Let's brainstorm this.  I'd like to learn more.

Vagabound
 
My chosen method, for warm to hot water, has been the 5 gallon Sunshower bag with the screw cap.
A large 'S' hook, Beefing up the bar on top, and an extension for the shower wand, and a method to hook the showerhead higher than the shower bag, are pretty key in my opinion.

Making use of the black dashboard facing south, can really heat the water quickly, placing it on black asphalt in direct sunlight, is like a 250+ watt heating pad.

And I do have a ~45 watt 12v heating pad I can and do place the bag on, either to slowly warm it, or maintain the heat. Well insulated, It does not use too much battery power overnight to maintain ~100F.

I get the black PVC always in the sun at roof height is appealing, but what happens in cold weather, or when one wants warm water in the morning, or in cloudy weather? How about filling it? Seems like a pain in the ass.

While i have only done so once or twice, I've draped the hot water bag over my legs when I was cold and threw it under my covers and slept with the darn thing too.

I am on my 3rd one of these in the last 8 years:

https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Elements-gal-Summer-Shower/dp/B005CB7XCK

I've bought longer clear tubing and a barbed brass fitting to extend the wand length, replaced the plastic tube at top with a wood dowel, and reinforce this area with fiberglass saturated with 'amazing goop'.

The tearing of the bag at the top has been the demise of previous bags. The clear plastic does also turn cloudy with UV exposure and increases time to heat up water which is a bummer.

I have no issue throwing 5 gallons of showerbag on my raised fiberglass roof, but I know this is not within everyone's capabilities. I do hang the bag on my passenger side windshield visor too with door open, and just get a little lower to shower by passenger door, with rear barn door acting as somewhat of a privacy shield. The red rubber coated S hook is pretty key to hanging for both filling and showering ease.

There is more than one way to heat water for showering, this is just what has evolved in my usage as a van dwelling surfbum who can really appreciate warm water, in the morning.

I've been using this 12vDC heating pad:

https://www.amazon.com/ObboMed-SH-4...3_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=EYPSGQWVQEESCQK6CMF6

Its footprint is larger than the summer shower. The actual wattage it consumes varies with the voltage it receives.

Bypass the Ciggy plug and splice in some fatter wiring, and one can get it to consume 55 watts at 12.8v and 62 to 65 watts at 13.8v. Experiments to lower the current via PWM, were failures resulting in much lower water temps but barely any less electrical consumption.

It will only heat to about 100F, and it does cycle on and off to keep it no higher than 100F or so.

On top of a few layers of reflectix and covered with light jackets and clothes, whatever is handy, it Consumes about 28AH of battery capacity to heat 5 gallons of 65F degree water to ~100F. Surely insulative improvements could be achieved to lower this basic number.

Previous to this 12v heating pad I used a 53 watt 120Vac heating pad powered by a 400 watt PSW inverter, and old school one without the Emm Effing safety timer. its footprint was smaller and it could get the water in excess of 114.5 degrees, which I find to be the limit of heat I can handle. It did consume more battery power too, and eventually failed.

I've been thinking some 12v seat heaters would be better suited for the task of heating water more efficiently:

https://www.amazon.com/Carbon-Fiber...75350872&sr=1-4&keywords=12v+seat+heater&th=1

Since I can consume electricity to heat this water, I have also been viewing hot water as additional energy storage. So I have ways to hold shower bag tightly to black south facing conversion van windows, or place it on asphalt, generally get it as hot as possible, and then insulate it when sun starts going down. it usually resides on front passenger seat, and I will place hot bag on heating pad and insulate it and plug in pad to maintain heat. If I get it over 100F directly from the sun or sun heated surfaces it is place upon, the heating pad rarely powers up and does not consume much battery power to keep it above 100F, but that depends on ambient temps and the insulation covering it.

A hot shower can really be a luxurious mood improver. So I try to keep some degree of hot water on hand, always.

Another nice thing about the shower bag is I have heated water on my stove and used a funnel to pour non boiling water into the bag, hanging via S hook on seat back, to get it to the 100 to 112f area.
 
Plastic is a poor transmitter of heat. That's why the guy who built the Road Shower switched from ABS to aluminum. But I suppose plastic system better than nothing.
 
SternWake said:
...
I get the black PVC always in the sun at roof height is appealing, but what happens in cold weather, or when one wants warm water in the morning, or in cloudy weather?  How about filling it? Seems like a pain in the ass.
...

Black and roof height is good.  The idea of cold weather didn't bother me, because then, the thing just becomes a water supply.  Gotta heat it some other way.

The bigger problem is likely to be materials cost, depending on what is chosen.  Investigated large diameter PVC recently for another project and it becomes very expensive very fast.  And that goes double for fittings like end caps.  6" didn't seem to pricey.  Not sure about 8".  After that, not so good.  However, another constraint on pipe diameter is going to be, how heavy a water rocket do you want strapped to your roof during a collision?

SW's comment made me consider the 'filling' chore a bit more.  Could be a pain.  Come to think of it, the demos I saw were usually people filling the tank in their own driveway with their own garden hose for a weekend trip.  More convenient for sure.  That doesn't mean it can't be used for boondocking, but to be ready in most places, it probably means carrying a garden hose around.  And that makes me wonder, outside of residential areas, just how common are residential faucets to screw on to at likely water filling locations?

My big idea so far ;-) was to put double caps on the end with the faucet for stealth.  One cap is larger and covers the other cap, and the faucet.  That said, it would probably be much easier to tie a black nylon bag over the faucet end and call it a day.

Vagabound
 
I've been thinking about this a little more, did some searching, and had a question:

I agree with the comments above that plastic is a poor conductor. The water might get luke warm at best and this why the Road Shower is made from aluminum. From what I know, the outside diameter (OD) of 4" PVC pipe is 4.5". So all of the end caps, clean-outs, etc. you buy for 4" pipe has an actual measurement of 4.5".

So I decided to look for 4.5" aluminum pipe.........and found some:

https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7528&step=4&showunits=inches&id=71&top_cat=60
OD - 4.5"
ID - 4.25"
Wall thickness - 0.125"

A 72" section would hold 4.42 gallons of (potentially) heated water. Now my question:

Would it be feasible to use the commonly available 4" (actual 4.5") PVC caps and fittings? I can't see why not. My only concern would be what glue to use. I would not consider this to be potable water, but also would not want some chemical to leach and become an irritant.

The cost difference is huge! A 6' section of 4.5" aluminum pipe will run about $100 (plus shipping unless you can find something local). Ten feet of 4" PVC is $16. Regardless, you could construct something for far less that the MSRP on the Road Shower.

Here is a nice example of a PVC unit -
 
It is not so easy to get paint to stick well to aluminum, if one were going to paint it black.

Should be an interesting project though.

While I find I can easily do a full body scrub with 2 to 2.5 gallons, with short hair, I usually use all 5.
 
that aluminum pipe has 1/8 inch thick walls. I think you would want thinner wall pipe transfer the heat quicker. have you tried agriculture irrigation pipe it's very thin wall = lite weight. end caps are available. you would save a few pounds. if you are around farms just start asking, farmers always have a piece that got run over by a tractor and you could use the rest. highdesertranger
 
I read the history on the "RoadShower" too, and saw how and why they decided to make the switch to aluminum.  
Makes perfect sense.  Aluminum is much better at transferring heat than plastic.  
Thing is, plastic (ABS) is a lot cheaper than aluminum, easier to find, easier to work with and easier to repair in the middle of nowhere.  

As for heating it in winter, you can simply heat a gallon of water on your stove and add it to the tank.  Yes, it's a PITA, but it works.  
Filling the tank is easy for me.  The filler spout is about 7' off the ground, but at 6' 4.5", I have no trouble reaching it.   
I also never drain the shower all the way, so carrying a garden hose isn't necessary.  I use about a gallon of water per shower, so refilling it with a 1 Gal. plastic H2O bottle is all it takes. 

I've heard nothing but good things about the bag-style solar showers, but when you drive a tiny Transit Connect, space is at a premium.  For me to use the bag type, I'd have to make room for the bag AND the water to put in it.......  unless I planned to fill it in camp with creek water or sacrifice my good drinking water supply for bathing duties.  
By mounting the shower-tube to the roof and keeping water in it at all times, I open up a lot of space inside the van.  

I'll admit that if I were full-timing in my van, this system would suck rocks, but I'm not and I don't plan to... Not in this van anyway.  
This van is strictly for kayak camping trips and for my 5 mile commute to work.  :D
Generally when I standing under the shower head on my van, I've just come out of the 52 degree waters of the Pacific Ocean off Mendocino, so even lukewarm water feels hot by comparison.  :p

 
Yep, my shower bag basically is always taking up my front passenger seat, where it is most out of the way. But it is also close to my dashboard and where I rinse off/ soap crevices remove sunscreen after a surf. I rarely have passengers.

The 12v heating pad is also a nice option, especially if I am plugged into grid.

Is there the plastic Smell of the warm water from the ABS? When the water bags are new there is, but it wears off. The hose I usually fill mine with imparts that hose stink unless I run the standing water out of it before putting it into the bag. The hose water is usually hot from the sun and I waste that heat, but I don't want the hose chemicals that leech into the water and the nearby plants benefit from the watering.

I use mine to wash dishes too.
 
BigT said:
...
I'll admit that if I were full-timing in my van, this system would suck rocks, 
...

BigT, thanks for the explanation.  Can you say more about why it would be worse if full-timing?

My only guess so far is that it seems like a relatively complicated and expensive way to carry such a small amount of water.  When I first imagined these, I was thinking 30 gallons, etc.  But it turns out that most are closer to 5 gallons, which can probably be done in easier ways. This is only considering construction and transport, not solar heating.

Vagabound
 
Anybody else ever consider wrapping some copper tubing around an engine exhaust component and pumping water through it for heating a separate reservoir of H20?

I just saw this 12vDC hot water circulation pump:

https://www.amazon.com/bayite-BYT-7...rs=11388983011&ie=UTF8&qid=1475557788&sr=8-24

So much gas and diesel is wasted as heat when an engine is running, seem a a waste to not try and capture some of it.


Perhaps the reservoir could be dual purpose for heating the interior of the van overnight too
 
Been pondering this PVC vs. aluminum thing. Without knowing for sure, I can accept that the aluminum would heat up faster. However, if so, wouldn't the reverse also have to be true -- aluminum would lose the heat / cool off faster than PVC also?

Vagabound
 
Aluminum would transfer the heat from warm water to cooler atmosphere faster.

Airflow/wind/sliptream over it would greatly increase this heat loss from the water too.

Everything is a compromise.
 
SternWake said:
Aluminum would transfer the heat from warm water to cooler atmosphere faster.

Airflow/wind/sliptream over it would greatly increase this heat loss from the water too.

Everything is a compromise.

So, I guess that aluminum would be like this ...

Pros:
* Faster water heating in a given amount of sun
* More water heating on a cloudy day

Cons:
* Faster heat loss after air is cooler than water
* Faster heat loss while driving
* Cost
* Fabrication complexity
* Less resistance to damage

Anyone see any others?

Vagabound
 
wrapping copper tubing around your exhaust is exactly how gold dredgers do it so they can dive in cold water. in fact 2 weeks ago on Bearing Sea Gold one of their heaters went out and they showed them making a new one. there used to be a bolt on one being manufactured for small engines, Honda and Briggs. if anyone decides to build one of these be careful, the water can get extremely hot. do not try to make a closed system unless you use a good pressure relief valve. highdesertranger
 
Vagabound said:
BigT, thanks for the explanation.  Can you say more about why it would be worse if full-timing?

My only guess so far is that it seems like a relatively complicated and expensive way to carry such a small amount of water.  When I first imagined these, I was thinking 30 gallons, etc.  But it turns out that most are closer to 5 gallons, which can probably be done in easier ways.  This is only considering construction and transport, not solar heating.

Vagabound

The PITA comment depends on where you're living.  Out in the boondocks, no problem, but spend any time in town, and forget it.  Nobody wants to see you buck-ass naked, sudsing up next to your rig.  
Personally I'd prefer my shower be inside the van so I could use it whenever and wherever I like, but that's not an option at this point.  

As for capacity, 5-6 gallons is plenty for 5 to 6 showers.  If you don't shower every day, it could last two weeks.  Plus, as I say, I tend to refill it after a shower, so it stays full.  

You do realize you're not leaving the water on while singing a tune, right? :p   You take "Navy Showers" with a system like this, so the usage is minimal.

As to SW's question about the taste...  I can't really say.  I don't drink the water in the tube, I just shower and wash my boat, gear and panel with it.  
I also wash it out from time to time with soapy water or bleach or both.
 
BigT said:
...
You do realize you're not leaving the water on while singing a tune, right? :p   You take "Navy Showers" with a system like this, so the usage is minimal.
...

What?!?  Well, then I don't want it!  And I already received the pond pump and showerhead to connect to the PVC pipe thingee!  

:mad:

Vagabound

P.S. - They were all out of the chick.  She's on back order.
 
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