Public Land and forest Banning Camping?

[steveca4]

Is the Western US seeing a lot of forest and public lands closed to Campers?

 

[bullfrog]

Southern Utah Wayne county is 93% government controlled. Off road highway legal vehicles are mainly the campers vehicle of choice and now that some roads and trails are opening up to UTVs tourism is being promoted more than ever by local governments. Main closures here are due to the drought. Lake Powell is down to about 1/3 of its capacity. Fire crews are already working in northern Arizona. Certain areas will be evacuated and possibly closed. The cooler higher elevation places that are near population centers are the only closures I have heard of like some areas around Flagstaff Arizona. Most hot lower elevation areas are not over crowed during the summer so seldom is closure necessary unless due to fire hazards. I was told though that Caballo Loco RV park in southern Arizona where I have a year round lot has a waiting list I was told so it is definitely changing.

 

[Boutdun]

Do you know of what areas around flagstaff have closed? I am presently just outside Sedona and was leaving Thursday for a camp just west of flagstaff. Elevation is about 6,500’ and was hoping to hang out a couple of weeks before heading ne. Any specifics?

 

[bullfrog]

Many established popular national park and state campgrounds are crowed and are limiting the number of visitors as well as using a reservation system but dispersed public camping and access to public lands has always been promoted by local governments here as tourism is the main business, to a point when the national forest rangers attempted to close some ATV trails a few years ago the Sheriff and State Representative and a crowd of locals drew guns on the 2 rangers and suggested they leave then preceded to reopen the trails.

 

[crofter]

Glad I'm staying down here.

You can google the national forest camp that you are interested in, and will see any alerts (closures) on the main page. Likewise for BLM camps, they have listed closures on their page.

Keep in mind that many higher elevation areas may not open until May or June when they plow the snow (or it melts).
-crofter

 

[bullfrog]

Best way to check Flagstaff is to contact the forest service office there and get their map, be sure they show you where you are allowed to camp. I believe the A1A area was being discussed last I heard. there is a Cracker Barrel as well as a Piolet on I40 just in case.

 

[JasonMcD]

This is why i like a stealth build van, its easier to park in towns and cities and gives me versatility so i don't always have to rely on public or blm land. I try to do around 70% rural 30% urban overnighting.

 

[Boutdun]

Thank you for the suggestions, I’m on it.
?

 

[MotorVation]

There is a lot of National Forest dispersed camping around Williams, west of Flagstaff. I was there last year for a couple weeks. The south entrance to the Grand Canyon is a couple hours from Williams. There's also dispersed camping off that road on the way to the canyon. Depending on the snow melt, some roads, sites can be soggy. I haven't been up there yet this year so I can only speak about last spring

 

[Boutdun]

Outside of Williams is exactly where I am going, it had snow flurries Monday night but going to 70 for the rest of the week while here outside Sedona going to 88, time to leave.
?

 

[highdesertranger]

This subject comes up every so often. I don't see mass closing but I do see targeted closings. Mostly in areas that the rangers have a hard time keeping up with people.

To many people in a given area means to many slobs which in turn gets an area closed. Most people are not slobs, however a certain percent of the population is, no matter where they live. So the more people the more slobs.

Lets not forget plain old overuse. To many people to often doesn't give the land time to heal even if they are not slobs.

This is why I am against these people saying go here and go there. They are advertising certain areas which leads to overuse. There making money off all this which is the saddest part of all. For a buck they are ruining some areas.

So there is my rant.

Highdesertranger

 

[Boutdun]

The very reason I did not disclose my exact destination. I sometimes find it shocking the amount of “stuff” left behind. Buying more garbage bags tomorrow just in case there needs to be some spring cleaning at my new location.
?
️

 

[Malamute]

This subject comes up every so often.  I don't see mass closing but I do see targeted closings.  Mostly in areas that the rangers have a hard time keeping up with people.

To many people in a given area means to many slobs which in turn gets an area closed.  Most people are not slobs,  however a certain percent of the population is,  no matter where they live.  So the more people the more slobs.

Lets not forget plain old overuse.  To many people to often doesn't give the land time to heal even if they are not slobs.

This is why I am against these people saying go here and go there.  They are advertising certain areas which leads to overuse.  There making money off all this which is the saddest part of all.  For a buck they are ruining some areas.

So there is my rant.

Highdesertranger

 Agree on all counts, well said.

 Many places I frequented ages ago in Az with zero issues or closures (other than fire risk closures) are now subject to limitations and closures, its part of the current reality. I dont see it as the end of the world or the end of camping, just the reality of large numbers of people using limited space and the resulting impact of use and and abuse.

 Looking at the maps and info online from the past year or two, it looks like most closures are the easy places close to towns and more heavily used areas. Get farther out, and there doesnt seem to be a problem. Yet.
 
 Some of this has to do with how and why people are camping. I partly did it for convenience at times, and the places close to towns were handy, though I often just wanted to be somewhere spectacular, or more what the overlander types seem to be seeking today.

 

[MotorVation]

Well yeah, there are people out there who are spreading this information widely. In fact, a movie about it just won best picture of the year, and the actress who starred in it won best actress. Go figure  

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

From my cracked and cloudy crystal ball:

Restrictions were eventually going to happen; COVID restrictions have speeded it up.  Outdoor activities were about the only minimally restricted activity people had.  Minnesota state parks saw 30% of their visitors were first time campers in 2020.

The proposed restrictions for Alabama Hills gives insight into the thinking of those tasked with managing our public land.  I expect this to happen sooner than later in our most popular areas and eventually all public land:

https://www.inyoregister.com/content/blm-proposes-camping-limits-alabama-hills

 

[Malamute]

The post above about the Alabama Hills reminded me of something. In the late 80s or early 90s someone told me that ALL National Forests in California were closed, you couldnt go do ANYTHING in them. AT ALL. Gated. Locked. Stay out. I asked if it was just fire restrictions, local thing or what, and was told "NO, IT ALL NATIONAL FORESTS, YOU CANT GO IN THEM AT ALL, FOR ANY REASON, THEYRE CLOSING THEM IN CALIFORNIA AND WILL HERE (AZ) AND EVERYWHERE ELSE TOO BEFORE LONG, ITS THE GOVERNMENT TRYING TO BLAH BLAH..." Such was the state of conspiracy theories in that pre-internet period. I suspected it was baloney at the time, and obviously was in retrospect, but had no way of knowing then.

Yes, I think some closures and restrictions are inevitable, some probably may seem unjust, though I suspect theres reasonable reasoning behind much of it. Use an area hard, and with little break, and increasing hard use, somethings going to give. That people abuse the areas only speeds it up unfortunately. The areas ive been frequenting in the N Rockies the past 30 or so years hasnt had any closures other than fire restrictions and some localized camping closures after bears eat people and stuff, but the widespread closures because scary nefarious reasons hasnt materialized.

 

[crofter]

Sounds like BLM is pretty serious about making changes in their management of Alabama Hills (Calif), including cutting camping spot numbers in half, also access could be limited for handicap people who need to drive to their destination: due to roads closed to motorized travel.

I personally agree on the proposed shooting ban:  I practice at a gun range where it is safer and not where people camp.  In forest service camps there is a safety buffer around campgrounds where shooting is prohibited, and no one is complaining about that. 

There are also planned restrictions on flying drones and installing bolted climbing routes, can be noisey activities but heartily enjoyed by the participants.

 Too late to affect the process by commenting (we were busy with covid stuff), here is their plan.
https://eplanning.blm.gov/eplanning-ui/project/1502669/570

-crofter

 

[crofter]

The new plan says there are 80 dispersed campsites at Tuttle creek now, I think there were more previously? They are still working on the plan as appeals period closed in February of this year. Also if they are doing construction work to build toilets, they usually close nearby areas temporarily for safety reasons.
-crofter