Planning trailer-based woodgasification system, to attain the open road.

[debit.servus]

WriterMs...
BUT, that is predicated on being able to acquire the wood at a price and in a quantity that makes sense. I also know that some systems can use other burnable fuels including, I believe, very dry dung. Though I have read you will not be popular when you drive through populated places because there is some odor involved. There are also charcoal gasifiers & gas bag powered vehicles. I have looked into all the underunity fuel options and woodgasification is fundamentally the best.

Free wood or inexpensive wood is hard to find. Other parts of the country yes. ...  I would definitely do some research on the cost of wood in the areas I would be passing through. The more wood that can be carried, the less I will need to worry about reloading/refueling. This is the reason I want the largest trailer I can afford, and the van can pull.

The woodgas experts in the Driveonwood forum shared I would be burning two pounds of wood a mile. This is why I want the largest trailer the van can pull loaded for most wood capacity. The van is rated at 4000 lbs max pulling capacity, meaning if the system weighs 600 pounds, the empty flatbed sided trailer weighs 400 pounds (noob in the world of trailers since I have never owned one) there is 3000 pounds of wood capacity. At two pounds of wood burned per mile, that is 1500 miles of range give or take. This is enough fuel to get to Medicine Hat, AB, from San Jose. My only concern right now about this trip is whether I could take the wood into CANADA or have to dump it near the border and run on gas the hundred+ miles to my relatives house. Also what the border agent would think about the huge metal refinery looking thing on the trailer, aka the woodgasification system.

I know enough about woodgasification at this point to know the feasibility & running costs. Even running fully on gas for the last 100 miles of a 1000+ mile road trip I am still ahead.

I can understand that the thought of doing this is exciting, doing something innovative like that would be.  I wish you all the luck in the world with your project but do prioritize as someone mentioned. I am prioritizing, everytime I think of buying something I think "will this get me to my relatives in CANADA?". Time slips away and frustration can suck the life out of you. Like the frustration of being stuck in San Jose, CA?

 

[Almost There]

My only concern right now about this trip is whether I could take the wood into CANADA or have to dump it near the border and run on gas the hundred+ miles to my relatives house. Also what the border agent would think about the huge metal refinery looking thing on the trailer, aka the woodgasification system.

No, you can't bring firewood in to Canada from the US. Heck, in many parts of the continent you can't transport firewood from one county to another.

Insect spread such as the Emerald Ash Borer and the Western Pine Beetle have resulted in millions of trees being decimated all over the place, a lot of it caused by seemingly innocuous transportation of firewood.

Here, I looked it up for you - a state by state map of which ones have firewood movement regulations.

http://www.dontmovefirewood.org/the-problem/state-state-information/index.html

As to the huge metal refinery thingie on your trailer...Good Luck. And if you get in to Canada, good luck getting it back in to the US.

 

[GotSmart]

You forgot one or two little details.  

How many places, (Especially CA) will allow an experimental monstrosity to be driven on the highway without special permits?  What about the special studies required to prove the system you propose to build?

How do you propose to take care of this detail?

[font=Arial, sans-serif]"Gasification is usually carried out at a temperature in the range of about 650 C to 1200 C, either under vacuum, at atmospheric pressure or at pressures up to about 100 atmospheres".[/font]

Beside the fact of who and how will the system be built if you do not deal in currency?  You do not have a basic understanding of how things work, and argue over the silliest things. (Such as going to the car wash.) 

On a personal note, What are you smoking, and how can I get some?  

 

[debit.servus]

Before this thread gets too out of hand with people making assumptions based on Woodgasification systems from WW2, I have to add that I am a premium member of driveonwood.com . Here is my thread: http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/trailer-based-woodgas-system-for-conversion-van/2050/12

I know enough about woodgasification to know it is fundamentally the best & cheapest (in both Money & Time) alternative fuel for a gasoline powered van. Woodgas takes wood, which is not dense like gasoline; which requires processing. Said processing is sweaty work, which is still cheaper than gasoline for me because I value my time at $6 an hour.

I have known about woodgasification for over a year and it's my one underunity option that enables me AND the van to travel thousands of miles.

P.S.: There are more posts in the other thread that I need to quote in this thread.

 

[SoulRaven]

With liquid motor fuel available on every corner and its current price adjusted for inflation the lowest of all time one has to ask the question what is the cost of a BTU of wood gas minus the efficiency loss in the gasification process?

 

[GotSmart]

I am reading the thread you linked to.  It seems there are a couple details you are ignoring... 

Do you have access to a welder and a scrap yard?

[font='Open Sans', sans-serif]http://forum.driveonwood.com/users/alextaylor62[/font]

[font='Open Sans', sans-serif]alextaylor62Alex Taylor
Oct 27
[/font]
[font='Open Sans', sans-serif]Paul,
Seems to me you have two things you need to do before you do anything else:
1) Buy Wayne's book, read it cover to cover about three times. Watch ALL the build videos and read all the premium-side build threads. Once you've done this, most of your questions will be answered.
2) After that, if you still feel inspired, then look for a welder you can afford, and learn how to use it. As Chris suggested earlier, you will NEVER build a WK gasifier on the cheap without this skill. In fact, unless you have as extensive a scrap yard as Wayne does, you will never do it for less than a couple thousand dollars.[/font]

How about a Oxy or Plasma system and about $10,000 in specialty tools?

The 250 hours are what it would take an experienced craftsman with all the proper tools to build the system.

[font='Open Sans', sans-serif]http://forum.driveonwood.com/users/TomC[/font]

[font='Open Sans', sans-serif]omCTom Collins (Crivitz, Wi.)
Oct 27
[/font]

[font='Open Sans', sans-serif]Mr. Paul; Some times I am just to blunt. All of us want to see more people get into the beauty of woodgas. But by not coming right out and telling you how it is, I believe they are misleading into an impossible situation,
To start off a 7,000 lb. van with a 318 will not cruise down the road at 65 mph. With a 1000 lb. gasifier on the back bumper, you would be lucky to get 60 mph. Put the gasifier on a trailer and load 750 lb of wood and your are going to be limited to 50 mpe. Now try to climb up the slighest grade and you are looking a possibly a top speed of 40 mph.
To build a gasifier of any kind you are NOT going to buy a couple of 55 gal drums and have a welder weld them into a gasifier. To start with you say you don't have a welder. Even if you get one, you have been told it isn't hard to learn to weld. I'm here to say you couldn't pick a harder project to learn to weld on. The welds have to be perfect so that there are no pin holes air leaks in the welds --- we aren't just "sticking" two pieces of metal together. I don't know of anyone who has built a gasifier with just a welder. You also need a way of cutting metal such as an oxy-acetene torch or a plasma cutter. Then you need a bunch of hand tools including grinders and clamps, vise grips etc.
I presume you are retired so you may have the time. For a compitent craftsman it has been said that it takes 250 hr. Working steady that is 6 1/2 weeks. Working part time that number goes up to "months". In with that are trips around to scrounge materials. This stuff does not just fall into your lap.
Now you get it done and the work continues. Contrary to many beliefs, you don't just throw any old material into the hopper. I am going to say," you have to have a specific size of properly dried wood blocks/chunks". No chips or just busted up limbs. You will have to have chuncks around 2x2x3 to 2x2x6. You will not find wood of this size free for the picking up. You may get good dried wood at a construction sight that is 2x4, but you will have to cut it to length. If you get tree cuttings limbs will have to be run through a chunker, that you will also have to make. If the wood is logs, you have to cut them into 2 inch slabs and then take a hatched and chop them into a usable size. If it is limbs or logs, then the wood has to be dried ( after processing to size)
And finally, you continually have to do maintenance work on the gasifier, such as empty ashes, drain condensate tanks and clean the soot out of the cooling pipes. 
I am NOT trying to dissuade you, I just want you to have real expectations.TomC[/font]

They also have said the same thing as us here.

[font='Open Sans', sans-serif]http://forum.driveonwood.com/users/Chris[/font]

[font='Open Sans', sans-serif]ChrisChris Saenz
Oct 28

http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/trailer-based-woodgas-system-for-conversion-van/2050/30
[img=20x20]http://forum.driveonwood.com/user_a...m/billschiller/40/119_1.png[/img]BillSchiller:
[/font]

This will be my last response

This is my last post as well. You've heard what we all have to say... Until you start building something there's nothing left to discuss.
Feel free to start a new thread documenting your project. The present discussion has run its course.

[font='Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]3 Li[/font]​

[font='Open Sans', sans-serif]
[img=25x25]http://forum.driveonwood.com/user_avatar/forum.driveonwood.com/chris/25/12230_1.png[/img]
CLOSED OCT 28[/font]

 

[Sabatical]

I read through the driveonwood forum thread. Wow there's no sugar coating from that group. You certainly have quite a job ahead of you, but if you are serious and show those folks some effort, it sounds like you'll get the guidance you need. It also sounds like this "hobby" will be a full-time occupation if you want to live the travelling life with a wood gasifier.
My hat's off to you Paul. You definately don't sound scared of this project an i'll bet if you do the research and put the time in, you'll have a real nice rig.

 

[highdesertranger]

I will say this from first hand experience it is getting harder to transport firewood across state lines. I have been specifically asked at the CA AG inspection stations if I was carrying any firewood. I wasn't but if I was it would have been confiscated on the spot. another point you need a permit(money) to harvest wood on public land for anything other than a camp fire, if you are in an area were you actually can harvest wood. you do realize that pound for pound gasoline has a higher BTU rating then any wood. also you are going to need seasoned wood this means you will need to buy it, firewood is not cheap in some areas, gas is much cheaper as far as BTU output per given weight. so after all this if you think you are going to save money, go for it. most of those people over on that forum you linked to have a cheap source of wood. you do not. highdesertranger

 

[jimindenver]

I'm wondering about driving it through areas with fire bans.

 

[highdesertranger]

I was going to ask that also Jim. but I figured I had already given him enough to contemplate. at the very least he must have a USFS spark arrestor, this is 100% of the time even without restrictions. highdesertranger

 

[debit.servus]

Debit Servus Trailer-based WK Gasifier project
Premium WK Projects
 
debit.servusPaul
15d
1
This is the thread for my woodgasification System project, building from the Wayne Keith gasifier plans.
I have acquired the book & read it halfway through. It is hard for a visual learner to visualize the build process from text descriptions and the few images in the book. I need to lookup videos of people building WK gasifiers.
This was my thread for introductory questions:

I have been researching wood gasification for over a year, and being a poor boy the main thing that has held me back from building a system is the money. Other that that is has been cracking (pun intended) water to provide overunity Hydrogen and Oxygen gas to run an engine. I found ready made systems that can run a car or truck costing thousands, and know my only option is to build one from scratch. I am not a welder and would have to hire a seam welder to join the components together. I know…

I have a few substitutions I am thinking of using to get up and running ASAP:
-For the radiator fins outside of the firetube, I thought of using JB WELD to hold the fins in place so I could focus energy to the permanent weld.
-I am thinking of unconventional material sources, like cutting an old BBQ up to get metal plates and other materials to build the System from.
-Could I get away with cheap cooling pipes and thin walls on every component other than the gasifier? This is just to get up and running quicker and will be upgraded later with the money not going into gasoline. The gasifier is the most complex component on the entire System, I am planning on building this component decently at the expense of the other components. Because it would take a lot of work to cut apart and rebuild the gasifier with quality components.
-I just came up with this idea for the firetube fins. if I acquired a broken window air conditioner, could I cut the hot side radiator out, do "relief cuts" on the refigerant tubes (If I would go for this, I would try to get an A/C with no refigerant left in the system) and bend the "fins" around the firetube?


[img=45x45]http://forum.driveonwood.com/user_avatar/forum.driveonwood.com/chris/45/12230_1.png[/img]
ChrisChris Saenz
15d

It is hard for a visual learner to visualize the build process from text descriptions and the few images in the book.

That's why we have a full video tutorial. http://www.driveonwood.com/premium/construction/2

using JB WELD to hold the fins in place

No, it's not rated for the heat. It won't transfer heat well at all, compared to steel welds.

cutting an old BBQ up to get metal plates

It depends, it can work OK to reuse materials just watch out with the thin stuff... it is hard to weld and rusts through quickly. Clean and paint any rusty metal.
=====================

cheap cooling pipes and thin walls on every component other than the gasifier? This is just to get up and running quicker...

Yes. But this will incur Technical Debt. This concept comes from software, but applies here.
en.wikipedia.org
Technical debt

Technical debt (also known as design debt or code debt) is a recent[when?] metaphor referring to the eventual consequences of any system design, software architecture or software development within a codebase. The debt can be thought of as work that needs to be done before a particular job can be considered complete or proper. If the debt is not repaid, then it will keep on accumulating interest, making it hard to implement changes later on. Unaddressed technical debt increases software entrop An...

You can carry some technical debt, and repay it later. IF you are experienced enough. Otherwise, anything you save in material costs will be repaid many times over in frustration and unreliable operation. An experienced operator can "get away with it" - sometimes, by knowing where to skimp and what will break first. A new operator will have a hard time with this.
Now, since you apparently have no other choice, and assuming you understand the technical debt that must be carried, then do what you have to. Better to be running an engine and learning then dreaming about someday running. Just be aware, this is a tough row to hoe.
The main thing that will make this work is your enthusiasm and dogged perserverance. If you don't have that quality in spades, I'm afraid you won't get very far.


Chris Saenz
15d

-I just came up with this idea for the firetube fins. if I acquired a broken window air conditioner, could I cut the hot side radiator out, do "relief cuts" on the refigerant tubes (If I would go for this, I would try to get an A/C with no refigerant left in the system) and bend the "fins" around the firetube?

Those fins are usually aluminum, can't weld to steel. They are far too thin to weld to the firetube, and not designed to shed the amount of heat we're talking about.
With all due respect, why are you trying to redesign this? I thought you were doing it "right" on the gasifier, because it's hard to rebuild later? This is literally the heart of the gasifier. We can't help you if you don't stick to the plans.
Do what Wayne does, get Wayne's results. Find some 16 gauge metal, cut it into 1" strips, and start welding.




 
debit.servusPaul
15d
1
JB WELD won't transfer the heat nor be a permanent solution, what I was asking was could I use JB weld to hold the fins down so I can concentrate on the steel welds to permanently bond the fins.
"It depends, it can work OK to reuse materials just watch out with the thin stuff... it is hard to weld and rusts through quickly. Clean and paint any rusty metal." Would thin stainless steel would be OK?
Thanks! I just learned a new term "Technical Debt"! I will keep that in mind for everything from now on.
"You can carry some technical debt, and repay it later. IF you
are experienced enough. Otherwise, anything you save in material costs
will be repaid many times over in frustration and unreliable operation.
An experienced operator can "get away with it" - sometimes, by knowing
where to skimp and what will break first. A new operator will have a
hard time with this. " I am planning to stick to the stock plans and reccommendations, following everything in the book.
"Those fins are usually aluminum, can't weld to steel. They are far
too thin to weld to the firetube, and not designed to shed the amount of
heat we're talking about.
With all due respect, why are you trying to redesign this? I thought
you were doing it "right" on the gasifier, because it's hard to rebuild
later? This is literally the heart of the gasifier. We can't help you if you don't stick to the plans. "
I just came up with that idea and quickly edited it in. For the fins I plan to call up sawmills and ask for their old and dull sawblades.
Didn't know that about aluminum to steel, need to take Welding 101.
Excuse me as I am just getting started, I am currently in the material gathering & learning stage right now.
When I experience my first seam welds, using scrap metal I don't care for. Would it be a good idea to weld with the same wire I will be welding with to build the System?
I am not trying to redesign, just asking about substiutions like the book reccommends. I will leave the redesigns and ideas testing to those with four or more digit bank account balances and the experts.



Chris Saenz
15d

call up sawmills and ask for their old and dull sawblades.

Those will work great. Wayne has used them for years.

When I experience my first seam welds, using scrap metal I don't care for. Would it be a good idea to weld with the same wire I will be welding with to build the System?

Yes. You should use the same wire and settings, and practice on scrap metal of similar thickness to what you're going to use. Even the pro's will do this sometimes, when switching to much thicker or thinner metals, just to get the machine set correctly, and get the feel of it back into your hands.
Be sure to clean the metal thoroughly. Use an angle grinder to get down to bare shiny metal before welding.
We have a bunch of welding tips here: http://www.driveonwood.com/library/welding/1


debit.servusPaul
15d
1
"Use an angle grinder to get down to bare shiny metal before welding." I know what most types of bare shiny metal looks like. An angle grinder is designed more to cut and not sand. I have access to a sander and also have metal brush wheels that attach to a powerdrill. With most of the basic tools which are required for building a woodgas system.
I wish I could take out a loan to build or buy a woodgas system (if a steal of a deal comes up) then pay it back with the money saved not burning gasoline. Perhaps somebody here can offer Wood Gas Loans, collateralized or unsecured depending on ones credit score. Just be sure to be open to everybody; bad credit, no credit, doesn't matter. So sub-prime people like me have a chance to get ahead.
Perhaps sell woodgas systems in a car loan type arrangement, so people can start running on wood and become free from gasoline right away!
If I had money I would preferably buy a ready-made wood gasification system. Or somebody elses homebuilt woodgasification system, or the high quality materials and high-end welder to build my own.


Chris Saenz
15d
Just a pro tip, since you're posting so much so fast, and doing a lot of quoting....
Select some text to quote, and a button pops up with "quote reply". This inserts the code to make the little grey boxes. It just makes reading a little easier, no biggie.
================

JB weld to hold the fins down so I can concentrate on the steel welds

OK, I misunderstood. This is not necessary. You will be setting up fins and tack welding them so quickly that you can just hold them by hand, or with a clamp. You can't stage more than one at a time anyway, because you need the room for the welding torch on the open side.

Would thin stainless steel would be OK?

Thin is still hard to weld. Different expansion rates mean you can't weld steel to stainless and expect it to last. Plus the welded areas will still rust. Given that, yes stainless will work in some situations.

I am not trying to redesign, just asking about substiutions

That's fine! I do the same all the time. Understanding it better will guide your substitutions.





[img=45x45]http://forum.driveonwood.com/user_avatar/forum.driveonwood.com/wayne/45/9839_1.png[/img]
Wayne Keith ( Springville AL )
14d

"Use an angle grinder to get down to bare shiny metal before welding." I know what most types of bare shiny metal looks like. An angle grinder is designed more to cut and not sand. I have access to a sander and also have metal brush wheels that attach to a powerdrill. With most of the basic tools which are required for building a woodgas system.

Good morning Paul,
Heavy rains in Alabama so good day to stay inside catching up on computer work and reading through the threads .
I noticed you mention sanders vs the angle grinder . I have a couple of sanders but have never used them building a gasifier. However I keep a little angle girder handy and use it often . In seconds I can switch from an 8 inch disc to a 4 inch and also attach a brush if needed . I think one can pick up these little girders near 30 bucks .
Thanks
Wayne



 
alextaylor62Alex Taylor
14d
Paul,
Look for something similar to this for your angle grinder. Works great for pre-welding metal prep.:
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?productId=47473679



 Chris Saenz
14d
2
I found a much cheaper source of those... Lehigh Valley Abrasives for $2 a piece. Good quality too!
http://www.lehighvalleyabrasives.com/coated-abrasives-4-5-x-7-8-zirconia-flap-disc-type-29-conical-40-grit-t29-lva-cfcas45s040zx-fd4-5-40zc2
[img=398x397]http://forum.driveonwood.com/upload...7f3c88325ef2def101735df516e2da6dc9b.png[/img]
And, if you have a Harbor Freight nearby, they have angle grinders for $15, sometimes less with coupons.






[img=45x45]http://forum.driveonwood.com/user_avatar/forum.driveonwood.com/brianhwa/45/11361_1.png[/img]
BrianHWABrian Hamalainen (Chimacum, OlyPen, WA)
13d
I'll note that the sanding flap discs in @Chris link are designed to be used on steel/hard metals, while the Lowe's discs are designed for wood/soft metals and should have much better life span for our purposes.



debit.servusPaul
12d
Everybody should have an angle grinder in their toolbox!
I didn't know there was more than one kind of wheel to fit onto an angle grinder.
Thanks for sharing Lehigh Valley Abrasives!!! I will be ordering from them soon! I couldn't find shipping costs on their website, do they offer free shipping over a certain order amount? Because I don't want to pay more than a couple dollars to ship a couple wheels.
For Harbor Freight I have one 3 miles away. I almost always use (sometimes I forget the coupons at home) their coupons, especially the 20% off and Free Item coupons. HFT is my favorite hardware store until I am pulling at least 3 times the income I am now. I dream however of owning tools that are high quality, lasting for years and years if not for life.
I am good with buying somebodys already built WK gasifier if they can offer special financing or be up for bartering. I am not counting on an attaniable offer coming up for me, so I plan to build my own.
Heres a frugal tip: Think about the dollars, not the pennies. Don't worry about the pennies, nickels or dimes. When you save a dollar you just saved 100 pennies! Be penny foolish and pound wise.
This is a completely new forum system for me, it is not like other forums I post on that use vBulletin or similar backend forum software. I would love to see the option to switch to a vBulletin or siminar forum interface.
Some basic information about me: I am a 22 year old maverick boi living in San Jose, CA with a 3 digit monthly income and a desire to explore the US & Canada.



 
dmackgD. Mack Gilliam
12d
I must be from the old school.......Take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.

Tim Hiebert
12d

Paul,
In reference to JB Weld use- this is and epoxy based adhesive. It does not tolerate the heat levels produced by welding and will melt/fail and then burn. The epoxy fumes are really bad to breath too! You can hand hold the fins and tack them every few inches, then come back and weld them on permanently.

 
debit.servusPaul
11d
2 http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/debit-servus-trailer-based-wk-gasifier-project/2096

_____Why was my post flagged?
_____I need to go to SIMS metal and look at the metal they have for sale. Also get the general manager of a sawmill in Davenport live on the phone next week so I can acqire the used sawblades.
I am checking Craigslist free section for free metal, the pickings are slim because there are lots of spanish who pick up free scrap metal and cash it in at SIMS metal, getting by on the profits.
_____I am thinking of building the gasifier first, as it's the hardest component, making the other components feel easy. Or should I go in reverse? build the easy components first (less critical welds) then build the gasifier with improved welding skill.
_____Also, for the cooling rails, Would it be a good idea to substitute an old car radiator or two?
_____My dream is for the woodgas System to be on the largest capacity trailer the van can pull, so whatever pulling capacity the back-end hitch reciever is rated for. Not just for wood capacity but paid transposting to pay for travel expenses, maintaining the van, woodgas System and trailer.



WayneWayne Keith ( Springville AL )
11d
Hello Paul.
The automotive radiators will clog pretty quick.


debit.servusPaul
4d
_____Why was my previous post flagged?
_____Today I acquired carbon steel MIG welding wire, with alloy ER70S-6 (whatever that means) and .035 gauge, from HFT. I plan to practice weld with this. The book reccommends 87hp (HorsePower?) ESAB (is this an alloy as well?) wire.
_____Should I build the easy components first (less critical welds) then
build the gasifier with improved welding skill?
_____Excuse me for not living in a part of the country that has more resources for these kind of DIY projects.


[img=45x45]http://forum.driveonwood.com/user_avatar/forum.driveonwood.com/jeff/45/12537_1.png[/img]
JeffJeff Davis (Union City, PA)
4d

_____Why was my previous post flagged?

Hi Paul,
I haven't followed this but it's possible that people found some words that were a bit personally offensive. I would keep going forward.
Start welding some scrap first and next try welding a smaller simple component of your system. Others milage may vary.
It takes time to find the right material. Take your time.

Chris Saenz
4d

Today I acquired carbon steel MIG welding wire, with alloy ER70S-6 (whatever that means) and .035 gauge, from HFT. I plan to practice weld with this. The book reccommends 87hp (HorsePower?) ESAB (is this an alloy as well?) wire.

That's a pretty standard alloy wire, HFT quality is not great but it should weld OK. For the real thin stuff .023 will work better.
87hp ESAB wire is a different alloy wire made by the ESAB company. It welds well and it's what I use a lot. More expensive than the ER70S-6.

_____Why was my previous post flagged?

Posts are flagged by community members, not by staff. If three or more flags accumulate on your post, it will be hidden automatically and you will receive a message asking you to edit your post. Once you edit it, your post will re-appear. More about this process here:

You are now part of the most peaceful, focused and results oriented woodgas forum in internet history. This is not an accident, and we need your help to keep it this way. Here are some of the peacekeeping tools at your disposal: Ignore How do you kill a troll? You don't feed it. Simply ignoring a troublemaker is far easier than making a ruckuss, and it starves them of the one thing they want - attention. Maybe it's not a troll but a topic you don't like, or a discussion you'd rather not see i…

debit.servusPaul
6h

That's a pretty standard alloy wire, HFT quality is not great but it should weld OK.

_____Is the HFT quality wire good enough to practice on?
_____I will get the quality wire the book says to actually build the System. No cents of skimping here.

This is the premium-side thread in quotes.

I haven't shared the whole story yet.

 

[debit.servus]

With liquid motor fuel available on every corner and its current price adjusted for inflation the lowest of all time ... My wages haven't gone up with inflation.

Waay cheaper than gasoline, even with time and energy to procure and process the wood. I see piles of free wood on here all the time: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sby/zip. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sby/zip

... you do realize that pound for pound gasoline has a higher BTU rating then any wood. fuel-mile per fuel-mile gasoline has a higher cost than wood*...  most of those people over on that forum you linked to have a cheap source of wood. Most of those people are also established.

*If one procures their wood or free or next to free and takes advantage of the seasons.

I'm wondering about driving it through areas with fire bans.

I am not wondering about this right now. I can research every law in the books about transporting wood, and it could have changed by the time I am finished building the system. That is overplanning.

Think of woodgasification like going solar. It require a huge intial investment, but pays for itself in a few thousand miles (or less in my case because the van is getting 8-9mpg).

 

[29chico]

At one point I was interested in the wood gas concept.  Upon looking into it I discovered that many of the experts were warning that many kinds of wood were unsuitable for use in the process as they contained chemicals that would destroy an internal combustion engine very quickly.  Sending off samples to labs for analysis was highly recommended.

I do not know if the above was true.  I do know for a fact that I lost all interest in wood gas at that point.

 

[GotSmart]

So you are going to spending the money you (are saving) do not have upgrading the system (you do not have the money or skill to build) while traveling with a fuel source that cannot be transported across county or state lines.  :huh:

Once again, where is the initial investment coming from, and how will you do the upgrades if you can not tell one welding rod from another.  :huh:

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Think of woodgasification like going solar. It require a huge intial investment, but pays for itself in a few thousand miles (or less in my case because the van is getting 8-9mpg).[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]But you do not have the money to drive out of San Jose.  :huh: [/font]

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Having spent 40 years as a Mechanical Engineer in R&D, I can give you three rules that you will do well to heed:

1. it will take two to four times as long as you think,
2. it will take three times as much money as you budget,
3. Murphy was an optimist.

IMHO your two goals are incompatable:
building a wood gassifier vehicle and getting out of San Jose in a timely manner.

-- Spiff

 

[flying kurbmaster]

to me and I am no expert it seems like wood gasification would be suitable for an engine that is stationary with a good source of wood close at hand. like an irrigation pump, water pump, generator or the like, it also doesn' t seem like a very clean energy. What about building an electric van using scavenged parts.

 

[GrantRobertson]

Murphy was an optimist.

Murphy WAS an optimist. Note: The law states, "IF a thing CAN go wrong it will go wrong." It does not simply say that things will randomly go wrong. Thus, it is a call to look for all possible things that can go wrong and plan or design around them. OR have the ability and agility to work around them on the fly.

I live by Murphy's Law every day. People think I am a pessimist because I notice things that need to be fixed or improved everywhere. I feel I am an optimist because I can see how things can be better and usually, if naively, believe it is possible to get there.

With all that said, I agree with you. Thinking that wood gassification is a solution to not being able to afford a couple of tanks of gas is not entirely reasonable.

I too am a big fan of wood gassification. However, I think of it as an emergency solution for when gasoline is simply not available. I believe that day will come, and possibly in my lifetime, but not any time soon. It is a technology I want to have in my arsenal in case I need it ... someday.

 

[SoulRaven]

I'm afraid you're confusing possible with practical...

I read that you value your time at $6.00/hr, yet the minimum wage in your area is $10.30/hr. Give yourself a raise and get a job.

You are totally missing out on the obvious here, so let me explain a few basic facts of life to you that may help you out.

Since you obviously weren't born rich, that means you have to trade your time for the things you want in life. You can trade this time for goods, services, or money. Of these three choices, money makes the most sense because it can also buy you those goods and services, and in a much wider variety than you can easily obtain by trading your time for those goods or services directly.

Forget about doomsday. The scam artists have been hawking this stuff for my entire life, and I'm now 69 years old. History has proven that the victors in times of calamities, are those with either money or land.

Knowledge is power, and survival skills are great. But there is a proper time and place to put these things into practice. This is not the proper time or place for your wood gasifier plans to improve your life, instead it is a distraction.

You mentioned that your van get's 8-9 mpg. Many big motorhomes only get 4-6 mpg, yet many homeless and jobless people can afford to live in them and drive them. You need to learn to live and survive in the world we live in today, BEFORE you worry about what could happen, or you try to change the world. With all due respect, you don't have a good enough grasp on how life works to begin with, to have the ability to make intelligent decisions about this stuff.

For some reason, by reading your posts, I get the impression that you wish to remain outside the system. This is just another distraction from achieving your goals. While there's plenty of jobs that pay in cash, every day, you can not legally own a house or a vehicle without being in the system. Staying out of the system will limit you much more than being in the system.

You are stuck by your own doing, and only PROPER thinking, planning, and ACTION can set you free. This wood gasifier isn't going to set you free, it will only prolong your agony. You could take that trip cheaper than you could build a wood gasifier.

M-O-N-E-Y is your problem. With money, you can solve all of your problems almost instantly. Trade your time for good old fashioned money, by means of a job. You're talking about trading your time for the wood to be able to drive... Money is a lot more versatile, and you can make the money to buy the wood and have it delivered to you by putting in far less time than gathering the wood yourself. That free wood ISN'T FREE!!! It costs you time and money to collect it. The people giving away that free wood are shifting the cost of removal to YOU!

Go to the Day Labor place for almost instant jobs that pay cash daily, go to the temp agencies for quick jobs. Work and save your money then buy that wood gasifier, or have it built by a professional, if you haven't changed your mind by then. Don't be penny wise and dollar dumb, earning the money to obtain your goals is probably the easiest and quickest route to achieve them.

Life skills are what you need, and the most important one for you to learn first is how to make money. That's the world we live in today, and odds are that's the world you'll spend the rest of your life in.

50+ years ago there was a lot of talk about PEAK OIL, and how we would run out of gas and oil within 10 years. So the race was on and people went out and built electric cars, and cars powered by all sorts of alternative fuels. 50+ years later, gas is still the cheapest and most reliable and obtainable fuel source available, and if you pay attention you can buy one of those alternative fuel vehicles very cheaply.

You're young, and you haven't learned the ways of the world yet. People are selling you a lie packaged as a dream come true. In the end it's all about money, and THEY are the ones making it...

Attaining the open road is far far easier than wood gasification.

 

[gcal]

I'm afraid you're confusing possible with practical...

I read that you value your time at $6.00/hr, yet the minimum wage in your area is $10.30/hr.  Give yourself a raise and get a job.

You are totally missing out on the obvious here, so let me explain a few basic facts of life to you that may help you out.

Since you obviously weren't born rich, that means you have to trade your time for the things you want in life.  You can trade this time for goods, services, or money.  Of these three choices, money makes the most sense because it can also buy you those goods and services, and in a much wider variety than you can easily obtain by trading your time for those goods or services directly.

Forget about doomsday.  The scam artists have been hawking this stuff for my entire life, and I'm now 69 years old.  History has proven that the victors in times of calamities, are those with either money or land.

Knowledge is power, and survival skills are great.  But there is a proper time and place to put these things into practice.  This is not the proper time or place for your wood gasifier plans to improve your life, instead it is a distraction.

You mentioned that your van get's 8-9 mpg.  Many big motorhomes only get 4-6 mpg, yet many homeless and jobless people can afford to live in them and drive them.  You need to learn to live and survive in the world we live in today, BEFORE you worry about what could happen, or you try to change the world.  With all due respect, you don't have a good enough grasp on how life works to begin with, to have the ability to make intelligent decisions about this stuff.

For some reason, by reading your posts, I get the impression that you wish to remain outside the system.  This is just another distraction from achieving your goals.  While there's plenty of jobs that pay in cash, every day, you can not legally own a house or a vehicle without being in the system.  Staying out of the system will limit you much more than being in the system.

You are stuck by your own doing, and only PROPER thinking, planning, and ACTION can set you free.  This wood gasifier isn't going to set you free, it will only prolong your agony.  You could take that trip cheaper than you could build a wood gasifier.

M-O-N-E-Y is your problem.  With money, you can solve all of your problems almost instantly.  Trade your time for good old fashioned money, by means of a job.  You're talking about trading your time for the wood to be able to drive...  Money is a lot more versatile, and you can make the money to buy the wood and have it delivered to you by putting in far less time than gathering the wood yourself.  That free wood ISN'T FREE!!!  It costs you time and money to collect it.  The people giving away that free wood are shifting the cost of removal to YOU!

Go to the Day Labor place for almost instant jobs that pay cash daily, go to the temp agencies for quick jobs.  Work and save your money then buy that wood gasifier, or have it built by a professional, if you haven't changed your mind by then.  Don't be penny wise and dollar dumb, earning the money to obtain your goals is probably the easiest and quickest route to achieve them.

Life skills are what you need, and the most important one for you to learn first is how to make money.  That's the world we live in today, and odds are that's the world you'll spend the rest of your life in.  

50+ years ago there was a lot of talk about PEAK OIL, and how we would run out of gas and oil within 10 years.  So the race was on and people went out and built electric cars, and cars powered by all sorts of alternative fuels.  50+ years later, gas is still the cheapest and most reliable and obtainable fuel source available, and if you pay attention you can buy one of those alternative fuel vehicles very cheaply.

You're young, and you haven't learned the ways of the world yet.  People are selling you a lie packaged as a dream come true.  In the end it's all about money, and THEY are the ones making it...

Attaining the open road is far far easier than wood gasification.

Excellent advice, but it will likely be ignored.

 

[debit.servus]

...
Once again, where is the initial investment coming from, and how will you do the upgrades if you can not tell one welding rod from another.  ...

The initial investment is coming from any money I can scrounge. Welding is a mandatory skill for building a wood gasification system (unless one is established and have thousands of dollars to throw at paying somebody to weld for you), so I will need to learn it.

If I had money I would just BUY a ready-made woodgasification system or buy somebody elses project and modify it to my needs.

...
I too am a big fan of wood gassification. However, I think of it as an emergency solution for when gasoline is simply not available. I believe that day will come, and possibly in my lifetime, but not any time soon. It is a technology I want to have in my arsenal in case I need it ... someday.

When that day comes it will be too late to build a well built woodgasification system. Panic Now if that's your mindset, beat the rush. Everybody who plans to prepare for when gasoline is not available better start building their woodgas system TODAY. And NOT when gas stations are running out of gas.