Opinions and Regulations on Gray Water

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

JD GUMBEE

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
826
Reaction score
18
Location
sitting on a river-bridge playing the banjo...
(Moved by moderator rvwandering from "Street Smart Advice for Beginner City Vehicle Dwellers" thread. Nothing has been changed or deleted so a few out of context comments may be confusing)


Tickle, keep in mind, you are on a forum where dropping plastic-wrapped human waste into the garbage on a daily basis is an accepted thing...but allowing ones shower drain to drop water on the desert floor or down a storm drain is publicly shamed.
Trying to make sense of "legal morals" in this climate will likely leave you confused...and with a nasty headache.
I advise against it.

Kudos to those who can salvage some the insane amount of food we rape the planets resources to produce...only for it to be dumped in a landfill.

In fact, BRAVO to them! Legalities be damned. ;)
 
Bravo!

Sorry, but who's Tickle?

I'm dumping plenty of human waste in the household trash every day, as are millions of parents with babies and caregivers of the elderly; disposable diapers have been around quite a while now.

I trust myself to dump shower/dishes grey water responsibly, but that definitely does not include out in sensitive natural ecosystems.
 
^
as was said, "allowing ones shower drain to drop water on the desert floor or down a storm drain is publicly shamed."
Wait !
What ?
since when is that a shameful no-No ? 
 
okay I have forever (using my bath water) nourished... my beautiful garden : veggies, fruits, herbs, plus all the Ornamentals. And mind you,
they don't merely survive. Alleluia! plants thrive... so well, season after year... they get taller & have at State fair won 100+ awards  :)

One of these days i'll figger out how to import my photos into here, so I can proof the above ^ to you all
 
in many areas it is illegal to dump grey water on the ground. now if you want to play "I dare you to give me a ticket" with the rangers that's your business, I only wish you would stay home. this is not pointed at anyone in particular but everyone in this thread who would thumb their nose at not drawing attention to us. highdesertranger
 
And besides just because LEO, we're not talking about on your own property or a gardening situation.

Throwing any kind of fertilizer around a fragile wild ecosystem is pollution, interference.

Even if you only use ​Dr. Bronner's, food wastes are in dishwater.

Most people consider the effluent from showering and washing clothes to be blackwater - it certainly can stink worse than dunny water!

I'm not saying it's always harmful, but just like age of consent laws, you gotta draw the line somewhere!
 
I think people need to become a little more...umm, realistic about "fragile eco systems."
First of all, opening your gray tanks drain is very different than taking a sun shower.

Every time you press that windshield wash button using that lovely blue fluid, you do a LOT more to damage our planet than a sun shower.
Same with a rig overheating and blowing its coolant-cookies all over the road. Anti-freeze, unlike water with ecologically friendly soap, lives on in the gifts of toxic deposits for years to come.

When Mrs G and I were next to the Salton Sea, we had a shower tent with a solar shower. A tree hugging do-gooder walked over and began ranting about the "fragile eco-system" we were defiling. Salton Sea, folks. Salton Sea. I roared with laughter and began my own shower...as I reminded them to consider the location and praised them on the wonderful job they had done "Armor-all-ing" the tires on their off-gas-wonder of a brand new mid-life-crisis machine...evidenced by the huge wet spots for each of the tires, still on the ground from the previous day.

Lets use Quartzsite as an example.
If you use Ivory soap or decent camp castile soap, the tiny amount of impurities left behind on the ground are less than a few drops of sweat that is loaded with sun screen.
In a desert situation, the "run-off" does not last ten minutes. POOF! It is gone into the air.
The green-minded hikers who dig a 8 inch hole for their poop in the wild do a hell of a lot worse for mother earth than a showers water on the desert floor.
Same with pooping in a bag and tossing it in the garbage. An adult sized turd, mixed with three thousand other adult sized, plastic wrapped turds...makes an environmental disease-spreading nightmare.
Prattle on about how people dump baby diapers in the trash...just because they do not empty the waste like the diaper packages used to instruct...does not make it right.
Un-treated human feces in a landfill is toxic stuff when you wrap it in a plastic protective skin that does not allow it to dry out and go through the decay process.

What about washing a dog?
What about "out door showers" being installed on many RV's?

The "let no water hit the ground" attitude becomes much more laughable @ the BLM lots in Quartzsite.
The few times it rains there, the run-off from the millions of gallons of wax, spray tire cleaner/protectants, Rain-X, "sealant cure" run-off from the recent roof job, oil dribbles from the leaky skoolie diesels (Detroits...SHIVER) it all adds up and some of the preceding examples are far more harmful than a little DAWN and macaroni chunks.

The "WD-40" you spray on that squeaky door hinge has a ton of over spray. It does not evaporate.
I bet you could take a hundred sun-showers and still not equal the environmental impact of one good "spray job" from some of the RV people I have seen, who like to liberally wash their rigs down with the stuff.

We do have to draw the line somewhere. There are things we could be doing better. Showering on the ground isn't one of them.

When you put poop in the garbage, you are dumping waste that...in other settings, has to be labeled "BIO HAZARD" and disposed as such.
Rationalize it however you like...the fact remains, wrapping/tossing poop and finger-wagging at ground-release bathers is an example of grotesque hypocrisy.
 
Maybe so, but as I read the above, I apologize for being a dick.
"Prattle on" and a couple of other minor borderline sarcastic zingers were uncalled for.
If I could now edit them out, I would.
This is one of the situations in the RV world that REALLY makes my BP rise.
Even though the core of my message is correct, I could have delivered the same message without being ******* about it.
Please forgive me for this.
(I mean this 100% truthfully, without any sarcasm.)
 
I didn't pick up on anything that you have described in this last post and liked how you opened with the first two sentences in your first
 
JD GUMBEE said:
I think people need to become a little more...umm, realistic about "fragile eco systems."
First of all, opening your gray tanks drain is very different than taking a sun shower.

(snip of this Well-explained post, with many good points)

We do have to draw the line somewhere. There are things we could be doing better. Showering on the ground isn't one of them.

When you put poop in the garbage, you are dumping waste that...in other settings, has to be labeled "BIO HAZARD" and disposed as such.
Rationalize it however you like...the fact remains, wrapping/tossing poop and finger-wagging at ground-release bathers is an example of grotesque hypocrisy.
Nothing to apologize in that post. Well said.
 
John61CT said:
Throwing any kind of fertilizer around a fragile wild ecosystem is pollution, interference.

Even if you only use Dr. Bronner's, food wastes are in dishwater.

Most people consider the effluent from showering and washing clothes to be blackwater - it certainly can stink worse than dunny water!

I'm not saying it's always harmful, but just like age of consent laws, you gotta draw the line somewhere!
Wait !
What ?

First, there's a political agenda re "fragile wild ecosystem". --> The WILD ecosystems aren't nearly as 'fragile' as some assume.

Next, not every Interference is pollution. - It depends on what SORT of interference. Also how much, over what time, plus a gillion other factors...

God only knows the crap that people use on their Dishes, Bathing, & Laundry, etc. - when most of it is unnecessary.

No need for Dr. Bronner's or anything else; - because all that plants need = Water, Sun (along with climate), Humus, & our loving :heart:  Attention
 
I don't see any harm in minimizing our impact wherever possible, in whatever form that takes.

It's a mere truism that our impact will NEVER be "zero", ever, no matter what we do--simply because we exist, and our mere existence has an impact.

Ideological purity, of any sort, quickly leads to silliness.
 
while I agree with what is being said about all the crap that ends up on the ground. pointing out bad behavior to justify your own bad behavior is not a defense. I am telling you in some areas it's illegal to dump grey water in any form, doesn't matter what's in it or what kind of soap you used. the forest service has come into my camp and checked to make sure we were in compliance. so like I said if you want to thumb your nose at them and argue as they write you a ticket, that's your business. highdesertranger
 
Even if we do dump stuff that we shouldn't, it's a good idea to do it in the least harmful, most considerate way possible. No matter what we do we will have an impact on the environment.

Sometimes I pee outside instead of peeing in a black water tank so I can dump it out later. I'm not saying that's OK, but it is what I do on occasion. Many years ago I had a job where the bathroom was a long ways away. Since it was in a secluded area, I peed off to the side in the same place every day. By the time mid summer rolled around, I had to smell my piss for several weeks. Nasty. It was so gross. The next year doing the same job I spread the wealth and it was no problem. The environment can handle a bit of poison, but only so much. We do need to be aware we are having an impact and to minimize that impact.

It sounds like the desert is fairly fragile, so some areas are more of a concern than others.
 
yes it depends where you are. when I said "in many places it's illegal" that also means in many places it's legal. know the rules and follow them is what I am saying. highdesertranger
 
Actually, "WASH WATER" (what you make when taking an outdoor shower...) IS legal to drain on the ground (in Arizona anyway) and has specific mention in the rules.
It is not wrong unless specifically mentioned in regulations on a site by site basis. "WASHING WATER" or water generated by table-top camping cleaning of utensils...is NOT considered "GRAY WATER."

Dumping your gray tanks on the ground (which is likely what those rangers were looking for in the above example) is an entirely different story, depending on where you are.

The sad truth is, people employing the environmental card to sit in judgment of those who release sun-shower water on the ground, are not really concerned about the environment.
(If they were, they would not toss poop in the trash.)
They just do not want van dwellers to "look bad." That is the truth of it.
 
Top