Nigerian? PayPal Scammers When Selling Rigs (Warning)

[squid]

I was trying to sell this vintage fiberglass trailer I'd tricked out a few years ago, but then decided to buy a different RV.  Anyway it had new wiring, hardware, fridge, stove, propane, insulation, windows, undercarriage paint, toilet...lots of work so I set the price at the high end.
Well within 5 minutes of my CL ad I had a full price offer, text sounded sort-of American, they wanted it and would use PayPal to make sure that the money was "in my account" before the delivery truck driver took the RV trailer.  I was so elated!  My hard work had paid off!  But wait...
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5...pal/td-p/273176/page/4?profile.language=en-gb
There were scores of posts on the PayPal blogs of similar scamming operations.  The scammers do something called a CHARGE BACK.
The scammer "pays" on a hacked paypal account from a bogus credit card or stolen or false checking account.  The money shows up in YOUR bank account, you release the rig, you think all is golden, then like a bounced check, PayPal extracts that money from your account plus fees.  Sometimes the 'buyer' will accuse you of false representation etc.  Then you get to wait on hold for dozens of hours and speak to operators in some third world country about your dilemma, about which PayPal will do nothing.  You wind up with your money plus fees plus your rig, gone, or mostly they don't bother with the rig.  So somehow the scammer gets the cash that they never legitimately forwarded; this part I do not "get".  But since it's so prolific a scam operation this must be the case.  Or somehow they gain access through phishing to your PayPal account.  NEVER click on an unsolicited PayPal logo in an email!

I re-read the letter from "Mike Morgan":
"Mike Morgan":  -- Hello, Do you still have it available for sale?
Me:  "Yes can show in a few days when we return to the property where it's located."
"Mike Morgan":  Am interested in buying it, I will be responsible for shipping and handling, the payment will be made through PayPal. My shipping company will come to your location for the pick up. Kindly provide me with the address where it will be picked up so that i can forward it to the shipping company to calculate the cost of pick up for me. Do get back to me as soon as possible so that i can proceed with the payment via PayPal.
Me:  "OK I haven't sold anything this way before so as I do have a paypal account I'll ask them how to do this properly and get back during business day today."
"Mike Morgan":  I can understand the way you feel but i want to assure you that there won't be any problem. I'm not home presently, the item will not leave your sight not until the payment is clear and deposit into your PayPal account, that's why i want to hand over this transaction to PayPal and my Shipping Company so as soon as the payment has been made then my agent can come for the pick up the item so kindly get back to me with all necessary information for the payment.
[[[[[this is when I realize this dude is fos, Americans don't bother with "kindly", they don't capitalize "Shipping Company", he used "deposit" instead of "deposited", too polite, fails sniff test...]]]]]
Me:  "Cash on pick-up, in $20s, thanks."  {I chose $20s since the counterfeiters favor doing $100s}
Then, POOF! Like magic "Mike Morgan" vanishes.

 

[eDJ_]

I have a friend who buys and sells vehicles on eBay.  I've seen all kinds of this stuff. 

They want to offer a partial payment so that they can see the car before finalizing and then having a shipping company handle getting it to them. 

NEVER fall for that.  It only gives them some legal standing to tie up your sell and they can hold your vehicle
literally for ransome extorting payments to release their claim on the vehicle so you can try to sell it again.

Others want you to pull the vehicle from the auction and then sell to them off auction.  eBay watches for that
and I believe i violates an agreement.  You'd be better off putting it on Craig's List.

If you try to sell it yourself,  you'll get a lot of Clowns who show up offering you "Average Loan" saying that they can get that at the Bank but it's all they can get....would you please sell it to them.  And they often work in teams to wear you down all doing the same thing. 

One of the things Used Car Lots do is about every month they migrate the vehicles to other locations.  They have a network of Lots.  That way the chiselers and grinders who come around trying to wear down the price
(and who believe that by doing this they will get them down so they can buy it by the end of the month when the lot may be under pressure to make the required number of sales to meet their quota.....the car gets moved in the night and driven to another lot in another  location or city.   A friend of mine used this middle of the night "car relocation" faring from location to location.  

So if you have this issue,  you may need to move your vehicle to another place in the later evening.   Then put a different looking For Sale sign on it so the chiseler won't know if it's the same vehicle or not.

Camp Grounds are full of chiselers, bird dogs (who give you business cards of sales lots)  and other such "spotters". (who just write down the license plate number and find out the address where it is registered to)

Another scam I've seen with those who are chiseling is to remove the sticker on a License plate and then call the police to report it so it will be towed in and impounded.  Then they try pressure tactics to get you to sell it to them.  I strongly advise putting your rear license plate in a frame with a plate cover where they would have to tear it off your vehicle to remove the sticker.  This way in court you can state to the Judge that your vehicle was vandalized in order to get it towed in.   The Judge will usually understand what is going on.  It helps if you noticed who the chiselers have been and recorded their license plate number. (or have their phone numbers)   Thus you have some "usual suspects".  Then the Court can run their names and numbers to see how clean that they are.

 

[squid]

Thank-you. These are awesome tips.  I admit I was first skeptical, then elated, then triply-skeptical.  It's the "elated" part where they "getcha".  I've see what you're saying also, on another ad once I had a car for sale and one email just criticized my car, nitpicking...later another email, I suspect the same person, wanted to see the car for inspection...they try to wear you down.  I sold a house and the buyer's agent did this to me too...they first offered ABOVE asking price pending inspection, get you all "elated", then they take every micro-point of the inspection and hyperinflate it so that it looks like your house is worth negative one hundred thousand dollars!  Like they'd be doing you a favor to take it off your hands for zero$!  My seller's agent was worthless, I think she worked WITH the buyer's agent to wear me down.  I stood up to them all, but it takes a big toll to have nobody at your back and I probably lost $40K still.    The solo owner is really in a dangerous/vulnerable position.  This makes consigning, though that's not all too appealing either, maybe a better option.

 

[MrNoodly]

When I was selling off the stuff in my house in preparation for vandwelling, I got all sorts of replies like the ones above. I finally edited my listings to say, FACE-TO-FACE CASH TRANSACTIONS ONLY. The scammers stopped and I was able to sell my stuff anyway.

 

[user 37446]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I finally edited my listings to say, FACE-TO-FACE CASH TRANSACTIONS ONLY and add to that "in the local cop shop parking lot".[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]It's sad when you have to be more aware of the pitfalls then anything.  When buying you have to know the average price range - scammers will offer a nice vehicle for 1/2 value, waiting for a person who thinks they've found a "great deal"... then it's trick or treat time for the buyer...  You've also got the thieves who scope you and the merchandise out then come back later and steal it.  Also the ones who lead you off to a sketchy area then rob you.  [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]It's gotten so I don't even use CL anymore, just trade in clean vehicles at a dealer and take the loss, knowing I at least wont get burned. For older vehicles, trailers and rv's that you can't trade, use the consignment lots. At least that keeps the worst of the scum away.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]So glad you wised up before you got burned!  More views are needed for these topics, perhaps a mod will make it a sticky.[/font]