National forests

[lab_nomad]

I think I’m a little bit confused. There looks to be a lot of national forest land here in Idaho where I’m at working temporarily. I did one overnight camping close by just to see if I would like it (and I did), so I decided that when it gets cooler, I’d like to go camp in the forest. 

I guess I assumed it was all dispersed camping in the national forest, but it looks like there are a lot of paid campsites as well. 

I don’t want to use a paid campsite, b/c I want to be away from people. I guess I’m not sure how to find a place to park if the forest is dotted with a bunch of campsites. Do you just drive until you see something that looks nice and then pull off the road? How far off the road? Does it have to be an obvious clearing?

I’m a little worried that I might be in a spot that’s paid and not know it, or it’s reserved for someone and they show up and I’m there looking like a idiot. 

I’m sure this seems silly to experienced boondockers, but I have no idea how to find a dispersed camping spot.

 

[maki2]

When you are in a vehicle the dispersed camping sites are along roads authorized for motor vehicle use.That is different than hiking into an area and disperse camping in a tent. So the bottom line is you can camp for free in many places but when car/van/RV camping tney will only be along roads designated for use by general motor vehicles.

I find my spots using the free paper maps put out by the forest service. The dispersed camping is indicated by small dots along the edges of the roads. Many of the forest service roads do not have dispersed camping along them. But it is pretty easy to spot which ones do when driving down tnem as you will see areas of bare dirt off to the sides where lots of people have camped in the past and often campfire rings.

Paid camping areas are pretty obvious with signage as well as a place to fill out a registration slip and deposit the fee. They often have a camp host there who comes around to make sure you have paid. You are in very little danger of confusing paid sites for free dispersed camping.

 

[john*thomas]

https://freecampsites.net/

 

[lab_nomad]

Awesome, thanks, maki2! That seems easy enough. I have a few more questions, but it’ll have to wait until I get back from work.

 

[MrNoodly]

Yeah, the maps you want are called Motor Vehicle Use maps — MVU. Besides showing all the Forest Service roads, they're coded for the type of road. Here's a sample that also shows the dispersed (free) camping spots mentioned above:

<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/9gJ1Jgh/boondock1-A.jpg" alt="boondock1-A" border="0" /></a>

The maps are available either at Forest Service stations or online. The maps can save a lot of wandering around, or point you to areas you might not have considered otherwise. The Forest Service wants campers to stick to existing spots — usually indicated by a fire ring — and not go creating new ones.

 

[hugemoth]

The dots on the MVUMs don't show camp sites, they show where camping is allowed if there happens to be a place to camp.

 

[wayne49]

@maki Which NF is that MVUM for?

Not all MVUMs have those little dots.
Inyo's doesn't and Humboldt Toiyabe's doesn't.

I see a later reply, it may be that in Inyo NF and HTNF, it is assumed that there is dispersed camping anywhere, that it is not explicitly forbidden to do so, with the understanding that one does not "crush the brush" to create a site.

The MVUM will also indicate the vehicle types that may use a forest road. They are important to obtain and become familiar with the roads and any restrictions. Most NFs have their MVUMs available as downloadable PDFs from the NF's web site, if not the Avensa app can download the MVUM for a current location to a phone.

Recently I started a MC ride in the Bishop area on BLM land then crossed over into Inyo NF. I got to a spot on a hillside where I could get a 4G signal and downloaded the MVUM to figure out the best way to get home. I have a paper copy, but didn't bring it, as I wasn't anticipating ending up in the NF.

I use satellite images to find cleared areas along Forest roads or BLM roads, then verify the site's feasibility when I'm in the area.

Pay spots should have a marker with the spot's identification, most are reserved online, with an area entry sign advising that the area is paid camping only. They will appear on the MVUM with a tent symbol and the name of the campground. They would not want anyone to "unwittingly" occupy a reserved paid spot.

 

[maki2]

It is a bit difficult this year to find the free black and white paper maps at the ranger stations. I found one for the Kaibab National Forest in Arizona at the Williams district office. I got the one for the Coconino National Forest by asking the clerk at the gift shop in the Walnut Canyon National Monument if they had one. Sure enough they had a few stashed in the office space.

 

[lab_nomad]

I found maps online and an app to download them (Avenza). But my maps don’t have any black dots on them. But good to know I’m looking for a cleared out space off the road.

Would it be the same on BLM land or in the desert? Footage from Quartzite on Bob’s videos looks like people packed in like sardines all over the place. I don’t see any roads.

 

[travelaround]

I looked at the online maps for the forest I'm in - and see no black dots. I will go get a paper map from the forest service office to see if there are any black dots there.

 

[maki2]

People pack in together for the events, that is not the normal density in those areas. But there can be alot more density of people close to the highway and clustered around a camp host area. There are a lot of rallys in the wintertime in the BLM areas way more than just the RTR. All kinds of special interest groups meet in January and February such as people who own specific types of RVs. Some people like to travel in herds because they get lonely and bored without scheduled entertaining events.

 

[hugemoth]

BLM rules differ in different places so check locally but generally you can camp anywhere for up to 14 days then you have to move some distance away, usually 25 miles. Organized gatherings require a permit.

 

[lab_nomad]

I know about the 14 day limit. But by “camp anywhere,” that means literally anywhere? So it’s not the same as a forest where you pull off the road. You can go camp anywhere you vehicle can get to? 

Is that b/c BLM land is desert usually and there isn’t all the plants and trees you’d find in a forest?

 

[maki2]

No you cant just camp anywhere on land under BLM ressponsibility. Some lands are not open to camping, for instance they might be restricted to grazing and some areas are restricted for agricultural use.

Go to the websites for the various agencies and do a search for "camping" .The lands are divided up into districts and within the districts are further defined sections of lands. All the information about, where, wwhen, how and what not to do is posted there. YoYou will want to get a better background in what is available to you than can be answered in this forum. you can even make a phone call to district offices and talk directly to staff including rangers. Unfortunately in person visits to the information counters at ranger offices of the NFS and BLM is still not available to the public at this time. But you can talk to the volunteers at the paid campgrounds. There is often literature pamphlets available at those check-in sites.


Go do some weekend trips, get some in person experience before you head off full time.

 

[jacqueg]

I know about the 14 day limit. But by “camp anywhere,” that means literally anywhere? So it’s not the same as a forest where you pull off the road. You can go camp anywhere you vehicle can get to? 

Is that b/c BLM land is desert usually and there isn’t all the plants and trees you’d find in a forest?

No. BLM has plenty of forested land.

It's very difficult to give a one-size-fits-all rule of thumb. BLM and USFS are not only different agencies, they are in different federal departments. They also have somewhat different missions.

And each USFS forest and BLM district has its own local management priorities. And we're not even talking about the state agencies who manage land. There is really no substitute for knowing who manages the land where you propose to camp and looking it up.

Don'y worry, you'll get the hang of it! They all do their best to make sure that campers know the rules.

 

[lab_nomad]

Thanks for the all info. When I see YouTube videos where someone is out in the desert somewhere, I don’t really see any roads, and they never talk about all the research that goes into it. I just assumed if you knew you were legally on BLM land that you could just go wherever.

Anyway, I probably won’t be on BLM land anytime soon. But I’m def going to be checking out the National Forests here in Idaho. Every time I ask my coworkers what they did over the weekend, it’s always the same…camping. But it’s so hot right now, I don’t know how they can stand it. That one night I camped close by was so hot, I said, “Not again until it gets below 90.”

 

[Ravella and X]

Where in Idaho are you? I know some areas of southern Idaho fairly well and can share info through PMs.

And to complicate matters just a little more, you should know that "campground" and "fee" aren't strictly paired. There are free campgrounds here and there. You will get the hang of it all

Idaho is a beautiful state with so many odd and interesting places to see. Eventually, I intend to spend a couple of summers poking around Central and northern idaho.

 

[blars]

BLM varies on where they allow vehicles. They are supposed to have MVUM available for areas where vehicles are not allowed everywhere, but last I check they were not done. They do place signs in some areas where vehicles and camping are not allowed, but they can get vandalaized.

 

[lab_nomad]

Where in Idaho are you? I know some areas of southern Idaho fairly well and can share info through PMs.

And to complicate matters just a little more, you should know that "campground" and "fee" aren't strictly paired. There are free campgrounds here and there. You will get the hang of it all

Idaho is a beautiful state with so many odd and interesting places to see. Eventually, I intend to spend a couple of summers poking around Central and northern idaho.

Sorry! I just realized I hadn’t responded to your question. I’m in the Lewiston/Moscow area.

 

[[email protected]]

I think I’m a little bit confused. There looks to be a lot of national forest land here in Idaho where I’m at working temporarily. I did one overnight camping close by just to see if I would like it (and I did), so I decided that when it gets cooler, I’d like to go camp in the forest.

I guess I assumed it was all dispersed camping in the national forest, but it looks like there are a lot of paid campsites as well.

I don’t want to use a paid campsite, b/c I want to be away from people. I guess I’m not sure how to find a place to park if the forest is dotted with a bunch of campsites. Do you just drive until you see something that looks nice and then pull off the road? How far off the road? Does it have to be an obvious clearing?

I’m a little worried that I might be in a spot that’s paid and not know it, or it’s reserved for someone and they show up and I’m there looking like a idiot.

I’m sure this seems silly to experienced boondockers, but I have no idea how to find a dispersed camping spot.

Check out the app. Free roam.