Must travel trailers stop at truck weigh stations?

[speedhighway46]

As I have said earlier, it's not the vehicle that determines legal classification; it's the application of either being in commercial service for hire or being a personally owned vehicle carrying your own property and not for hire.

 

[Gypsy Clipper]

Having driven a semi tractor trailer over the road hauling mostly munitions,toxic waste and washing machine motors over the road for twenty years I had seen a huge number of people pull into a weigh station. I cannot understand why anyone would volunteer to expose themselves to that kind of intrusion in their lives. I also don't understand why anyone would volunteer to drive a private vehicle with the restrictions imposed by a CDL.
It is not proof of your skills. It is an invasion of your privacy and a way for the government to get into your pocket.
Penalties for speeding are higher and your liability is higher if you do get in an accident. Also if you have so many accidents or tickets points will be accessed to your license and your insurance goes up. As a CDL holder you are also in a nationwide database where your privacy again is at risk.
Seems to me the point of being a Nomad is less rules.


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[tx2sturgis]

As I have said earlier, it's not the vehicle that determines legal classification; it's the application of either being in commercial service for hire or being a personally owned vehicle carrying your own property and not for hire.

I feel like we are going round and round. It's your choice of wording.

It IS the vehicle (and its particular VIN) that determines legal classification. IF the vehicle is originally manufactured and certified as a commercial vehicle, it remains a commercial vehicle for its service lifetime UNLESS it is legally re-certified at some point by a rebuilder or the owner.

(I think what you might mean to say is: it's not the TYPE of vehicle that determines the legal classification, but rather how it is certified and used)

Example: If you go to the local truck auction and buy a 2000 model Peterbilt 579 Class 8 semi truck-tractor with a nice condo sleeper and it is classified as a commercial motor vehicle (and therefore has been used in commercial service,) if your license is only a standard operators license, (or equivalent) you can't legally drive it home even bobtail.

It DOES NOT MATTER if you are driving it home with only your personal possessions on board. It requires a CDL at all times and unless and until it is re-certified as a motorhome or RV. Hook it up to a flatbed, drive a personally-owned riding lawn mower aboard, chain it down, and drive it 500 miles, you need to have a CDL for that vehicle, EVEN THOUGH it is not technically 'for hire'...at that point it is actually in commercial service, since the definition of commercial service also includes some operations that are un-paid.

You might say again that you "know all this", but I'm trying to help make it clear to others reading this, what the laws are.

 

[bullfrog]

So many laws and regulations how does law enforcement deal with them or do you just put "not for hire" on one and wait to see if you get pulled over maybe? Aramark used one DOT number and bought hundreds of heavy duty trucks with 1/2 ton body markings for their whole fleet for years then avoided thousands of dollars of fines by plea bargaining medical cards and CDL drivers in all vehicles with a hitch, seems even the courts have a hard time enforcing the laws when big money and lawyers are in play.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yep. Stuff happens out there...no doubt about it. People and companies will sometimes skirt the law, and I personally have seen it, done it, and talked about it.

But the original posting is about legality of bypassing state weigh stations and one would assume, the credentials needed if you were stopped because of this.

If it were up to me, which we know it is NOT...but if it were, I would require licenses and endorsements based on what you are driving, not whether there is a paycheck involved at the end of the week...similar to pilots licenses.

Get certified for what you are operating, based on size, weight, performance, configuration, etc.

It makes perfect sense, so it will never happen.

 

[user 16179]

Having driven a semi tractor trailer over the road hauling mostly munitions,toxic waste and  washing machine motors over the road for twenty years I had seen a huge number of people pull into a weigh station. I cannot understand why anyone would volunteer to expose themselves to that kind of intrusion in their lives. I also don't understand why anyone would volunteer to drive a  private vehicle with the restrictions imposed by a CDL.
It is not proof of your skills. It is an invasion of your privacy and a way for the government to get into your pocket.
Penalties for speeding are higher and your liability is higher if you do get in an accident. Also if you have so many accidents or tickets points will be accessed to your license and your insurance goes up. As a CDL holder you are also in a nationwide database where your privacy again is at risk.
Seems to me the point of being a Nomad is less rules.


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Like you, I was a truck driver for years.  My company didn't have a very good reputation in the DOT computers, even to the on-board units in the cars (as demonstrated to me by an Iowa trooper).  Our vehicles were great....it was driver infractions.

So we were pulled "around back" quite often for inspections.  I always accused them of "profiling" me because I didn't see any passenger cars getting their brakes inspected.  Did me no good, but it amused the nice ones.

 

[Gypsy Clipper]

This entire conversation is a grey area. I'm sure that in the future with enough converted school buses out there the states Will see that they are missing out on opportunity to get more revenue but until then we all can just keep tossing out opinions and theories. I was just trying to help.

 

[speedhighway46]

Okay, here is the legal basis of what I am saying . . .

Based upon the Michigan Vehicle Code; Act 300 of 1949; (the current law)

Section 257.7a: A commercial motor vehicle is one having a GCWR of 26,001 pounds.
A COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE DOES NOT INCLUDE A VEHICLE USED EXCLUSIVELY TO TRANSPORT PERSONAL POSSESSIONS OR FAMILY MEMBERS FOR NONBUSINESS PURPOSES. (caps are mine)

Section 257.312e: Commercial Driver's License designations, qualifications, etc.
Paragraph (13): THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO A PERSON OPERATING A VEHICLE USED EXCLUSIVELY TO TRANSPORT PERSONAL POSSESSIONS OR FAMILY MEMBERS FOR NONBUSINESS PURPOSES. (caps are mine)

Therefore, and as I have said previously, in order for a vehicle to be legally considered a "commercial vehicle" it must be in commercial service.

The vehicle does not determine if it is a "commercial vehicle." The use and application determines if it is a "commercial vehicle."

So go out and buy a brand new Peterbilt and enjoy it as a private vehicle all you want as LONG AS YOU ARE NOT IN COMMERCIAL SERVICE. ITS A PRIVATE VEHICLE.

So there you go; don't make it more complicated than it is . . .

 

[bullfrog]

speedhighway46 thanks for the effort in answering now if insurance companies in different states follow this the world would be perfect almost, it seems confusing to me because many insurance companies go by vin number to determine whether commercial insurance is required at least that is what some members with box vans and school buses are saying.

 

[John61CT]

Just because you are "forced" to buy commercial insurance based on VIN, shouldn't mean you need a CDL.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Okay, here is the legal basis of what I am saying . . .

Based upon the Michigan Vehicle Code; Act 300 of 1949; (the current law)

Section 257.7a: A commercial motor vehicle is one having a GCWR of 26,001 pounds.
A COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE DOES NOT INCLUDE A VEHICLE USED EXCLUSIVELY TO TRANSPORT PERSONAL POSSESSIONS OR FAMILY MEMBERS FOR NONBUSINESS PURPOSES. (caps are mine)

Section 257.312e: Commercial Driver's License designations, qualifications, etc.
Paragraph (13): THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO A PERSON OPERATING A VEHICLE USED EXCLUSIVELY TO TRANSPORT PERSONAL POSSESSIONS OR FAMILY MEMBERS FOR NONBUSINESS PURPOSES. (caps are mine)

Therefore, and as I have said previously, in order for a vehicle to be legally considered a "commercial vehicle" it must be in commercial service.

The vehicle does not determine if it is a "commercial vehicle." The use and application determines if it is a "commercial vehicle."

So go out and buy a brand new Peterbilt and enjoy it as a private vehicle all you want as LONG AS YOU ARE NOT IN COMMERCIAL SERVICE. ITS A PRIVATE VEHICLE.

So there you go; don't make it more complicated than it is . . .

Michigan laws do not apply in interstate commerce. And you are assuming they do.

Weigh stations (the original topic) are mostly used when crossing from one state to another. So interstate, and federal laws, apply.

In US 49 CFR, part 390.5, the weight to begin classifying a vehicle as a CMV (commercial motor vehicle), is 10,001 pounds.

But, as I have said, IF you get the truck registered as an RV, Housecar, Private Truck, or Motorhome (whatever your state calls it) in your home state, then it becomes a non-commercial vehicle. Here is a website to help with that:

http://hhrvresource.com/node/45

If you bought a NEW truck tractor then the process is probably a lot simpler. But it if was previously commercially registered, and in my example you bought it at an auction, then it remains a commercial vehicle UNTIL you get it registered as a private, non-commercial RV, Motorhome, whatever.

If it was originally registered as a commercial vehicle in commercial service, it remains a commercial vehicle until that is changed, and all state and federal laws will apply.

It really IS that simple.

 

[akrvbob]

There are two very different questions being addressed here:

1) Is a vehicle required to stop at commercial inspection stations even though it has been converted away from being commercial?
2) Will he/she get a ticket if she/he doesn't?

Those are two very different questions and may have opposite answers. Here is a specific example where the answer to number one is YES and at the exact same time the answer to number 2 is NO.

When you enter Florida the inspection stations all have BIG signs listing who must stop. One of the items listed is "ALL CARGO VANS" I've never stopped at an inspection station ever, but when I saw that I went ahead and stopped.

The guy is in a real tall window so he looks across at the trucks, and he was looking down at the top of my van, so of course he was looking at my solar panels. He was curious and asked about them. I explained they were solar panels and had turned the van into a camper. He said something and then said I could go.

I wanted to be clear so I asked him if I had to stop every time I came into the state and he said very emphatically YES, I MUST STOP EVERY TIME I COME INTO THE STATE!! He then said if I did not, a cop would chase me down and pull me over.

So very clearly, the fact I was not engaged in a commercial operation was meaningless in the state of Florida. I MUST stop at the inspection stations at the entrance to the state if the vehicle had ever been commercial.

Since I wasn't breaking a law, I wouldn't get a ticket for the vehicle, but I'm sure if he was a **** he could give me a ticket for failing to stop, after all, it was clearly posted as required by law.

 

[bullfrog]

Do insurance companies require a CDL driver if they issue a commercial policy? This is way beyond my pay grade. I used to run a school transportation system and most federal laws don't apply to school bus systems, we were more worried about insurance. I got fired once because I told our senator he cared more about rocks than kids because I couldn't haul rocks more than a few hours a day by law but could haul kids 24/7. I never once was required to stop at a weigh station even though I was required to have a CDL and drove a vehicle over the weight requirement. There are just so many rules and regulations I can't imagine anyone knows them all for all the states and fed, even the enforcement officers.

 

[speedhighway46]

The Michigan Vehicle Code is recognized in all states for vehicles titled and registered in Michigan; as is true with all other 49 states.

I'm done with this thread.

 

[tx2sturgis]

The Michigan Vehicle Code is recognized in all states for vehicles titled and registered in Michigan; as is true with all other 49 states.

I'm done with this thread.

True. And if its a RV, Private Truck,or Motorhome as titled in that state, then the other states must recognize it. But if it is a commercial vehicle, crossing state lines, then the Federal rules apply. What is getting us mired in minutiae is the fact that, the states will also define it as a commercial vehicle even IF it is registered as a private vehicle, of a certain weight, IF you begin using it for commercial purposes.

But, the original topic has nothing to do with Michigan, we are talking about weigh stations and they exist in most if not all of the 48 contiguous states.

Your advise to all the readers of this thread is to go buy one, drive it all over the place, and don't worry about it based on Michigan's definitions.

I take the opposite approach and advise the readers to get it legally registered (in their state) as an RV, or Motorhome, first. As a benefit, usually, the yearly fees and the insurance will be a LOT cheaper.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Michigan laws do not apply in interstate commerce. 

In my post number 31 above, I stated that Michigan laws do not apply in interstate commerce. Key word being 'commerce'.

Interstate commerce is by definition, commercial in nature. It is not the same as a private citizen traveling the highways in a private vehicle.

But then the reply was that:

"The Michigan Vehicle Code is recognized in all states for vehicles titled and registered in Michigan; as is true with all other 49 states"

That's a separate issue and distinct from commercial requirements mandated for interstate commerce being conducted in commercial vehicles.

 

[CautionToTheWind]

I wanted to be clear so I asked him if I had to stop every time I came into the state and he said very emphatically YES, I MUST STOP EVERY TIME I COME INTO THE STATE!! He then said if I did not, a cop would chase me down and pull me over.

Chicken coops (trucker talk for scale houses) can be run by "flexing their muscles" mentality if, in fact, it's not the truth.

A lot depends on the state, load and use, for hire, to name a few. Definitely a big gray area and getting larger by the year; gov't regulations.

Some states require cargo vans, u-hauls/budget/etc.

Must read scale house signs and have your dash cam ready and recording.

I had the benefit of pre-pass the last several years of driving.

 

[user 15722]

I'll need to go with Speed here.
I drove truck and trailer and doubles for about 10 years, back when.
It's a rotten job.
Pulling into the scales is a setup for abuse.
They frequently cost me money following an inspection.

When I worked in the oilpatch we drove a 1 ton chevy with tool bed.
Because it was a commercial vehicle we had to drive through the scales.
They never called me in for inspection, there, in that little truck.
Probably a good thing ! wheels

 

[Motrukdriver]

I don't know if other states do this but from what I've read, Illinois says if you have advertising stickers on your vehicle then you are considered commercial and have to stop at weigh stations. I remember when this came out some year ago and a lot of us truck drivers raced cars on the weekends when they were home. They either avoided Illinois or scraped all the "racing" stickers off their rigs. I don't think this an issue with most of the mobile living community since most want to be in stealth mode or as stealthy as possible. Just something to think about before you put that big "Super Wonderful Solar Panel" sticker on the side of your van.

 

[abnorm]

That FIRST inspection station in Florida is AGRICULTURAL...........not a weigh station and YES a van needs to stop

doug