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mjmckelvey23

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My name is Matt and I'm new to this forum and homes on wheels thing. I want to get a mid size school bus, gut it , then convert it. I am having a baby and have a puppy that will be 50+ lbs full grown.
So the question is:

Is this the most inexpensive/ efficient option and, if not, what is?

All opinions are appreciated and I would appreciate an explanation on your opinion, as well, so that I can weigh my pros and cons. Thank you!

Matt, Kate, Bando and Evelynn


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Welcome to the CRVL forums, Matt! I think you've chosen a great lifestyle for your family

I don't think it's possible to answer this question. There are far too many variables. To name a few: location, age of vehicles, types of engines, transmission. That's just for starters. I made a list of my requirements and found the vehicle that fit my needs.

To help you learn the ins and outs of these forums, this "Tips & Tricks" post lists some helpful information to get you started. We look forward to hearing more from you.
 
You get by far your most space for the least money with a school bus of any size, but they tend to cost a lot to keep running and I don't know why. EVerything in them is made better but they seem to need lots of work to keep running. If you are going to be driving a lot, I'd think more about a box van. They just have standard van drivetrains which should be cheap and easy to keep running but offer the size you need. But that's just a personal opinion, no real facts to back it up.
Bob
 
Thanks! That was pretty much the direction I was going with that question! I've made a rough draft plan for the living area and I know I need, at the very least, 17 feet (not including the driving area). Do you know if a box van has that type of room?


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Don't know about box trucks, but Step Vans come in lengths from 10 ft up to 18 or 20.  I'm talking about the cargo space behind the seat.
 
Also, what kind of clearance would it have? We are travelers so it would be our home so it would be a necessity to have room to stand and move around...


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In my opinion, (OPINION) the worst part of having a schooly is the gas mileage.  If a wheel bearing goes out, you are talking truck labor prices.  More than one member has found that some parts are no longer available.  

But they look so darn cool!  :D

With most vans and trucks 99% of the parts are just as near as the internet 

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/

What ever you decide on, you will find a lot of help here.  Welcome to your little tribe from the big tribe.
 
mjmckelvey23 said:
Thanks! That was pretty much the direction I was going with that question! I've made a rough draft plan for the living area and I know I need, at the very least, 17 feet (not including the driving area). Do you know if a box van has that type of room?


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You can get box trucks it all different sizes....but to answer your specific question, yes you can get one with a 17' box, 17' behind the driving area that is.  Plenty of room to stand up too.
 
A refrigerated box truck that has a non functioning refrigeration unit on the box can be a very good value as they have well insulated tough boxes on them.  Many have industrial grade fiber reinforced plastic (FRP) as the outside and inside walls with industrial grade insulation glued between them.  Also, a lot of them have swinging rear doors that seal up well.  No need to remove a rear roll up door and build in and insulate and finish out a rear wall/door like a standard box truck.
 
mjmckelvey23 said:
My name is Matt and I'm new to this forum and homes on wheels thing. I want to get a mid size school bus, gut it , then convert it. I am having a baby 

Best option is let the gf / wife have the baby. Just get a second job to pay for it. 

On a more serious note, I wanted to get a commercial vehicle and convert it. The problem that I found was insurance. Insurance is regulated by the State that you are in. Some places may be easier to get it covered, but here in Nevada it is most difficult to obtain unless you lie. Then they can get you for fraud if you file a claim. Few insurance companies want anything to do with commercial diy motorhome.

Copy a VIN number off of a vehicle that is the same as you would like to convert. Call insurance companies for a quote, and give them the VIN number. Tell them your plans. Use a fictitious name if you like. When they run the VIN they will tell you if they cover them. In your State it might be easy. It is all in the VIN. In your State getting the DMV, (or whatever they call it there), to change it from commercial to RV may also be a problem. You should see what it takes where you are.

The odd part is here you can buy a used Class C, completely strip it down to the frame, build what you wish, and you can register and insure without problems. I would just go liability, because they will only pay you for what it used to be.
 
When I went to register my ford hi top extended I had built a sleeping platform and had a refrigerator the guy wanted to see the inside and when he opened the door all he saw was what he called a tool bench and a cooler no clue took me 10 minutes to explain the plan he just finally gave up and issued me the paperwork. So I had what was a commercial van to a private vehicle title easy to insure
 
wagoneer said:
I also had a step van that was roomy look into fed ex trucks


Saw one last week and it got me starting to think... But how easy are they to get?


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Hey Matt and Kate, it was great to meet you two and little Bando. A while back I saw some van based box trucks for sale in Denver with 16' boxes. They were low milage and not very many years old so they were a little more expensive, but they would need very little maintenance initially, and use standard van parts when the need arises later. They may still be on Craig's List as they had several - it looked like they were reselling used Penske trucks from the yellow color.

My own trailer would be to small once the little one is born, but you're more than welcome to come back by when it's not raining sometime and check it out for ideas. Nothing original as i just stole the ideas I liked best from others. Best wishes on your journey.
 
ALL I REALLY KNOW IS they age out so expect some milage. but they do use robust motors and the suspension is the only challenge, not quite sure what diesel they run, drivers I have asked just shrug and dunno, like they care. Duitch or Cummins I BELIEVE THEY ARE WATER COOLED. ANYONE CHIME IN HERE?
 
masterplumber said:
Hey Matt and Kate, it was great to meet you two and little Bando. A while back I saw some van based box trucks for sale in Denver with 16' boxes. They were low milage and not very many years old so they were a little more expensive, but they would need very little maintenance initially, and use standard van parts when the need arises later. They may still be on Craig's List as they had several - it looked like they were reselling used Penske trucks from the yellow color.

My own trailer would be to small once the little one is born, but you're more than welcome to come back by when it's not raining sometime and check it out for ideas. Nothing original as i just stole the ideas I liked best from others. Best wishes on your journey.


Thanks a lot! I'll message you in the next couple days to set up a time to come and check it out! Definitely would be excited to have some inspiration!


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mjmckelvey23 said:
Thanks a lot! I'll message you in the next couple days to set up a time to come and check it out! Definitely would be excited to have some inspiration!


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Doug is a great source for inspiration.   :D
 
Why aren't you considering a good used Class C? They have a standard Ford, Dodge or Chevy drivetrain and everything will be in place and ready to move in.

If you watch craigslist you can get one for not a lot more than an empty school bus and by the time you build in all the systems in a school bus it'll probably cost much more. Bob
 
A lot of people have chimed in to steer you away from your original goal - a converted school bus. Note that none of them own a school bus, and that none of them can give you a very good reason for their bias. They even admit it.

I own both. I currently have a 36' flat nose Blue Bird school bus powered by a Cummins diesel and a 14' GMC box truck, also powered by a Cummins diesel. To date, I've actually owned four box trucks and three school buses.

Having actual experience with both types of vehicles, I'll take a stab at a more fact-based comparison:

School buses were the direction you were originally leaning, and they have quite a few pluses. First, purchase cost will likely be significantly lower for a school bus than for a decent box truck, and you will end up with much more space. School buses are far safer, both because of their stouter construction and because any collision will likely occur below the floor line of the bus. This margin of safety is by design.

Parts are not the problem others have claimed. School buses are built on medium duty truck chassis. Medium duty trucks are everywhere, so new and used mechanical parts are equally common. Every half decent sized town I've ever been in had a NAPA and at least one junkyard devoted to medium and heavy trucks, and that's all you'll need. Parts are generally more expensive, but then medium duty trucks are very durable - they're designed to be heavily loaded and then driven by indifferent if not abusive employees.

Since you'll have more space to finish, you will likely spend a fair amount more converting a skoolie. You don't have to, but you're doing this for your family to be comfortable in, so I suspect you will. There is also the matter of removing and skinning over many of the school bus windows, which you will likely want to do both for privacy and improved temperature control. That adds to the cost as well.

Having said all that, with a growing family and a dog, I suspect the result you'd get with a bus would be well worth the extra money and work.

You'll spend a lot more on tires for a bus, because they're larger. You can buy a good quality 16" LT truck tire for a box van for $200, but a good 11r22.5 for a bus will easily set you back $500. (On any vehicle, tires should be replaced when they're 6 years old, even if they have plenty of tread left on them.)

A box truck has some very different advantages. Box trucks tend to have pretty high ceilings compared to buses. (Of course, many people raise their bus roof a foot or two, and the result is fabulous.) Also, those nice vertical box truck walls are really easy to finish. Quick, too. You could certainly have a livable space finished in less time with a box truck than if you were converting a bus.

A box truck should also get somewhat better fuel economy, unless you're towing something, and a box truck will probably cost less to operate and maintain.

I say probably, because I know I'll spend more on tires and fuel for my skoolie than I would for my box truck. Then again, I can get a used or rebuilt Cummins pretty cheaply if I ever need it, and my skoolie's Allison Mt-643 transmission costs significantly less to rebuild than the modern electronic overdrive transmissions in any of the newer box trucks. Also, I spent so much less to buy my skoolie that I can pay for a set of new tires and at least one major repair on the bus with my initial savings. 

If you plan on solar power, a box truck's roof is big enough to accommodate 750-1000 watts of PV. A skoolie roof will take twice that, with room left over for a deck. A box truck will struggle with the weight of the batteries for such a system, whereas a skoolie won't notice the weight. (This is one of the areas where a skoolie just can't be beat - when I started my conversion, I had 7.5 tons of usable capacity to work with. That's what a bigger box truck weighs, fully loaded!)

The downside of this size is reduced maneuverability. A box truck is easier to get around in, plus you have a lot more parking options. Of course, plenty of folks drive around in motorhomes that are as much as 9 feet longer than my bus, and I don't see any of them stranded on the street, unable to park.

If you were leaning toward a bus, I'd probably recommend a shorter one than mine - around 30' length, with a flat nose - those have a shorter wheelbase and thus are really easy to drive and maneuver.

For myself, I decided to go with the bus over the box truck. I like the space, and I want a large solar system. (I'm building an off-grid bus with an all-electric kitchen,  including a serious espresso machine.) I also like having significant water and fuel capacity, which takes a lot of space and is not at all light. 

On top of that, I wanted a good size fridge, a way to wash clothes and plenty of room for storage. A box truck would have ended up really cramped, and just couldn't handle the weight. Even if it could take the weight, there simply isn't room underneath a box truck to hang the battery box and tanks I want. 
 
This has only scratched the surface, but I hope this helps you consider some options in a better light. Only you know what the end result needs to be for your family to be comfortable and happy. I would be able to share more specific recommendations if we had talked a bit. PM me if you're interested...
 
cognitive dissonance said:
A lot of people have chimed in to steer you away from your original goal - a converted school bus. Note that none of them own a school bus, and that none of them can give you a very good reason for their bias. They even admit it.

I own both. I currently have a 36' flat nose Blue Bird school bus powered by a Cummins diesel and a 14' GMC box truck, also powered by a Cummins diesel. To date, I've actually owned four box trucks and three school buses.

Having actual experience with both types of vehicles, I'll take a stab at a more fact-based comparison:

School buses were the direction you were originally leaning, and they have quite a few pluses. First, purchase cost will likely be significantly lower for a school bus than for a decent box truck, and you will end up with much more space. School buses are far safer, both because of their stouter construction and because any collision will likely occur below the floor line of the bus. This margin of safety is by design.

Parts are not the problem others have claimed. School buses are built on medium duty truck chassis. Medium duty trucks are everywhere, so new and used mechanical parts are equally common. Every half decent sized town I've ever been in had a NAPA and at least one junkyard devoted to medium and heavy trucks, and that's all you'll need. Parts are generally more expensive, but then medium duty trucks are very durable - they're designed to be heavily loaded and then driven by indifferent if not abusive employees.

Since you'll have more space to finish, you will likely spend a fair amount more converting a skoolie. You don't have to, but you're doing this for your family to be comfortable in, so I suspect you will. There is also the matter of removing and skinning over many of the school bus windows, which you will likely want to do both for privacy and improved temperature control. That adds to the cost as well.

Having said all that, with a growing family and a dog, I suspect the result you'd get with a bus would be well worth the extra money and work.

You'll spend a lot more on tires for a bus, because they're larger. You can buy a good quality 16" LT truck tire for a box van for $200, but a good 11r22.5 for a bus will easily set you back $500. (On any vehicle, tires should be replaced when they're 6 years old, even if they have plenty of tread left on them.)

A box truck has some very different advantages. Box trucks tend to have pretty high ceilings compared to buses. (Of course, many people raise their bus roof a foot or two, and the result is fabulous.) Also, those nice vertical box truck walls are really easy to finish. Quick, too. You could certainly have a livable space finished in less time with a box truck than if you were converting a bus.

A box truck should also get somewhat better fuel economy, unless you're towing something, and a box truck will probably cost less to operate and maintain.

I say probably, because I know I'll spend more on tires and fuel for my skoolie than I would for my box truck. Then again, I can get a used or rebuilt Cummins pretty cheaply if I ever need it, and my skoolie's Allison Mt-643 transmission costs significantly less to rebuild than the modern electronic overdrive transmissions in any of the newer box trucks. Also, I spent so much less to buy my skoolie that I can pay for a set of new tires and at least one major repair on the bus with my initial savings. 

If you plan on solar power, a box truck's roof is big enough to accommodate 750-1000 watts of PV. A skoolie roof will take twice that, with room left over for a deck. A box truck will struggle with the weight of the batteries for such a system, whereas a skoolie won't notice the weight. (This is one of the areas where a skoolie just can't be beat - when I started my conversion, I had 7.5 tons of usable capacity to work with. That's what a bigger box truck weighs, fully loaded!)

The downside of this size is reduced maneuverability. A box truck is easier to get around in, plus you have a lot more parking options. Of course, plenty of folks drive around in motorhomes that are as much as 9 feet longer than my bus, and I don't see any of them stranded on the street, unable to park.

If you were leaning toward a bus, I'd probably recommend a shorter one than mine - around 30' length, with a flat nose - those have a shorter wheelbase and thus are really easy to drive and maneuver.

For myself, I decided to go with the bus over the box truck. I like the space, and I want a large solar system. (I'm building an off-grid bus with an all-electric kitchen,  including a serious espresso machine.) I also like having significant water and fuel capacity, which takes a lot of space and is not at all light. 

On top of that, I wanted a good size fridge, a way to wash clothes and plenty of room for storage. A box truck would have ended up really cramped, and just couldn't handle the weight. Even if it could take the weight, there simply isn't room underneath a box truck to hang the battery box and tanks I want. 
 
This has only scratched the surface, but I hope this helps you consider some options in a better light. Only you know what the end result needs to be for your family to be comfortable and happy. I would be able to share more specific recommendations if we had talked a bit. PM me if you're interested...


I thank you for this very thorough, unbiased explanation. This is definitely something I was looking for. The only question I have is about the flat-nosed buses... I had a friend who was hesitant to get a flat-nose because of it being harder to work on the mechanic bc you have to go under the bus. Will it be more difficult to work on a flat nose than a bus with a hood in the front?


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