LTVA - Black Tank Question

[squatting dog]

If one needs to make an inexpensive macerator, just find an old garbage disposal unit.  :shy:

 

[Headache]

Having stayed at the same camp at La Posa south it most definitely depends on what ranger you get.  I was told it couldn't be a porta potty, composting toilet, etc.  It had to be at least 10 gallons and permanently installed.  NOTHING could be dumped in the pit toilets.

And no, they don't inspect vehicles.  However, you can bet that if they ever caught you dumping your waste somewhere or dropping a dooky in the wash you could get a personal escort out if a ranger was so inclined.

If I remember correctly that pic above of the macerator was from Jake Von Slatt's Steampunk Workshop for the schoolie he converted for the family to camp in.

 

[squatting dog]

Headache... you had it correct about Jake and the home made macerator. As soon as I found it, I made one and it worked great. 

 

[gizmotron]

it's easy to see if a vehicle has a black tank by the valve set up.

Not so easy. I designed mine inside the floor of the van so that the valve is hidden behind the back doors. I didn't want the tank freezing for one thing. So it's situated inside the living space, out of sight.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Sometimes these waste valves drip, or leak, or freeze and crack...not to mention a bit of remaining stinky sludge remaining after a 'dump'....

Some of this might end up inside the 'drom box' area in this yellow van...I would sure keep some cleaning supplies handy.

 

[gizmotron]

Some of this might end up inside the 'drom box' area in this yellow van...I would sure keep some cleaning supplies handy.

I thought of that with more than 20 years of full time membership park camping experience. I may have done a thousand dumps by now. I'm gluing a piece of Vinyl Coated Polyester in and around where the tank shutoff goes. The locking cap does a very good job of keeping stuff where it belongs, until you take it off that is. I deploy the shower curtain for crap under and around where the valve is located and it's then ready to catch all the goodies. I have a faucet right there to wash it all down when finished. I can dry it off with paper towels and store it back around the valve. That's a thirty-one gallon tank. The water tank next to it is thirty gallons. I know what I wanted and what I like about camping. The convenience of a fully capable RV can happen in a van build. If I can stand the height of the ceiling in the existing bathroom then I can add two more solar panels and another 200ah lithium battery. Bob just put up a video of a full electric Sprinter van conversion. It's an inspiring video. If I can't stand the space in the existing bathroom height wise then I will pop that section of the roof up. If not, I will add two more 100 watt Renegy tilting panels to my already 400 watts going up there. Knowing what you want and planning for it in van life is very important to design. I'm glad that I have all this experience.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I'm glad you do...but others, who may be new to the forum or van-living, might see the pics and possibly having never owned an RV or been involved in the process of emptying the holding tanks...they might duplicate that design and get a 'surprise' the first time they operate the valve.

Side note: the closed-off compartment you have is a good idea to isolate the 'bidness end' from the rest of the van. That's the part I referred to as the 'drom box'...which is an old trucking term that means an enclosed tool storage or extra cargo area behind the cab of a truck.

Anyway, carry on!

 

[gizmotron]

Side note: the closed-off compartment you have is a good idea to isolate the 'bidness end' from the rest of the van. That's the part I referred to as the 'drom box'...which is an old trucking term that means an enclosed tool storage or extra cargo area behind the cab of a truck.

Ha, LOL, I had to look up "drom box." In my full van build pictures/description thread in the Conversions section here, that back section is my mechanical area for the plumbing, solar, water heater, outdoor kitchen, and ventilation system. It's air tight from the living space. It does have ventilation for obvious reasons. I store my Ninja Foodi Pressure cooker, air fryer, broiler, coffee pot, induction cooktop, spice rack, and anything else that might fit back there. I can cook inside or outside back there or at the side cargo door where my outdoor kitchen / shower, can be set up at the rear or the side.

You should understand that as a nomad I will go my own direction. Every person that buys a new RV and heads out to camp for the first time has no idea the things that they will eventually learn. I'm showing anyone that wants to know it that van builds without full bathrooms is not a must have condition in order to belong to the ever popular group think. I know what I want and that is not to separate my piss and walk around with a bag of shit. I want to be able to use the dang thing in the middle of the night when I have about 20 seconds before a great unhappiness occurs. I like to eat and I like to crap in peace. I could care less if someone wants to go to such an elaborate process to have a bathroom or not. If I had to labor this out it would cost a lot of money. When I started the thread on this build several people here asked for pictures because they wanted to see how I was going to do it. So I'm sharing it with hopes that people will not risk or harm themselves in being impressionable enough to make a very bad choice for themselves. Let's just say for safety sake that if you want this then please go get certified in dumping black water tanks from any of the willing folks out there willing to instruct them. Don't forget to wear your badge.

My advice is to think like a NASA space engineer. How do you get everything in a small space? Well I don't have a kitchen sink so I won't have to figure out how to bring that. I'm just jazzed by Bob's latest video today on YouTube. I love that idea of going full electric. Now that really is a space craft. No wonder too. The lady has a PHD.

 

[SteveSF]

Just a quick note about pumps..They can suck very short distance but can pump a lot further. How far is measured in head, so a pump rated 20 feet can pump strait up 20 feet any down or strait distance does add some resistance, so does pipe diameter but not nearly as much. You will find the suction cause by the down slope will actually drag the contents down. The most important numbers are the lift before the pump and the head / height you need to pump it too aka the highest point. So if your pump is rated for 100 ft and your rise is about 5 feet it will be blasting out the other end. I would be more concerned about the pressure that may build cased by the run aka length after the pump. I might suggest if you have a clean out outside your home add a dump port there and keep the mess out side.

 

[user 423]

Sometimes these waste valves drip, or leak, or freeze and crack...not to mention a bit of remaining stinky sludge remaining after a 'dump'....
Some of this might end up inside the 'drom box' area in this yellow van...I would sure keep some cleaning supplies handy.

Along those lines: If you kept a black tank no more than 3/4 full and it froze, would there be damage/leakage? Or would you just not be able to dump? I'm thinking about relocating the spare on my E150 and adding a black tank in the space underneath. Mostly I wouldn't be in cold weather much but probably would need to plan for the worst. So I would think about adding insulation and/or some kind of 12-volt heater to keep things unfrozen.

 

[gizmotron]

I had a Holiday Rambler. It was very well built. It was made to last for one thing. It had a skirt under where the black tank and gray tank goes. It had insulation around it. It never froze. I even did 6 years in the PNW and it never froze. There was snow all over the place. It never froze. The same for the water lines and the dump valve fittings. They do make 12 volt tank heater blankets. If you are doing the work then you can do the job right. It's not like today when they throw this RV junk together and sell them like hot cakes. They are not made for the harsh winters unless you get a so called Arctic Package. And even then I wonder if they ever bother to protect the dump tanks. You have to look and confirm how it's done or if it was ever done.

 

[maki2]

I have a bright blue, tall 6 gallon water container. It is clearly labeled "waste water only" That is what it is used for. I empty grey and black water into it for transport to the dump stations at the LTVA. It lies on its side, flat on the ground next to my little travel trailer. This year keeping it very visible from a distance has meant no more knock on the door visits from rangers or volunteers at the LTVA wanting to ask if I have holding tanks.

 

[JDub]

I wonder if anyone has hit on the idea of getting a junk teardrop trailer or something of similar size (the kind that's big enough to have a built in toilet) for really cheap ( it can be totally torn up and unusable inside) - perhaps a few hundred bucks - and towing it with them for a winter season to an LTVA.

They could use it as storage or something and continue living in their van. All the rangers will see is a regular travel trailer with the proper plumbing on the outside for a holding tank and they'll leave you alone since they don't go in the trailers. You could drop it off at a scrap yard or give it away at the end of the season.

Hmmmm...

 

[bullfrog]

It has to get pretty cold to freeze several gallons of waste water solid. I have had a black tank freeze and crack in the very bottom “ramp” area that leads directly to the outlet valve. During an attempt to thaw it to empty it with a heat lamp managed to melt a hole in it. Not a good day. Really makes a separating toilet look good and keeping the black tank empty with a little RV antifreeze if you have an emergency to flush with in cold weather.

 

[gizmotron]

Just keep it inside and snuggle up to it. I have mine in an area where I keep my lithium batteries warm and happy. If I keep the inside warm there is no way for the tanks to freeze. I turned the inside of the van into an ice chest. It's insulated all the way around inside. It takes way less heat to keep it warm. It also allows for much less air to be circulated in and out for condensation and oxygen. I'm thinking about an insulation wall between the living area and the driver area. That will work for cold or hot too.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Along those lines: If you kept a black tank no more than 3/4 full and it froze, would there be damage/leakage? Or would you just not be able to dump?

If nighttime AND daytime temps remain below 30f degrees or so for several days, then your black tank contents can freeze, but the tank itself will usually not suffer any cracks because most holding tanks can flex enough that they usually don't break. Of course, severely cold temperatures and cold winds can freeze that thing pretty solid....and it will take many days to thaw once the daytime temps begin to warm up.

But the waste valve housing CAN and WILL crack if it is unprotected in sub-freezing temps for a few days or a week of sub-freezing temps. Most high-end Class A motorhomes have an enclosed dump-valve compartment, some are heated, directly or indirectly, and since many of these have heated or enclosed holding tanks, this will contribute to the unit being classified as a 'four season' camper.

If you are spending a winter season at a campground or RV park with electrical hookups all winter, then you can wrap electrical 'heat tape' and then wrap insulation around the exposed dump valve housing. That's how I kept mine protected for several winter seasons when I had a small Class A with exposed waste plumbing.

If you are off-grid and expect to spend many days camped/parked in sub-freezing temps, you will need to plan ahead. I recommend a 'blue-boy' waste tote be left connected via a very short 'stinky slinky' and also leave the dump valves open.....if something is going to freeze solid and then crack open...let it be the waste tote, not your dump valves!

You will, of course, need to tend to the chore of emptying the waste tote before it is 100% full.

 

[user 423]

^Nice. It's good that the rangers aren't able to visually tell the difference between a 6 gallon tank and a 10 gallon model.