King pins on my Econoline

[decodancer]

Once again I'm not sure if this is the right spot for this, don't see a place for mechanical questions. My van steers fine, a bit loose maybe but I've never had any problems. I went back to the mechanic who fixed my leaky radiator hose and asked if he remembered what he had told me needed fixing. I remembered axel so they jacked up the front wheel, wiggled it a bit and said I needed king pins. Quoted me $150 for parts, and $450 for labor. I then called the place who did my tires because I really felt he was trustworthy and very helpful the three times I went there. He could not do the repair but gave me a referral. Called them and got an older gentleman. Said they had the specialized equipment to do king pins and quoted me $100 for parts and $200 to at most $300 for labor depending on how long it took to remove them. Obviously place two is my choice. My question is, what exactly does a king pin do and is it something I really need done before taking my trip? How do I know if I actually need them?

 

[Bdog1]

Not sure your year , but the king pin is the pivot between the axle and spindle. There a replaceable bushing in each section and a pin through it.

A worn one will slow play ( movement ) they can also bind up. There a pain to get out sometimes!

 

[highdesertranger]

what year is your van? I can't think of any vehicle that still uses king pins any more. older ford, twin I beam? bottom line is they are not going to get better by doing nothing. they will get looser and looser. causing uneven tire wear and funky steering issues. if left long enough will do major damage to the I beams(axle). highdesertranger

 

[decodancer]

Van is an 87 Ford. 4.9 6 cyl. Less than 70,000 miles on the engine but it appears (registration records) that the van sat unused for a long period before I got it. Body and engine are great so I don't mind putting a few bucks into it. I'm just cautious as a woman when I see a guy move a wheel and give me a price of $600 to fix something I've never heard of when I don't notice any issues driving. just want to make sure it's actually needed.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Some questions....
Do you have the money now??
How much do you drive now??
Will you travel before your "River" gig (Amazon)??
How much??
How far to the "River"??
Will you have more money/time after "floating the River"??

In a financial pinch where I wasn't putting hard miles on I might grease the dern thing and get to where I had an income. At the River, you might meet someone with a bunk while repairs are made...or afford a motel a couple nights.

I know others will disagree, but its rare that the king pins are going to bind up if your not hearing pop/clunk/etc and feel it, or have wandering that's uncomfortable to control.
The slightest movement indicates wear and any mechanic worth his salt will recommend replacing the parts BEFORE they get worse. He's going to cover his ass and also has a business to run.

I'm not trying to cause you to have a wreck, but in reality, its a bushing thin bushing that goes bad before any of the harder metals, for good reason. Often, if well greased, the metal to metal wear is very minimal, especially on the road, rather than twist/turn in the city.
Again, I'll catch flack by saying that it could take a few thousand miles to notice a difference in the steering.....but, you will instantly notice the difference after its fixed.

Those I beam Fords are a different duck. there is also what's commonly a "rubber biscuit" under there that usually is past due for replacement by this time if the king pins are going too. They can go bad before king pins that have had regular grease jobs, and cause movement of the wheel when on a jack. Its a different system than Chevy/Dodge of the same age.
I suggest an old school Ford front end guy.
When jacked up, you can look under and see the movement if someone moves the steering wheel.

Ok gang....bombard me for advising someone to to set out with a steering issue, but unless its in real bad condition it will cruise to the next place you can squat to make repairs.
If you jack it up and it reacts with an excessive movement with a "girly kick", I seriously doubt its going to fall apart or cause you to wreck.

Talk to your most trusted mechanic..have him show you. Discuss the need to wait, if need be....but don't go on the word of some guy (me) on the web to insure your safety, Ok???

 

[steamjam1]

Van is an 87 Ford. 4.9 6 cyl. Less than 70,000 miles on the engine but it appears (registration records) that the van sat unused for a long period before I got it. Body and engine are great so I don't mind putting a few bucks into it. I'm just cautious as a woman when I see a guy move a wheel and give me a price of $600 to fix something I've never heard of when I don't notice any issues driving. just want to make sure it's actually needed.

1987 light/medium Ford vans don't have king pins. They have ball joints. It is entirely possible to have a set of worn out ball joints at 70K if they are never greased. Greasing the zerks are a part of every oil change.

 

[highdesertranger]

nothing wrong with doing research. imho at 70,000 the king pins should not be bad unless they were not greased and then driven for a long period. if given proper lube king pins should last well over 300k. I might if I was you to get a second or third opinion. highdesertranger

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Steamjam....wasn't thinking of the light duty engine in relation to front suspensions. Ball joints change the equation.
King pins have been used to handle heavier truck and tractor loads for a long time because they work well under extreme loads. On an old tractor you can change bushings in short order, as the stress of running in rough furrows, etc give them a real beating. Dump trucks hammer the dickens out of them on rough quarry/mine roads and bushings are easier to replace than other steering systems, saving the harder metal parts that do the heavy work. Bushings are what's called a "sacrifice" part.

 

[decodancer]

OK, I'm confused. They do sell king pins for my year van but maybe it's for the heavy duty ones? The van was an ice cream truck at some point but I don't know how well it was maintained. It did pass inspection last year. In answer to your questions Jay (I'm guessing it's not Bindi) No I do not have the money now but could scrape it up over the next few months now that the season has started. I drive maybe 20 miles a week since I work where I live. I do take a trip to NY (2 1/2 hours) every 8 weeks to groom dogs. I make about $400 in two days grooming so a worthwhile trip. It's 11 hours to the Amazon job and I may never move my van while I'm there if I can get a lift to the grocery store. I'm going to work, not sightsee and every hour off will be spent with my pups. I do need to get a tranny flush, oil change, hoses checked etc. so could go to the referred guy for a second opinion when I get that done. I'd love to be able to put it off till after Amazon but I need to make it back to NY in two days (for Christmas and to pick up my big dog) and repair prices there are through the roof. After New Years, I'm on the road constantly.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Sounds like you're going to have to first answer the question (since we can't see) which front end you actually have.
If you can take a clear pic wit would be easy for us to tell.

I have to lean toward the opinion that you're not in dire trouble as of now since you seem to feel comfortable driving.

Yet, I hesitate to vouch for your safety level since I don't want to hear you had a wreck by taking my word online.
I value your life too much!!!

 

[user 423]

I don't mean to diss any advice you might receive on this forum but you would be better off joining a Ford forum where you should get much better info on your specific vehicle.

http://www.fordforums.com/f115/

 

[nowhhs]

For what it's worth, I agree with Jay. I had an MGB with kingpins that used to "clunk" whenever I would brake hard. I drove it that way for many thousand miles without a problem. The steering was a little loose, but not bad. When I finally replaced the bushings (it requires a custom reamer, which is why I didn't do it sooner), they were pretty much completely gone, but other than those symptoms, the fact that they were shot didn't effect much. Unlike ball joints, if the kingpin bushings wear out, the front end isn't going to fall off. If all you're experiencing is slightly loose steering, and it doesn't bother you, I wouldn't worry about it until it does bother you.
Just my $.02.
Norm

 

[decodancer]

Ok, here are pictures. I hope I got what you needed to tell whether I have ball joints or king pins. I've been reading and it seems king pins are a good bit better.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

In pic #1 the king pin yoke is the black (greasy) thing near the wheel with the grease zert on the bottom...behind the horizontal (grayish) bar (steering).

 

[decodancer]

Thanks Jay, guess you solved that puzzle. I think I will take it to the older guy who I was referred to, get all the basic maintenance stuff done and ask his opinion. The fact that he has the specialized reamer makes me feel like he might know a bit about these. Hopefully it will be able to wait and hopefully he doesn't find something else that can't wait. All of you have been so helpful. I do appreciate your input.

 

[Zil]

Do you plan to keep the van? Are you happy with the body and living area? The king pins have grease fittings on top and bottom. If grease can be pushed through then they will last many more miles, if no grease then they will keep wearing. The play will effect your steering, most important your tires will wear quicker. Based on the photoes, you will need more work on the front end components. You may be financially better having most done at the same time. I personally have seen king pins freeze and also broken off on the top.
My $100 advice is let the "old guy" look at things, diagnose the problems, and give you an estimate.
Every thing on any forum is worth what you pay for it.

 

[decodancer]

MORE WORK? What are you seeing Zil? Yes I plan on keeping the van. I get emotionally attached to my vehicles and have it set up to fit my lifestyle. Just a few more cosmetic things to finish. It will be another couple of weeks before I can get it to the mechanic but I will listen to his recommendations. That said, I appreciate the input from the forum members because I feel they have my best interests in mind. They also in most cases can relate to not having a thousand bucks to just toss out the window.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Since he you told he has the reamer, he must have known you have king pins

 

[decodancer]

Actually I called him asking for a price to have king pins done before he even asked what kind of vehicle. He did say he was one of the few places that still had the equipment to do them though. Good old boy for good old van. Hopefully Zil will write back with the other issue he saw in the picture. I will feel more confident that a mechanic is not trying to take advantage if someone else saw a problem first. That is another reason I come to you guys for advice. Unfortunately there are mechanics who will nickel and dime you.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

It might not be that Zil saw something, but simply stating the obvious when an older vehicle already need a major part. The front end doesn't look to have parts replaced. Other things could be bad.
I'm sure your mechanic can diagnose the whole thing and surely would before tearing it down.

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Looking again....yes, you will need some other parts to make the front end "right".