Incident on the land I just bought. At a loss.

[SingleMamaRubberTrampin25]

Okay, so I'm going to try to explain what happened the best I can, stick with me. I have been travelling for the better part of 3 years, housed up for about 6 months after I had my son and hit the road again. Recently I found a great deal for me to finance an acre of land with a very small down payment and $100/mo payments, which is doable for me, so I did it because I wanted to create a home base for us as well. 

I get out there, all is well. I stay 3 nights. I assumed this was the type of area where everyone kept to themselves, considering the dilapidated or makeshift housing I had seen on the same road. The 4th day it's mid afternoon and I hear a honk and a guy's starts screaming and shouting at me that I need to leave, I don't own this, open my door, open my door. I offered to show him the paperwork through the window. But he didn't come to the window, he old me he's going to call the cops. Of course I am not going to open my door to a screaming strange man when it's me and my child in my van. My son starts crying because of the commotion and yelling. I hear him on the phone with the cops, telling them I'm trespassing which I wasn't and had proof. The big issue arose when he told them that I had a kid out there, no running water, etc. He proceeded to OPEN my door. At this point I already has my son strapped in, and the car was on, so I booked it, got down the road and was about to call the cops. They showed up behind me and gave me a field sobriety test, I told them I was camping on my land, about to get a trailer, wanted to see where I wanted it, etc. and they left me alone. 

The plan was to stay there a couple weeks and find an affordable camper. And go that route. I read the zoning laws, apache county doesn't care if you live in a camper. Now at this point I guess my question is, is it even worth it to go back? I know after having a few choice words with this guy, that regardless of if I go back there "legit" with a camper, solar, running water, whatever..he is still going to have it out for me and call cps on me and God forbid they don't see eye to eye with me on what is livable. I called the cps today and asked if living in a camper on land with a kid was okay and the lady said yes if we had a/c, heat, and a refrigerator, etc. Okay, I can make that happen, BUT do I really want to have to go get a restraining order for my neighbor 1/4 a mile away and live my life like that? Worrying about someone who has it out for me calling the county every time I don't follow code to a T.

I'm at a loss. I got this land so that I could have peace and quiet, build towards something and have a place free from the crappy stares I got in parking lots or wherever. Now I feel like it's tainted and I am crushed. I have put about $600 towards it already. ($400 down and made 2 advance payments). Which I understand in reality is not a lot of money, but it is for me. So I guess my options are, cut my losses and leave, go back and deal with a whole cps investigation and butthead neighbor, continue to pay the loan and keep it as an investment, work the land but don't live there, or try to get someone to lease it from me which is probably highly unlikely.

What would you do? Do you guys have any perspective or ideas I'm not thinking of? 

Thanks.

 

[WanderingRose]

Take a breath and let the dust settle from this, is my first thought.

Once police establish that you live on the land legally, maybe this guy will back off.

I would hope police would communicate that clearly to him.

If you really want the land, I wouldn’t run, but stay and work it out.

To avoid the wrath and actions of child welfare authorities, you may need to go into a shelter or other temporary housing while you get your camper established on your land.

Child welfare systems have funds to avoid removal of children due to inadequate shelter and food, and you may be able to access those.

Be cooperative and polite, pay close attention to what they tell you is required of you as a parent, and comply, because there will be consequences if you do not.

And if this guy wants to live his life calling in false reports on you, he will quickly establish himself as not credible. You can’t control other people, just do what is expected of you and then cps can’t intrude.

Good luck to you, and if you want to pm me I would be glad to talk with you more.

 

[SingleMamaRubberTrampin25]

Thanks. I'm currently staying at a friends right now just trying to relax and weigh all my options

 

[WanderingRose]

Good.

You can still do this, but will have to work within the structure of child welfare laws in order to avoid their unwanted intervention.

As I said, they have to help you with adequate shelter for your child, so don’t hesitate to seek out what they can do for you.

If you have to be in a shelter or stay with your friend at night, you can still work on your land and those other things during the day.

Be very, very careful with whom you choose to live and even more so who you may let care for your son in your absence.

Good luck, and don’t hesitate to reach out to me.

 

[Katt]

I completely understand what it's like to have kids and a-hole neighbors who try to wreck your life. You have the paperwork, so this guy can scream all he wants, but it doesn't seem like there's much he can do.

As far as CPS, WanderingRose has put out good advice IMO. See what resources are available and do your best to comply with the laws.

I know you feel violated. I completely understand this feeling. Not going to get into details, but I understand so much how this incident has tainted your feelings about this land. I stood my ground for 12 years with a neighbor directly across the street who called the town/village on us every chance she got for every little thing. There's more to it but I don't want to get into it here. It may be that this guy just doesn't want neighbors and he's trying to scare you off, and probably has done so to others before you. I would stand your ground, obey the laws and tell this guy to pound salt. Get security cameras if you can afford them. I am not against guns but would be nervous about having one with a kid in my care, so I don't know what to say about that. Check your local laws.

I wish you well and please keep us posted.

 

[B and C]

You're running scared from a neighbor that has been used to not having a neighbor and has been treating you're land as his own. Just make absolutely positive that you were on your land.

I would gather a few friends to camp with. Let the police come and sort it out, you are just camping on your land with friends. You've already found out what CPS wants. When he finds out he is in the wrong, he should leave you alone as he has then made himself known to the authorities as a troublemaker. When you run it looks like you knew you were in the wrong and left.

 

[SingleMamaRubberTrampin25]

I have the land mapped out and whatnot so I know the coordinates of all 4 corners. I figure I'll go out there and put up 2 no trespassing signs on the corners by the road, then just go back out there when I have my trailer or rv. I mean the county did say it was okay provided certain amenities were available. Just so stressful. That whole space had been parcels up and sold to multiple land owners. He technically didn't even have the right to call on me having not been the land owner himself. People is exactly what I didn't want to be around. Then this loony comes out of the wood works. By far surpassed every bad experience I have had in the city. I've never had anyone break and enter into my car in the city. I have to go pull the record now and see if I can press charges or at least get a restraining order. Just a headache I didn't want to deal with. Such is life. Thanks guys.

 

[JDub]

I guess the questions I have is: Once the police / deputies responded and got your side of the story, did they tell this guy to back off? Is he already known to them as a troublemaker? Are the authorities going to contact the person you're making payments to? How legit was the land sale that you purchased your lot under? Do you have the verification documents and title search?

If you're in the right, don't back off. Just make sure your i's are dotted and t's are crossed here. If everything is legit then you have every right to be there.

Best of luck!

 

[Camper]

Paying a land surveyor to mark the corners of the property while you watch is worth more than what it costs.

 

[WanderingRose]

The problem is living in a car with a small child, whether that is on a piece of land you own or in a WalMart parking lot..

Law enforcement and child welfare authorities are not going to allow that, and if you want to settle down in that county it would be good to reduce your profile by understanding the laws and complying with them.

You can say you’re just camping, but without an address that will be difficult to prove, and lying to the authorities will not help your situation

You could go into your county courthouse or call their Circuit Clerks office, to speak with someone who could help you write up and file a restraining order, but I doubt that after one incident a judge would sign it.

Where the guy really crossed the line was in opening your door, tho with only your word against his there may not be any charges filed.

 

[SingleMamaRubberTrampin25]

I'll have to get the police report to find all that out. I've contacted my landowner. They know I am a van dweller. They're really sweet people and we're very understanding when I told them about the incident. They're curious as to what his name is as well so they can set him straight because they have a lot of parcels out there and I am sure they don't want this to happen again. I have all the signed owner financing documents. I know for certain the land is deeded to the company I am working with. I do technically have mail with my name on it at a house one state over. This shouldn't even be an issue, but unfortunately it is. This is america, land of the not free at all. They say that if you're not abusing or neglecting your child they won't be taken, but that's not true at all. It's so crazy to me that it's even an issue. Cops have talked to me before and I've just told them I'm on a road trip. Show him my son has diapers, wipes, food, water clothes. The whole 9. They leave me alone after that. But it's like who give a s. if I like in a hut as long as he has his basic needs met and a loving and caring mom. The system is just so screwed.

 

[SingleMamaRubberTrampin25]

Do you have to actually go to a court date to get a restraining order?

 

[SingleMamaRubberTrampin25]

I tried to get him to see the paperwork through the window but he was very aggressive and was insisting I open the door when I refused he started opening the door.

 

[WanderingRose]

If you file a restraining order, you will go before a judge very quickly, he may issue a temporary order and if he does that he will set a date for a more permanent order where the guy can respond is how that usually works.

Whether they will do that with one incident is the question.

Child welfare laws differ a bit from state to state, but most have an Inadequate shelter and Inadequate food allegation, which does not result in removal of a child unless the parent refuses to remedy the situation.

Child welfare authorities have to try to engage the parent to resolve these issues, refer them to services and/or provide some emergency funding, removal only being a last resort.

It doesn’t matter if your child is well cared for, they have already told you that utilities in your camper are a must.

It’s not to harass parents, but to insure basic needs for the child are met.

 

[SingleMamaRubberTrampin25]

I know that it doesn't matter. I am saying I disagree with their thoughts on it. It is to harass parents and make our lives more difficult than it needs to be. I get they think utilities are a necessity, but this society doesn't have a damn right to go telling people how to live. How did we survive happily before these amenities. Basically all laws that are created stem back to forcing people to spend money. Money is the root and cause of all evil. That's the truth. Caseworkers shouldn't have a right to deem a situation unfit based on stuff that does not harm a child mentally or physically. They get to play "god" and yank your kid and give them to people who will molest them, and actually abuse and neglect them. Its just wild and world I don't really want to live in. America is absolute garbage. I can't wait to leave this armpit of a country. But that's a while other topic.

 

[gsfish]

To start with I recommend keeping a detailed log book.

If the guy comes back get a video of his behavior and stay calm yourself.

Posting the property boundaries is a good idea. A game trail camera can document trespassers.

A gun brought in to the mix could get "complicated" very quickly. Would you be prepared to use it?

Get name of crazy man from police report, try to find out more about him.

Get an address if possible and put up a mailbox even if you don't use it. If he messes with the box that is a Federal issue.

Good luck.

Guy

 

[tx2sturgis]

I'd ask the owners if they will refund any of your money, if so, take off. If they will give even half of it back, I'd wash my hands of that place and leave. If not, beg for $200 back, sign a quit claim, and tell them you will leave good reviews and wont complain or file small claims over it.

Chalk it up to 'lessons learned' and move on with your life...you are way too young to have to deal with this kind of drama that can have extremely disastrous consequences...now and in the future.

Is that patch of dirt and that $600 worth your happiness and your future prosperity?

I doubt it.

In your pocket you have a device that can cure this problem completely. It is called an ignition key. Don't be afraid to use it.

 

[Zmann]

...reasons #2 for the 2nd Amendment... and it'd continued implementation...

 

[gsfish]

Best of luck to you in your goal of leaving this "absolute garbage armpit country". Do you have another country in mind?

Guy

 

[IGBT]

If this is Navajo County, the law might not be on your side for what you intend to do:

[font=adelle-sans,][size=small][font=adelle-sans,]CODE ENFORCEMENT[/font][/font][/size]
[font=adelle-sans,][size=small][font=adelle-sans,]*Please reference Section 2516 of the Navajo County Zoning Ordinance for more information.*[/font][/font][/size]

• [font=adelle-sans,]What is a Code Violation?[/font]
  
  • Recreational Vehicle (one time use for > 30 consecutive days within the same calendar year) or primitive camping on vacant property.
  • [font=adelle-sans,][font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][size=x-small]Failed or overflowing septic systems.[/size][/font][/size][/font]
  • [font=adelle-sans,][font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][size=x-small]Inoperable, disabled, or abandoned vehicles.[/size][/font][/size][/font]
  • [font=adelle-sans,][font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][size=x-small]Light pollution in excess of Navajo County Lighting Ordinance or A.R.S. 49-1102.[/size][/font][/size][/font]
  • [font=adelle-sans,][font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][size=x-small]Grading more than fifty (50) cubic yards per year & not complying with the Navajo County Drainage Ordinance. [/size][/font][/size][/font]
  • [font=adelle-sans,][font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][size=x-small]Fire and/or health hazards.[/size][/font][/size][/font]
  • [font=adelle-sans,][font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][size=x-small]Piles of trash and garbage. [/size][/font][/size][/font]
• [font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][font=adelle-sans,]What is not a Code Violation?[/font][/font][/size]
• Ugly or unattractive automobiles, trucks, and recreational vehicles in the rear yard.
• [font=adelle-sans,][font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][size=x-small]Nuisances and/or noisy activities.[/size][/font][/size][/font]
• [font=adelle-sans,][font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][size=x-small]Violation of CC&R's (Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions) and/or Deed Restrictions.[/size][/font][/size][/font]
• [font=adelle-sans,][font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][size=x-small]Weeds in the ditch - along the right of way.[/size][/font][/size][/font]
• [font=adelle-sans,][font=adelle-sans,][size=x-small][size=x-small]Legally parked vehicles along public right of way.[/size][/font][/size][/font]

The 30 day in a calendar year thing though...does that mean you could leave for a day and not have it be consecutive?