Grant's Van Quest

[GrantRobertson]

This is a quest for a van, rather than in a van. I have just about decided to go back to my original plan to get a regular van for my first vehicle. This thread will be about my particular requirements and for folks to help me sus out how to meet them, as well as working through finding an actual van to meet those requirements. More later. I just had to post this so I could link to it from my shuttle conversion thread that I am putting on sabbatical for now.

 

[GrantRobertson]

OK, some requirements / preferences:

Requirements:

• Gas mileage better than 10 MPG.
• NOT a Dodge. (Don't ask. I don't want to start a religious war.)

Strong Preferences:

• Extended length.
• Diesel
• Smaller engine. (I am not going to be carrying/towing tons of weight compared to what I have seen construction workers or landscapers carry/tow with trucks/vans. Even if I get a trailer, it will be mostly full of air.)
• Gas mileage closer to 15 MPG or better.
• Ford, Chevy, or GMC - in that order.
• Barn doors on both the back and side. I want to be able to mount stuff on the insides of the doors that will be useful when standing outside the van.

My planned uses/mods:

• This will be my full-time home. Not just a weekend adventure vehicle.
• I plan to build my own high-top. It will be extra tall to give me full standing height inside. I am 5' 11". (I will start a different thread about the design and construction of this high-top.) Suffice it to say: Said top will have an aluminum frame, insulation,  fiberglass inside and out, and a few features that I don't think anyone has done before.
• Lots of solar. As much as will possibly fit, and then some more. I have some ideas.
• Double-plus off-grid, with lots of water storage. (Which I know adds a lot of weight. Though I figure a forty gallon water tank isn't going to weigh much more than two passengers, which I will not usually be carrying.)
• I plan to carry a lightweight, dual-sport motorcycle on the back and an electric bicycle on the front.
• Later, I plan to tow a utility trailer that will act as my "dirty" shop; A place where I can do woodworking and welding and other stuff one really wouldn't want to do in a living space.
• Stealth-ish for urban stealth. (Following my own suggestion, I think I will try to make it look like a network-cabling contractor's van from the outside.) I am not going to go extreme stealth at the expense of comfort, leaving out all vents or access ports. Though I may try innovative ways to hide the more camper-ish features. 

I have and can easily learn lots of skillz. I will do a really nice build using aluminum frames internally instead of lots-O-2x4s. The fit and finish of the final interior will look almost factory made, without all the factory made RV ugliness.

 

[akrvbob]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wanting diesel limits you to a Ford with a 7.3. That's not bad though since it's a great engine.

It will drastically reduce your available options since there aren't a lot of them out there.

If you're open to gas, and have the money for a newer van, the Chevy 5.3 and 4.8 V8s are my number one choice. Best engine available for MPG since you ruled out the Dodge 318. After that, and older so cheaper:

Ford with 300 IL-6
Ford 302
Tie for Ford 351 or Chevy 350

If you get a Ford 5.4, be ready to put money into the spark plugs.
Bob

 

[Gary68]

my pick would be mid 70's-mid 80's carburetor camper van,gut the particle board interior and do what you want,has hightop,exterior propane tanks,holding tanks,water system and is already registered as a rv for insurance purposes

 

[GrantRobertson]

I guess I left out the most important limitation: I'm going to be on a pretty tight budget. I've got $3,600 now. After regular expenses, I can save about $1,400 per month. Though, I do have some irregular expenses coming up.

Both my housing and my job are pretty precarious right now. The housing: due to my son's impending divorce, and the job: because there are a lot of entrenched and poisonous politics going on where I work. As you might have guessed, I don't play politics well.

So, I am slowly saving but I could be out of a job and/or house at any time.

More later.

 

[Gary68]

might be to big but if it has a small block
http://waco.craigslist.org/rvs/5306990637.html

also saw a couple camper vans

 

[ZoNiE]

Forget the budget, only a Transit meets your spec.

 

[GrantRobertson]

Forget the budget, only a Transit meets your spec.

Which parts do you think are unreasonable?

 

[GrantRobertson]

might be to big but if it has a small block
http://waco.craigslist.org/rvs/5306990637.html

also saw a couple camper vans

I like that the door is in the back.

 

[B and C]

Which parts do you think are unreasonable?

You seem to place a lot of weight on MPG.  With the eye opener you got on the shuttle bus's MPG, this may not sound as bad.  I would only expect 10-12 MPG at best.  Throw a trailer on it and it goes down.  I don't know how much you will be driving though and if in town mostly, expect the 10 MPG.

 

[GrantRobertson]

You seem to place a lot of weight on MPG.  With the eye opener you got on the shuttle bus's MPG, this may not sound as bad.  I would only expect 10-12 MPG at best.  Throw a trailer on it and it goes down.  I don't know how much you will be driving though and if in town mostly, expect the 10 MPG.

Well, I'd like to start at at least 15 mpg, unloaded and unadorned, thus hoping to stay above 10 mpg fully loaded and with a light trailer. Considering the mileages I've seen reported, I don't think this is terribly unreasonable.

 

[B and C]

With my Roadtrek (454 ci) and pulling the Geo on a tow dolly, I get about 11.5 before a recent tune up on the highway at 65.  I hope it goes at least to 12.  I have not weighed this setup yet, but I am guessing well less than my 17,000 lb GCWR even with full tanks.

 

[GrantRobertson]

More later.

Also, I figure I can get between $1k and $2k for the car I have now.

 

[akrvbob]

With my Roadtrek (454 ci) and pulling the Geo on a tow dolly, I get about 11.5 before a recent tune up on the highway at 65.  I hope it goes at least to 12.  I have not weighed this setup yet, but I am guessing well less than my 17,000 lb GCWR even with full tanks.

But, when you factor in the great mileage of the Geo, my guess is your yearly average is pretty impressive. Seems like a great set-up.
Bob

 

[akrvbob]

You ruled out the Dodge 318 which is a very good engine for MPG, the newer Chevys 5.3 and 4.8 are superb and capable of amazing MPG, but they are new enough to possibly be out of your price range. The Ford 5.4 gets good MPG but the spark plug problem can bite you in the butt at any time. If you can do that repair, it's probably your best choice.

A better option is the Ford 300 in line 6, rock-solid engine with very good MPG, but they are hard to find and a little small to tow with. After that I would look for a Ford 302. Great engine, decent MPG, not great for towing.
Bob

 

[masterplumber]

If I recall Ford did put the 6.0 diesel in vans also, but you definitely done't want one - way to many EGR problems. I traveled in Baja with a couple that had a fully loaded 4x4 Sportsmobile and regularly got better than 17 MPG out of it with the 7.3 diesel. I had a extended Ford van with a 5.4 liter that got right at 12 mpg loaded with tools and driven like I stole it. I understand the Dodge issue, as it seems when they're good, they're really good, but when they're bad, they're really bad, and I'm not familiar with the different years/models enough to know why seemingly identical vans can be so different in terms of power and reliability. I like the older carbureted Chevys with a 350, but they rarely get better than 10 mpg. The new Chevys are much better on that front, some even pushing 20 mpg when lightly loaded and driven carefully.
I think your plans are good, I just wouldn't go to the trouble of building aluminum frames for the interior work myself. I don't think you'll end up saving that much weight, as you still need to cover those frames with something. I think building with plywood can end up just as light, and maybe even stronger if done well. And definitely cheaper unless you have access to a bunch of aircraft grade aluminum scrap and a TIG welder.

 

[eDJ_]

There are Auto Brokers who find vehicles for customers.  I've purchased a couple of new cars through an agency in Toledo, Ohio.  I don't know if he's still in business however.  All he asked was "exactly" what you wanted and how far you were willing to drive to pick it up.  He could find best deals on new or used and his fee would save
loads of money compared to chasing all around hunting for what you want.

Next,  before you commit to a smaller engine talk to some old school mechanics about the virtues of larger ones
and comparative gas mileage.   In some cases the larger ones do actually get a bit better gas mileage odd as that
sounds. It may not be a huge difference but still it may in the long term make a difference. 

I wish my 90 E 350 high top had the 460 V8 instead of the 351 V8.   I rarely exceed 55 mph even on the interstate because if I try to run at 65 mph the mileage takes a nose dive.  I guess it's just the frontal size
trying to plow through the air at that speed that just strains the 351 that much.  It has an auto with over
drive but even so going up long grades requires me to switch off the OD.  (and again mileage drops)

This Van was originally used around a town to deliver bulky auto parts like exhaust pipes etc. For that it
was fine.   Out on the road I wish I had the other 109 cubic inches of the 460.    I've owned this rig for a few
years now well enough to become familiar with it's operational characteristics.

 

[B and C]

I am so glad mine is a 454 (7.4L for those that don't compute).  I don't get great gas mileage (11.5 on a 2000 model), but I don't plan to drive all that much.  Relocate every couple of weeks.  I can't even imagine a 350 pulling this rig up some of the mountains it has been on.  Foot flat on the floor in second gear doing 35 MPH.  It would have been easier on the engine/trans if I had been in first and doing 20 MPH but I don't think my nerves or the people behind me would have appreciated it much.  Always seems like a long time for that pullout to appear to let the lightweight speeders pass and then to get it back to 20 is tough as I have to accelerate.  Ever been on the million dollar highway (550) in Colorado North Silverton?  If it weren't for those darn hairpin turns, I could have gone up much faster.  Maintaining speed by downshifting is easier than accelerating and more torque is better.  There is no substitution for cubic inches except for cubic money (old racing term).  How about that stretch of I-80 going East through Wyoming?  At least it is straight and I was able to maintain my 65 MPH

 

[NeedAnEscape]

I wish my 90 E 350 high top had the 460 V8 instead of the 351 V8.   I rarely exceed 55 mph even on the interstate because if I try to run at 65 mph the mileage takes a nose dive.  I guess it's just the frontal size
trying to plow through the air at that speed that just strains the 351 that much.  It has an auto with over
drive but even so going up long grades requires me to switch off the OD.  (and again mileage drops)

I have a 460 in my van, and it gets 8 mpg. I met a guy with a similar van with the 300 I6 that gets 9.5 mpg. His was newer so he has fuel injection (mine has a carb), but still had he C6 so no overdrive. My van is also the extended body, his was a standard body. Both our vans are 4x4 converted with 33" tires. He also mentioned he drove 55 on the highway, I normally do 60.

 

[jimindenver]

I would miss the power the 5.4 in my expedition has. It may slow to 40 MPH on the steepest hills towing but it can run at 80 on the flat without breaking a sweat. Normally I tow no faster than 65 mph.

That said the 300 in lines are what I'd look for. I've had a few and they last longer than the vans around them. Decent MPG if you don't keep you foot in it, easy to work on and remember it's not a little 6 banger. At 4.9 L it's bigger than some V-8s.