Grand Caravan - slow buildout

[WQTraveller]

Hi:

As I mentioned in my introductory post, I just bought a 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan as a second vehicle. I am 51, and hope to be retiring before the decade is out. In the past, I have camped with my dogs in a tent, teardrop and tent trailers. We usually do three day weekend trips once a month and a two-week trip in early August. I am hoping that the step up to a van will extend the length of our camping season, and the frequency and length of my trips.

Below is basically a pre-planing photo of my vehicle build. The mattress inside is from my teardrop. It is a 81"x31.5"x4" folding mattress with a fold at 27". The mattress is a little narrow for my liking, but it is so comfortable and as long as there is no husband or boyfriend in the picture, using the current mattress is fine. The 16" beside the bed will likely be valuable real estate.



Like many no-build builds, I plan to build a lumber frame with a plywood surface and storage underneath. I want to hinge the bed frame surface at 27" to allow for more access to items in the back. Initially, I will cool with a cooler and use my two burner stove with propane tank for cooking. I have oodles of Ryobi tools and batteries, so I'll depend on the Ryobi light and fans with their batteries. I am going to forego heating in the beginning, but as the year goes on, I will try to find a solution that works in a part-time camper.

The Stow-and-Go seats are stowed, but not gone, so I don't have any plans initially to remove them. That may change as I desire more space and I feel confident that no passengers will be riding in the back. I'm plenty strong, but don't know if I'm strong enough to install and install the seats on a regular basis.

To repeat, I expect that my electrical, cooking, refrigeration, sleeping and heating needs will evolve. It won't be finished until the day that I drive it to the wrecker. I hope to start small, adding needed items and removing unnecessary car components as I go. I'll share as long as there's interest in the van's development.

 

[bullfrog]

Looks good a bed, a bucket and a Ryobi 18 volt power station with a vehicle charger will work well. I use the larger Ryobi 18 volt batteries to run a fan 8 hours on low. The desk lights work 2 or 3 days on one charge. Have a spare battery to charge while traveling. Once the small businesses open back up for food and showers it should be easy. A National Park annual pass close to BLM land is well worth it as it gives you access to lots of stuff during the day.

 

[WQTraveller]

I have seven batteries, five 1.5 Ah and two 4 Ah. If I need a tool and am not in a hurry, I watch Home Depot Flyers. Every few months they run specials where they throw in batteries. This thing was my most recent purchase. 

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ryobi-150w-powered-inverter-generator-for-18v-battery/1001489458

It does a great job at keeping electronics charged if I don't want to run off the car battery. At 150W max, its uses are narrow. I wonder if it can handle a Foresty Forest-esque slow cooker. Anyhow, I also have a Ryobi impact wrench for wheel removal, three saws: circular, mitre and jogsaw, a drill, flashlights, a radio and even a weed whacker etc that run off one type of battery. If I didn't already have a Greenworks battery-powered lawnmower, I'd have a Ryobi one of those too. Had I known that they were exclusive to Home Depot, I might have hesitated, but Home Depots are all over North America, adding to the collection is easy and it's doubtful that they will be discontinued. They are not the best tools, but for their infrequent use, I like that a lot of the tools are undersized. I'm plenty strong, but the average dude could outlift me without too much. 

If Ryobi ever sold a solar battery charger for its 18 volt batteries, I'd consider it. The Ryobi 'fridge' looks like a cooler with a fan on it, so I'll do a hard no on that. 

At the risk of turn this into a Home Depot/Ryobi advert, I'll shut it down here and thanks for the feedback.

 

[bullfrog]

Really I now use the vehicle charger powered by a simple solar system as well when parked but do also have an inverter hooked to it’s AGM battery for heavier loads. The large Ryobi batteries are heavy but I use them for lights, fans and a wet/dry vacuum as I don’t have to hold them all day long while using them. I carry a drill, impact, light, spot light and tire air pump along with an extra battery in the charger .

 

[WQTraveller]

The build is proceeding at a glacial pace. It's okay. We're still in the height of winter up here in the National Capital Region and travelling won't be happening for three months. Anyhow, I watched a video by a fellow named BudgetTravelGuy and he was suggesting components to buy to build out a no-build van at a few different price points. Since I am a long-time camper, I already have a lot of gear, but the two things that jumped out at me on his $1000 build video was the bed frame and fridge.  I ordered a bed frame and toilet as per his suggestion. I held back on the fridge because shipping to Canada was stupidly expensive and I am in no hurry for a fridge anyhow, but I will get one once the border re-opens and travel is relatively safe. I think that Bob Wells also had a video using a steel bed frame for a no-build build as well. My original plan was to make a wood bed frame, but I am glad that I went with the steel.

As I mentioned earlier, the mattress is from my Teardrop trailer. It was sized to be towed by a motorcycle, so there was less than three feet of space inside it.  As a result, I picked up a mattress at IKEA which was designed for outdoor furniture and used it. The bed is so comfortable.  I got the 31 inch wide frame. It works for the most part.  I had a lay down and felt secure and comfortable.



[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I do have two issues. The first one is the length of the mattress and the second is the height of the legs. The mattress is 81 inches long and the bed frame is 75 inches long. I have three choices: cut the mattress; build a box between the frame and front seat to store things and hold the last six inches up; or buy a 31 x 75 inch mattress.  I am leaning towards #3, though #1 would alllow me to match the cut to the curve of the Grand Caravan's rear door.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]It was kind of dark in the camper because it is covered in snow and I was using my phone camera, but there is definitely an issue with the height of the bed. I need to drop it three to four inches for it to be comfortable to sit on without banging my head on the ceiling.  I'm going to cut the legs. The steel seems soft and it should cut easily. Bloody minivans and their uneven floors will make it hard to get it just right.  My camping gear goto for storage are Rubbermaid ten gallon totes.  They are 8-3/4 inches tall so if the bed is 10 inches above the floor in the back and levelish for the rest of the length of the van then I think that we'll be good.[/font]



It's a great solutuon. This bed frame folds up pretty compactly when I need to use the van as a van. I just want to devise an easy and safe way to keep the frame secured to the floor.  I was thinking of a turnbuckle tensioner to the seat mounts.

Spring is coming and I am looking forward to getting out on the road. I haven't booked Victoria Day weekend travel, but I would love to get down to Lake Ontario or the St. Lawrence River with my dog in the van.

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Living in the north during the winter is the worst time to build things. But most times schedules don't cooperate and time waits for no man. But keep going and keep us updated. We like photos!

 

[user 30781]

I have a Grand Caravan too and I'm going to fit her out for some roadtrips this spring, see if life on the road and I are a good match. I am glad to be able to see how much space a 31" mattress will take up. I've been going back and forth between a 25" cot size, a 31" and a 38".

 

[user 37446]

If you can do it a 24-25" would certainly be better width-wise.

As for the uneven floors, I think BW did a video a year or more ago on building a bed for one of the first HOWA minivans, something about using different lengths of pvc pipe over the bedframe legs to even it up.

 

[WQTraveller]

If you can do it a 24-25" would certainly be better width-wise.

As for the uneven floors, I think BW did a video a year or more ago on building a bed for one of the first HOWA minivans, something about using different lengths of pvc pipe over the bedframe legs to even it up.

Yesterday, it was above 0°C and warm enough to work outside. It will be 5 today and unfortunately there is so much snow in my yard that I can't get at my tent trailer or shed for more gear.

I went with the 31 inch frame because I already had the mattress. It may be a bit of penny-wise-pound foolish move if I decide to buy a shorter mattress because I don't want to cut the existing mattress 6 inches. A 25 inch mattress is fine. I've used 25 inch pads tent camping and even though the bed in my house is a queen-size.  I don't use half its width. The beagle stretches out more than I do.

I saw Bob's video on levelling a bed in a minivan. It actually made me cringe. It neither seemed safe nor prudent, but it was a clever solution to the uneven floor problem. I may use some pipe around the rear legs to keep them from sliding into the crack in the floor where the Stow&Go seats are.

For the bed, there were two choices: 1) raise the front; or 2) lower the back. I guess that there's a third choice, both. Lowering the back made the most sense. The frame is 14 inches high. The totes to store stuff is 9 inches tall.  Reducing the back 4.5 inches to 9.5 inches, then adjusting the middle and front to keep the frame level would have been ideal. The leg brace got in the way and only 3.5 inches off could be trimmed off the back. The middle was cut back 3.25 and the front 0.75 inches. With the 4 inch mattress, I can barely sit on the frame and not touch the ceiling with my head. While I am slightly disappointed, it's still a major gain and there are probably workarounds. The bed is probably the most important component that I needed to add. I have electric and propane-powered camping appliances already so my focus is going to be on curtains, storage without clutter, and ventilation over the next couple of months. The picture below doesn't do the bed frame justice, but the tote fits. I left the chicken feed bag there to show that there is floor space.



Thanks for following this. It is motivating to document progress however slow it is. For this build, I am lucky to have loads of time to ensure safety and utility. The time spent might as well be enjoyed.

 

[user 37446]

I didn't realize the GC's floor sloped so much. Doesn't look like it from peoples pictures. Your post #1 looks pretty flat to my old eyes.

 

[WQTraveller]

Today I did a little more on the van.  It was a gorgeous day and the animals were spring happy so it was a perfect afternoon for doing work.  I didn't do much today.  I just cut out the Reflectix and test fitted a tent that I bought.

I am not sure how much use the tent will get and will probably limit it to campgrounds in from late June to late August when it's hot at night. My primary purpose is keeping allowing for a breeze.

I am surprised how easy it is to work with Reflectix. I haven't decided what I am going to do with the outside facing panels.  Since the windows are factory tinted, I would like to blacken them. I've seen people on Youtube, using fabric, paint and rubberized vinyl.  I also saw one person use carpet tape. I just want to give the panels a good chance at lasting the summer and fall.

I managed to get into the tent trailer.  Water got in.  I didn't open it all of 2020 and hope that there isn't mildew on the tent walls.  I managed to extract the loo and cooking gear and will take the beagle on a ride down to the St. Lawrence River for a test overnight. I have found a few places on freecampsites.net The low in Brockville Ontario will be -3°C/26°F between 5 and 8 AM.  It's a little below my comfort level, but I am hoping that the van is up to keeping uss warm. The worst case scenario is that we hotel it or come home early if it's not comfortable.

Here are the photos. After I took the phots, I move some gear in. I am not liking the clutter. The stow and go seats might need to be taken out if I can find a place to store them over the summer and fall. Camping season is coming....I can't wait.

Jenn

Photos are below.

Reflectix inside
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[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Side view of tent and reflectix viewable through tinted window.[/font]
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[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Rear view through tent.[/font]
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[user 30781]

I didn't realize the GC's floor sloped so much. Doesn't look like it from peoples pictures. Your post #1 looks pretty flat to my old eyes.

It must be the newer ones with the Stow & Go seats because the back of my '97 GC is level.

 

[WQTraveller]

It definitely has the Stow & Go and there is a visible one inch drop.  I am amazed that it's that significant myself.

 

[user 37446]

The BudgetTravelGuy had a Chevy Venture that he recently scrapped and replaced with an 05' GC. He said his wooden bed frame is 8" off the floor due to needing to be able to sit on it and not touch the headliner. He is 5'10" so maybe you could go a bit higher on your frame for a bit taller of storage tubs. Leveling with a wood frame would be easier but even with a metal leg frame you could block it up.

He also used Refectix though to me that ruins stealth unless you spray paint it black, then it doesn't reflect. Personally I spray painted cardboard though if I were to do it again I'd buy dollar store poster board that is already flat black.

The BudgetTravelGuy certainly presents a good balance on the choice of a minivan vs a full sized van. I find that ventilation is the biggest problem as there really isn't a good way to do a roof vent without ruining the minivan for resale.

His point on the high cost of the portable power stations is certainly valid, you could have a 100 amp hour 12v marine battery with the needed isolator and wiring for 1/2 of the J brand 500 watt unit. As with anything, you pay for conveniance.

The other point in favor of a minivan is basically all of your licensing and annual projected maintenance is "free" if compared with the fuel cost of a full zized van. For example, 10,000 annual miles at 25mpg (minivan highway) vs 15 mpg (fs van highway) = 266 gallons of fuel difference. At $3 a gallon thats almost $800, which pays for your licensing and normal maintenance costs of the minivan every year. You do have to drive 10K miles but hey, thats not that hard to do.

 

[WQTraveller]

Last weekend, I took the dog to the town of Gananoque Ontario for a test run. It's about 100 km from where I live and it's on the St. Lawrence River in the Thousand Islands.  We left in the afternoon and did a little two lane drive around eastern Ontario. We got into Gananoque at around 8:30 PM and found a spot by the river, ordered take-out Chinese food, had dinner, went for a walk and went to bed. The dog enjoyed the fried rice and I enjoyed the General Tso's chicken.

Gananoque is a tourist town and it's out of season so there are a lot of empty hotels and motels in case it became uncomfortable. I just had the bed, a couple of duvets, my portable toilet, my Ryobi batteries plus the 150 watt inverter attachment, a bluetooth radio and my portable loo.

The temperatures got down to -2°C [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]overnight [/font]which is I guess around 28°F and in the past was out of my comfort level. It was fine except for toes being a little chilly. The next morning, we did a walk around the town, had a late breakfast and came home a different route looking for more remote boondocking sites in Lanark and Renfrew Counties in Ontario and Pontiac County in Quebec and got home in the late afternoon. We did a 420 km / 250 mile round trip over the weekend. With 100 km of city driving on the tank before, it took 51 litres to refill the van. That means my fuel consumption was around 10 L/100 km.  A Google conversion says that my van is getting 23.5 MPG. MPG doesn't really make much sense to me, but I know that higher is better and I am using about 25% more fuel in the van than in my Crosstrek. Fuel economy in the van should improve once we put summer tires on the vehicle, have the wheels aligned for it and gas stations start selling summer blends of gasoline. That being said, sleeping is not comfortable in the Crosstrek. I had to do it once when I had a trailer tire blowout and spent the night in a truck stop parking lot.

The lessons learned is that the van insulated only with Reflectix is fine for below freezing temperatures. I am not certain that I will need a heater for the shoulder seasons afterall. Unless I have new needs such as a powered refrigerator when it gets hotter, then I don't even need a leisure battery or Jackery-type gadget in the van.  My Ryobi tool batteries run lights, the radio, charge my phone and can charge other electronics including the laptop. A sleeping bag might be useful for the cold toes, but that won't last very long and I prefer my down duvet anyhow.

My next trip will start tomorrow morning and I will head into Renfrew County.  I picked up a butane stove because it was on sale and put it in the van. I also retreived my cooking gear and dishes from the tent trailer and ran them through the dishwasher. We will be able to cook this time. While I have a couple of Coleman-type stoves already, I think that I may like the butane stove. It's compact, so it stores easily in the van and in a test with my lunch today, it simmers nicely. My propane stoves were not good at low heat.

Thanks for the support. I will provide more photos as I add to the van. It's really just about where I want it. Its a comfortable no-build that has space for expansion. I just need to work on my flexibility.  Getting in and out of the van was a challenge and I am too young and uninjured to be having sore joints from entering an exiting a vehicle. 

Regarding BudgetTravel Guy, I like the guy. Out of all the vanlife channels on YouTube that I am aware of, BudgetTravelGuy, Foresty Forest and Slim Potatohead are my top three. Though each of the fellows are quite different and their channels focus on different elements of solo travel, yet they all emphasise self-reliance, thrift and creativity.  It makes for enjoyable and informative viewing.

 

[bullfrog]

Sounds like you did well! Almost any older vehicle can be converted to have a flat surface for a bed simply by removing seats and using a sheet of supported plywood. I had a 1986 Honda Civic done that way I called the Hondabago! Not much ground clearance but for urban or state parks camping was great. Long trips could be done cheaply as it got 44 MPG in town and 55 MPG on the interstate. It was nice because all I had to do to get in and out was sit up, swing my feet and legs out the door and stand up. Seems to me things were a lot simpler and easy then but I guess getting old changes that! LOL!!!

 

[WQTraveller]

I always liked those 84-91 Civics. They were just wedges and had little to nothing inside, but they went quickly and handled well despite their lawnmower-sized engines. In late high school and uni I had a Chevy Cavalier and later a Dodge Aries. I was a bit jealous of Japanese car owning friends, but I learned how to fix a car by driving those unreliable sedans.

 

[bullfrog]

I had a friend that bought a small Dodge that thought is was the best car ever! Up until then the only cars he had owned were British Triumphs! LOL!!!

 

[user 30781]

I had an '89 Dodge Aries right up until that morning in November when I was coming home and it decided to self destruct by blowing it's head gasket or possibly cracking it's block. Leading me to come home, open Craigslist and finding my Grand Caravan which was listed just the night before. It was actually a pretty good little car. It looked like something a librarian would drive. lol

I'm about to go out and nap in the back of her for the first time, see if the 4" mattress I got is going to be comfortable enough or if it needs a topper.

 

[jaybgood]

Hello fellow Caravan owners, I have purchased a 2010 Grand Caravan SE with Stow and Go seating and I would like to build a conversion utilizing the space best as possible, figured with 10 years producing the same vehicle same dimensions hundreds of thousands if not millions of these vans have been converted some using AutoCAD. Hoping to get my hands on an AutoCAD design specifically to save me from doing dimensions ground up. Any files, concept drawings, recommendations or opinions that may help me in my build I would greatly appreciate. Thanks & happy travels.