Forming an Intentional Community/split

[thebarefootbadger]

This is apropos of nearly nothing, but the other day I was reading about multi-age Danish co-housing communities, and it occurred to me how much less expensive it is to do aging in tandem with others. To pool what may be a dwindling supply of skills and resources so that everyone is supported. Or ideally bring new younger members in as the old ones eventually decline and age out. I know, I know, if I'm such a socialist I should move away and so on, God Bless America, and I love my privacy and independence as much as anyone. But seriously, a lot of what we pay for is not our essentials, it's our insistence on going it alone (or the lack of any sort of organized system or support or socialization for doing anything as a non-familial group.) We don't know how to work together in a non-competitive, non-capitalist way, and therefore we don't try.

Just to be clear, I'm not pointing fingers. I thought, a few years ago, in my early 50's, that it would be ideal to be a sextet with friends rather than three separate couples (not romantically, but in a living situation.) Then I thought of how awkward and strange, even creepy, I would sound to even suggest it to my Ameri-normal friends.

 

[Sky]

This is apropos of nearly nothing, but the other day I was reading about multi-age Danish co-housing communities, and it occurred to me how much less expensive it is to do aging in tandem with others. To pool what may be a dwindling supply of skills and resources so that everyone is supported. Or ideally bring new younger members in as the old ones eventually decline and age out. I know, I know, if I'm such a socialist I should move away and so on, God Bless America, and I love my privacy and independence as much as anyone. But seriously, a lot of what we pay for is not our essentials, it's our insistence on going it alone (or the lack of any sort of organized system or support or socialization for doing anything as a non-familial group.) We don't know how to work together in a non-competitive, non-capitalist way, and therefore we don't try.

Just to be clear, I'm not pointing fingers. I thought, a few years ago, in my early 50's, that it would be ideal to be a sextet with friends rather than three separate couples (not romantically, but in a living situation.) Then I thought of how awkward and strange, even creepy, I would sound to even suggest it to my Ameri-normal friends.

Well what you have observed is true. We as a CULTure of everything monetized have lost all sight of community,tribal,village relations. Families are also very divided for the most part. It is the ultimate success of dividing and conquering that has everyone disconnected too bust trying to survive divided and funneling all resources to the Corporate Plantation owners. Sorry that so many of us brainwashed and zombied and just do not 'care' do not want to become more informed and are like blinded by such words as socialism and I do not dare say the C word, such social taboos. Hopefully Bob's heart felt desire to bring people together as the Rving and Nomad communities has scratched the surface of all that. I am sorry to say in 2016 and even now in 2022, I observe that until many more loose more, the ability to consider such things on a larger social scale, I feel more will have to suffer before they are not willing to concern themselves with the deterioration of our society under corporate cannibalistic monetizing everything and every relationship, gutting people of their origin to understand we survive and even thrive better in small cooperative communities. I met many over age 50 people who had degrees and lost all after 2008. I see how the local Native Pueblo has empowered it's people here in NM albeit greed has no ethnicity or allegiance and they have had their issues with internal power grabs and corruption too. But what you say is valid, it just may take unfortunately longer for the 100th monkey to come around. I have two sets of family members in their 70's-80's who were serious business workaholic and 'successful' yet who due to health issues and aging both lost their houses. Now it is no longer just a statistic that I am aware of it is up close. They just solidified my resolve to continue living as I do solvent both mobile and with a land base growing food, as bat sh*t crazy they have thought I was all these decades. I have considered other fixed income people to land share with but our love/addiction of convenience society sent them packing as they would rather be in an apartment close into town. I understand that too, but I am not willing to pay that costs since I love being out in nature and my privacy nor do I want the noise and constant wi fi and other pollutants that go with that lifestyle. There is similar housing I am familiar with in the states, but it often costs a lot to move in 300k + if the rest of the folks interview and approve you. If I had several 100k, I'd rather put it into something else I own free in clear. Ironically when I was in the 6th grade and learned about social structures I told my sister socialism did not sound so bad and she replied, "no way I don't want to be told when,how much and where to work" Recently she was whining about how demanding and extra hours she has had too work and complaining that she want's to remain at home working online. I told her, "geez your 66 and it seems what you did not want has happened anyways as your implied when,where and how long you have to work with no retirement in sight." So cheers for your bringing this up, as we can have a much better time pulling together to thrive and not just survive. I have always welcomed nomads to the land base during the warm weather and I think it really takes a lot of getting to know people in order to make sure your compatible for longer term community building because it is true we are including myself not well endowed with the skills of getting along outside of monetary,shopping or social ladder climbing ventures.

 

[Carla618]

... I feel more will have to suffer before they are not willing to concern themselves with the deterioration of our society under corporate cannibalistic monetizing everything and every relationship, gutting people of their origin to understand we survive and even thrive better in small cooperative communities.

I agree with much of what you said, but am unclear what your vision is for "small cooperative communities."

 

[rruff]

I agree with much of what you said, but am unclear what your vision is for "small cooperative communities."

There are many in the US. You can organize it however you like. It is not hard to form them... but they are difficult to keep going smoothly. It helps if there is some uniting principal that can serve as as a guide/authority for the group... something to fall back on when disparate "wants" result in conflict.

 

[Sky]

LOL. Probably because I do not have a clear 'realistic vision yet'. I just have an experience of looking into the 'Communities Directory' 28 years ago and deciding to forego any of those. Prior and after that I have volunteered in various types of groups to always find that someone's egoistic or control issues create many problems ultimately compromising the groups goals. And I had seen many mention that in the Communities Directory. I am not an optimist but I do think that given the right people with shared interests as well as the ability to operate from a place of common good as well as having personal self awareness and conflict resolution skills it an be possible. I did buy land from a failed community which was not an "Intentional Community" but more a failed cult. They were desperate for capitol. contacted me via a local newspaper ad I had placed and were willing to sell to anyone with greenbacks and have all vacated over the past 2 decades. It is difficult to have a concise vision for a community w/o a community, otherwise I become just another insecure control personality that wants to dictate to others, LOL. In my situation since I own the land I am more concerned about my preferences being respected on the land and I believe that the more shared interests and some ideologies make it easier to do with folks especially as more people become nomadic,tiny homes or in homes on wheels. I am not adverse to bricks n motor especially in this climate but it adds a much more complexity and draws the legal entities into play which was a large part of how the people I purchased from ended up failing because the government stepped in wanting them to put in expensive infrastructure. I seriously believe that the kind of people on this forum are more postured for coming together in community. I would certainly be open to whatever suggestions you have regarding this. BTW I was in a training for a community concept which originated in the UK called 'Transition Town" which was offered in my college class in Sustainable Studies but I have chucked it, because it was not really taking hold here in the US. Also because I am more pragmatic and into rolling up my sleeves and doing rather than just talking and navel gazing. I just love being in nature and tending my food forests.

 

[Carla618]

BTW I was in a training for a community concept which originated in the UK called 'Transition Town" which was offered in my college class in Sustainable Studies but I have chucked it, because it was not really taking hold here in the US.

I did a search for "do most cultures live in houses" and found this:

https://slate.com/culture/2007/04/why-do-we-live-in-houses-anyway.html
It is just one article, but explains that people all over the world have historically preferred individual dwellings. I thought maybe you meant communal living in structures. Maybe you want socialism, or social democracy. I know I do, but pro-capitalist / anti-socialist propaganda is so pervasive in the U.S. it seems it may never happen. At least not without a better educational system. That's not political, because it comes from both parties (in this two-party system).

So aside from sharing living quarters, what resources could be pooled to help nomads? Someone mentioned that in this thread.

 

[Ripper238]

There are many in the US. You can organize it however you like. It is not hard to form them... but they are difficult to keep going smoothly. It helps if there is some uniting principal that can serve as as a guide/authority for the group... something to fall back on when disparate "wants" result in conflict.

I couldn't read through Sky's very long run-on sentence too well, but I think I get the gist.

I have been pondering a good way to create a small cooperative community for a while now too. But the key is having the proper foundation for it and I think there may be a few options. But boy has this thread gone off topic. lol

 

[Carla618]

I couldn't read through Sky's very long run-on sentence too well, but I think I get the gist.

I have been pondering a good way to create a small cooperative community for a while now too. But the key is having the proper foundation for it and I think there may be a few options. But boy has this thread gone off topic. lol

Not a run-on sentence, lol. I write run-on sentences. Sky just needs paragraph breaks.

Sky, hit shift > enter to start a new paragraph.

 

[Carla618]

There are many in the US. You can organize it however you like. It is not hard to form them... but they are difficult to keep going smoothly. It helps if there is some uniting principal that can serve as as a guide/authority for the group... something to fall back on when disparate "wants" result in conflict.

I can't live in groups. Just trying to understand what others are proposing about nomads pooling their resources to save money. In a way, HOWA is one example.

 

[rruff]

I can't live in groups.

It is necessarily more restrictive, since you still have the county/state/federal laws to contend with, and then the community rules on top. And someone needs to enforce those rules.

 

[Ripper238]

It is necessarily more restrictive, since you still have the county/state/federal laws to contend with, and then the community rules on top. And someone needs to enforce those rules.

There may be a way around this. Need to have a meeting with some Native Americans.

 

[rruff]

There may be a way around this. Need to have a meeting with some Native Americans.

You think they'll let you form a community on the rez?

 

[JDub]

A lot of these ideas have been tried before. With, shall we say, VARIED results. Israeli Kibbutzim are probably the most successful modern versions of "communal living". Some good recipes though!

http://www.kitchensisters.org/hidde...itchens/#symple-tab-barrel-style-dill-pickles
Cheers!

 

[txmnjim]

There are many in the US. You can organize it however you like. It is not hard to form them... but they are difficult to keep going smoothly. It helps if there is some uniting principal that can serve as as a guide/authority for the group... something to fall back on when disparate "wants" result in conflict.

yes, i have a nice Intentional Communities directory and once we get going i plan on visiting a few. but to get back to the $700 part of this thread, i know i couldn't live on that much! i'm trying my best to get absolutely debt free (and get healthier!) by 2028 or i will NOT be able to make it on the measly $1650/mo i'll be due

 

[Catalyst1]

LOL. Probably because I do not have a clear 'realistic vision yet'. I just have an experience of looking into the 'Communities Directory' 28 years ago and deciding to forego any of those. Prior and after that I have volunteered in various types of groups to always find that someone's egoistic or control issues create many problems ultimately compromising the groups goals. And I had seen many mention that in the Communities Directory. I am not an optimist but I do think that given the right people with shared interests as well as the ability to operate from a place of common good as well as having personal self awareness and conflict resolution skills it an be possible. I did buy land from a failed community which was not an "Intentional Community" but more a failed cult. They were desperate for capitol. contacted me via a local newspaper ad I had placed and were willing to sell to anyone with greenbacks and have all vacated over the past 2 decades. It is difficult to have a concise vision for a community w/o a community, otherwise I become just another insecure control personality that wants to dictate to others, LOL. In my situation since I own the land I am more concerned about my preferences being respected on the land and I believe that the more shared interests and some ideologies make it easier to do with folks especially as more people become nomadic,tiny homes or in homes on wheels. I am not adverse to bricks n motor especially in this climate but it adds a much more complexity and draws the legal entities into play which was a large part of how the people I purchased from ended up failing because the government stepped in wanting them to put in expensive infrastructure. I seriously believe that the kind of people on this forum are more postured for coming together in community. I would certainly be open to whatever suggestions you have regarding this. BTW I was in a training for a community concept which originated in the UK called 'Transition Town" which was offered in my college class in Sustainable Studies but I have chucked it, because it was not really taking hold here in the US. Also because I am more pragmatic and into rolling up my sleeves and doing rather than just talking and navel gazing. I just love being in nature and tending my food forests.

Hi C, you can now get help with the emotional part of forming intentional communities from the folks who are running the intentional community directory. They offer consultation services. There are free and cheap podcasts on how to do it. I also studied intentional communities, and I remain very much interested in starting or joining one. One thing that was apparent to me is that the successful ones absolutely needed to have a product that they could market to the outside community. The successful ones produced something and remained after decades. Usually these are agriculturally based products, but sometimes people within the communities manufacture something, usually a craft. The Amish in Pennsylvania are an intentional community.
I agree that land use regulations and tax-hungry political entities can really defeat the vision for an intentional community. Therefore, to do it right requires a lot of meetings with them and the surrounding neighbors to ensure that everyone is onboard with it before you build anything. Selection of land is important too. If it is in a flood zone or gets a ton of hurricanes or tornados, location may not be optimal for putting an intentional community there.
I have also thought it would be really cool if HOWA could find some land that they could purchase that would allow nomads to park there for a length of time. It could have things on site such as water source, laundry, a shop for mechanical repairs, and maybe a dump station. If people using it paid a nominal use fee that allowed HOWA to pay it off, it might be feasible.

 

[rruff]

I have also thought it would be really cool if HOWA could find some land that they could purchase that would allow nomads to park there for a length of time. It could have things on site such as water source, laundry, a shop for mechanical repairs, and maybe a dump station. If people using it paid a nominal use fee that allowed HOWA to pay it off, it might be feasible.

Sounds like an RV park... Could be a cool community though!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

There are a number of them already out there:
- Escapees runs a few
- I think Good Sam also
- private ones like Coyote Howls parks in Arizona
- I have stayed in a lot of small town run parks in the mid-west

 

[Ripper238]

You think they'll let you form a community on the rez?

Possibly, but hoping for one better. To be part of them, uphold there traditions and have the benefit of there protections.

 

[GoingMobile]

yes, i have a nice Intentional Communities directory and once we get going i plan on visiting a few. but to get back to the $700 part of this thread, i know i couldn't live on that much! i'm trying my best to get absolutely debt free (and get healthier!) by 2028 or i will NOT be able to make it on the measly $1650/mo i'll be due

Your Social Security is right where mine is at. If I wait 2 1/2 years, when I'll be 66 and 8 months. After working full time for 40 years. At least it has a small cost of living adjustment each year, something my current employer doesn't believe in.

$700. a month would take a lot of creativity and compromise for me to do without going outside of the laws and regulations in place. I've been a bit disturbed by all of the ads I get on social media for the part of Medicare that you need to get through insurance companies as well as annuities. . Insurance Companies are profit driven betting propositions. Like Las Vegas, the house always wins in the end.

There are many Intentional Communities in the history of the development of California where I am from. Very few have lasted. It seems the ones who have have used a religious basis of unifying members, which I think the tax status is a big factor in keeping the wolf from the door. Its an appealing idea for me, the pooling of resources, efforts, etc. so no one person feels all of the stress, especially financial of being a single individual in such a Darwinian Capitalist environment.

I often wonder if there are possibilities of creating lobbying groups for retired people who live in vehicles, maybe even joining with an existing organization such as AARP. If we could take politicians golfing at exotic locations and buy them gold plated toilets for their yachts perhaps they would accept we should have some rights. The system we have is F'ed up in many ways, but its the system we need to work within for the forseeable future. Seems what power we have as "consumers" could be a resource. Except we don't buy a lot because we're trying to figure out how to live on $700. a month.

 

[WanderingRose]

Just want to say, about Social Security, that delaying taking it is not a guarantee you will live to receive it.

My husband died a month after his 65th birthday.

We started drawing our SS when we were 62, after much thought and talking with many others.

We had both worked since we were 15.