DYI -Heat solution

[wanderinglaurence]

I'm planning build. Many CRVLers use diesel heater. What do y'all think about using a Cubic Mini Wood Stove instead? First of all is it allowed in a camper in AZ?

Thanks

 

[Uncle Todo]

I've come across a few vans online that have some little wood stoves in em.
Plus it says right on their website, ideal for RV's, boats, etc.
https://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/
You probably know, but you'll need a stove pipe.

I like the idea and wouldn't mind going with one but it doesn't really play out with how I envision my build turning out.

As far as being allowed in AZ, I have no idea but would suspect that there may not be any regulations around a wood stove in a vehicle.

 

[highdesertranger]

I was planning on a woodstove heater but decided against it.

The biggest problem is burn bans, the stove would be unusable for a good part of the year.

The next problem is firewood and transporting it. You can't transport firewood from one area to the next. That means you must buy local which means it's usually expensive and those bundles of wood they sell at the store is junk wood. Remember collecting stuff to burn is illegal in many areas, the whole area around Quartzsite and in and around the LTVA's is off limits to collecting firewood.

So because of the above and just the hassle, A wood stove is a lot of work. I decided against it. I wouldn't use on of those chinese knockoff diesel heaters if someone gave me one. So I bought a Propex vented propane heater.

Highdesertranger

 

[bullfrog]

I also have looked at them as there are not a lot of small heater alternatives that offer dry heat I can afford. I like some I have seen that use a two layer pipe and therefore have one hole for a chimney and a fresh air intake. I considered altering one to use a propane burner out of a grill to make it cleaner and enable me to use it more often. Hopefully someone will manufacture one soon so I don't have to experiment!

 

[PeterPiper]

I'm planning build. Many CRVLers use diesel heater. What do y'all think about using a Cubic Mini Wood Stove instead? First of all is it allowed in a camper in AZ?

Thanks

The US Consumer Products Safety Commission in 2011 offered the following......
https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/pd...nsumerProducts2011AnnualEstimatesSept2014.pdf


Heating Systems: • Of the estimated 49 Heating systems-related fatalities in 2011, 69 percent (34 deaths) involved gas heating equipment. Natural gas heating equipment accounted for 21 percent (7 deaths) of all fuel types of gas heating system-related fatalities; liquefied petroleum (LP or propane) gas heating accounted for 44 percent (15 deaths); and an additional 35 percent (12 deaths) were identified as unspecified gas heating. Oil-(2 deaths) and kerosene-fueled (2 deaths) heating systems accounted for a combined total of 12 percent ofheating system fatalities. Coal-(3 deaths) and wood-fueled (1 death) heating systems accounted for a combined total of9 percent. Five additional fatalities (11 percent) were associated with heating systems, where the fuel type could not be ascertained from CPSC records.


There was also an estimated two deaths ( 4% of heating system-related deaths) associated with a kerosene-burning heater. There were an estimated three deaths associated with coal-fueled heating systems (6% ofheating system-related deaths) and one death associated with a wood-fueled heating system (2% ofheating system-related deaths). In 2011, there were no reported diesel-fueled heating system fatalities.
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So apparently, propane accounted for a disproportionate number of deaths.

I use the "cheap Chinese" diesel heaters exclusively and I love them.  They are designed exactly after German models with decades of track record.   I just wish they were made in the USA even for a bit more.
Diesel heaters have been in use for decades and appear to be the number one safest option among Carbon Monoxide Deaths Associated with the Use of Consumer Products

I agree....when installed correctly.

I know HDR will pound me for this  

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

The US Consumer Products Safety Commission in 2011 offered the following......
 . . .
So apparently, propane accounted for a disproportionate number of deaths.
 . . .
Diesel heaters have been in use for decades and appear to be the number one safest option among Carbon Monoxide Deaths Associated with the Use of Consumer Products

Those statistics are meaningless without context.  Almost all of the low to mid priced RVs being produced in this country come with propane heaters if they come with heaters.  Diesel heaters are still a very small niche in the US RV market.

You cannot draw the conclusions you did from the data presented.

 

[PeterPiper]

Those statistics are meaningless without context.  Almost all of the low to mid priced RVs being produced in this country come with propane heaters if they come with heaters.  Diesel heaters are still a very small niche in the US RV market.

You cannot draw the conclusions you did from the data presented.

I didn't....the Federal Agency cited did. I just copied and pasted it and echoed what they posted.  The conclusion seems to fit what was actually posted by the Federal Agency.   Feel free to add your context.

But I do agree that LP is the most common source of heating and cooking fuel for RV's still.   But only for cooking convenience.

Not sure why more haven't switched to diesel heaters, especially those already running on diesel for the engine.  maybe because German Diesel heaters would reduce profits.

I suspect is mostly related to the convenience of LP gas for cooking and hot water more than anything else.  My opinion...of course.
Because of those two is why I think propane continues to be used for heaters as well.

 

[maki2]

The RV industry in the USA uses propane because with one fuel source to install it can power the cooking stove, hot water heater, furnace, refrigerator and in some cases also the generator. At one point in time in RV history the lighting was also fueled by propane.

It makes sense for the RV industry to continue using propane as the primary fuel system for appliances. But more people are beginning to requset larger solar powered systems so the can have AC and microwaves as well as fridges running on it. It is possible that water heaters and furnaces as well as cooktops will someday get switched over to diesel fuel as a standard in the larger diesel powered RVs. They already use a lot of diesel fueled furnaces, hot water heaters and even some cooking appliances for oven and ranges in the yatching world.

 

[highdesertranger]

Well in 2011 when that study was done there weren't any cheap chinese knock offs on the market. they didn't steal, I mean hit the market until about 5 years ago. For me it was a no brainer, do I want to give the chinese communist party money or a company in England. simple as that. Highdesertranger

 

[WanderingRose]

Altho I am a die hard, wood stove devotee, it would be difficult to maintain one in a vehicle that moved around, for all the reasons stated.

They are a powerful and comforting heat source, but put out a tremendous of heat that might overwhelm a van.

They are also dirty, ashes need to be emptied and into a metal container if they contain any embers.

That said, I have one in my little sticks and bricks, and love it.

 

[PeterPiper]

Well in 2011 when that study was done there weren't any cheap chinese knock offs on the market.  they didn't steal,  I mean hit the market until about 5 years ago.  For me it was a no brainer, do I want to give the chinese communist party money or a company in England.  simple as that.  Highdesertranger

You have absolutely no argument from me on that.

Like I keep saying....the USA really  needs to bring back manufacturing asap.

I will say that it seems to me that chinese prices are no longer the amazing deal they once were.
In fact, on many things I'm seeing what I would call blatant price gouging.
Purely my observation and opinion.

Maybe they are reaching a plateau where the cheap labor once available is demanding higher wages and forced labor is under international pressure?
I am not sure but it does seem chinese goods are escalating in price rapidly.

 

[66788]

I didn't....the Federal Agency cited did. I just copied and pasted it and echoed what they posted.  The conclusion seems to fit what was actually posted by the Federal Agency.   Feel free to add your context.

But I do agree that LP is the most common source of heating and cooking fuel for RV's still.   But only for cooking convenience.

Not sure why more haven't switched to diesel heaters, especially those already running on diesel for the engine.  maybe because German Diesel heaters would reduce profits.

I suspect is mostly related to the convenience of LP gas for cooking and hot water more than anything else.  My opinion...of course.
Because of those two is why I think propane continues to be used for heaters as well.

I have a diesel RV and would never use a diesel heater, especially a Chinese diesel heater for many reasons:

1.  China makes products that most people think are "good enough".   Fact is they more often than not are made to a price point and may work for a short while, but usually not 100%.   The materials are often substandard to reach the price point.

2.  Diesel stinks and diesel exhaust stinks.  I don't care to smell it on start up or shut down of the heater system.  God forbid a diesel spill stinking up your rig for days.

3.  Chinese diesel heaters have incomplete and dirty combustion.   They require regular disassembly and cleaning.

4.  The ticking of the fuel pump sounds like the crocodile in Peter Pan, the one that swallowed the alarm clock.

5.  The diesel glow plug takes up to 8 amps of 12vdc, and does so during each startup cycle.

6.  I don't want a heater in my rig that has a plastic case.

What do I use?   I have a Propex HS2800 in my 26 foot step van and it has run flawlessly for more than 3 years, even in the Pacific  NW  on nights down to 5 degrees Fahrenheit.   On a typical 12 degree night I can set the thermostat at 66 degrees  Fahrenheit and maybe burn a pound of propane, about 50 cents at local propane prices.   The fan uses 1.9 amps when running.  It comes in a metal enclosure and has 9 different safety systems built in.  It does not require constant cleaning as propane burns clean.  

If you enjoy your diesel heater, fine.  I know I bought a quality product that will give years of trouble free service.  To me I believe in the old saying "You get what you pay for.   "I would use my Wave 3 before I'd use a Chinese diesel heater.

In all fairness the German heaters are probably built better, but suffer from many of the problems set forth above.

 

[PeterPiper]

What about moisture buildup?  Do you not have that?
Isn't it required to open a window during use ?  Oxygen depletion due to open flame.

The biggest complaint most people who use propane heaters have is lots of moisture.

Have they found a way around that?
I'm not that familiar with them.  Maybe they have closed system propane heaters that avoid all that?

The other variable is fuel costs.
A 5000 btu diesel heater costs about $1.00 to heat a 300sq ft space overnight....35F, reasonably good insulation.

Propane is considerably more expensive is my understanding.  No?

If propane was a better option, I'd definitely use it.
I just can't find anything positive about it.

 

[bullfrog]

When it is a vented heater it draws in and burns air from outside in a metal box over which a fan usually blows the circulated inside air. No combustion byproducts enter the interior space as the exhaust is piped from the combustion chamber directly outside. How well you are insulated and how much moisture you create determines how much condensation forms, which is much less than say a nonvented Buddy heater with which water vapor is released by the chemical reaction caused when propane is burned.

 

[PeterPiper]

That sounds much better than a Buddy Heater.   I could go for that.

What about fuel costs?  A 20lb tank is about $20 to fill.

How long will that last in a 20ft RV in 35F weather?

 

[bullfrog]

It all depends on the size and temps and your preferences as well as how tight your RV is built. Good ones are expensive to purchase which is why many choose something like the Buddy heater. If you are talking a day time high of 35 degrees probably 3 t0 5 days on a tank as a guess, again it depends on how much you run it. It also requires 12 volt power as well for the fan. Several members have them and a search should bring up several threads.

 

[highdesertranger]

I also have a Propex 2800.

Yes it is a vented heater.
It draws air for the combustion from outside the vehicle and exhaust is also vented outside.
The air that is heated is drawn form inside the vehicle and released into the vehicle.
So two totally different air systems. No CO and no water vapor issues
They are very clean
They are very quite, no fuel pump
very low power use
very low propane use

Last time I bought propane was in Arizona about 2 months ago and it was 2.30 per gallon so a 20lb bottle would be just over 11 bucks to fill. I also use propane for cooking and heating water so having a propane heater just made sense.

Oh I forgot both of my vehicles are diesel. Diesel fuel is considerably higher per gallon but it does have more BTU's. But do I want a diesel heater? NO, And I especially don't want one that it's main objective is to be cheap in price.

Highdesertranger

 

[travelaround]

I bought one of those Cubic Mini woodstoves for my daughter's skoolie. They used it while the bus was stationary in North Idaho, and it worked fine for them. Unfortunately they removed it from the bus and put it in their cabin here... and it burned in the forest fire. Oh, they found it in the ashes, but it was no longer usable.

I can't imagine putting one in my van, though I've got some decisions to make about fuel and heating. My preference is electric heat. I really don't like the idea of carrying any kind of propane or diesel with me. Probably the best solution is to go south for the winter.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I have a Dickenson vented propane heater in my kurbmaster, no moisture at all, it can run with or without fan so no need for power, it burns 4bls in 28 hrs, or 1bls in 7 hrs at around freezing. I had a Dickenson deisel heater on a sailboat, it was much cheaper to run, it did smell a little on lighting, I don’t think it had a fan, worked well on 31 ft boat in freezing weather. Gravity fed so no pumps or other draw. I have, not sure of make but it is a vented propane heater in my Dodge caravan camper. This one is thermostatically controlled has a fan, so draws. Have hardly used it so unsure of consumption, also no moisture works great at below freezing. I would like to install a wood heater as well in the kurbmaster and likely will one of these days if I can figure out a spot for it. I like the cubic mini. I think the stats presented are due to most heaters in rv’s and boats now, are propane. The advantage with propane it heats up fast and is clean.

 

[hugemoth]

I bought a Chinese diesel heater with the intention of trying it in my little camper. I temporarily installed it in my house for testing and decided it wouldn't work in the camper. The reasons are way too much heat even on low, long heat up routine that isn't good for a quick morning on-off to take the chill off, reliability issues when only used on low setting or for short periods of time (carbon build up).

It's wonderful in the house. Lots of dry heat. Stingy on fuel and electricity. I love it and think it would be a good choice for a larger RV in a cold climate where you want to keep warm 24 hours per day.

There are a couple very informative channels on YouTube. David McLuckie and John McK 47. Everything you need to know about diesel heaters.