Deciding Between These Cargo Vans...

[BroccoliVan]

I'm trying to decide on which cargo van to eventually get. I really value being able to stand up in the van because I would be spending a lot of time inside it for computer work, cooking, etc + additional cupboard space.

I've narrowed it down to:

• Chevy Express 2500 (Non-Extended) (gas) + Probably getting a 25-30" fiberglass top
• Ram Promaster 2500 159" WB High Roof (gas)
• Ford Transit High Roof (gas)

Most people seem to recommend shying away from the sprinter-styled promaster and transit in favor of a chevy express for cost effectiveness. I know Bob has a video where he says to just get the chevy van and then throw a 25-30" hightop on it for the 3-5 grand extra, and it will still be cheaper. I've heard this a lot from other people online too.

But when I look online locally, I notice a 2016 Promaster with <30,000 km's goes for around 33k (CAD) and a 2016 chevy express also <30,000 km's goes for around 27k (CAD). New, the starting MSRP on a Promaster High Roof is about 38k (CAD) and the chevy express is about 30k (CAD).

Considering a fiberglass high top is around 3-5k USD, when you factor that in it appears both vehicles are really at about the same price. I know the Transit is more expensive than the promaster, but I actually prefer the promaster because it has a slightly higher floor-to-roof cargo area at 76" height, I believe (I'm 5'11.5, and with insulation + ceiling + flooring the extra few 4" over the transit is probably required for me to completely stand upright).

So, anyway, why are people saying the Express + high top is a (much) cheaper option if it isn't? What am I missing here? Is it that the express starts to become much cheaper when you hit over 50,000 mile compared the Promaster of similar mileage (because I'm really not noticing that either)?

 

[Almost There]

The immediate problem is that you're comparing US economies of purchasing with Canadian economies!

As a fellow Canadian you can throw all that right out the window - pricing in Canada has absolutely nothing in common with US prices.

Unless you're extremely determined to buy new or almost new, I'd suggest going back a few years and being patient. The problem with finding a low mileage Chevy/GMC van is that most are bought new by business and used until they hit the point of expensive repairs. That said, low mileage cargo/passenger vans DO exist but they take time and a wider range of searching to find. Mine took me 6 months of diligent searching and being willing to go hours away to view. I lucked out and found one with the high top already installed but I was prepared to head south of the border to have a high top installed if needed.

Also take in to consideration ongoing repair issues with each of the vehicles. Purchasing is only the beginning of the cost process.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Just to throw out another possibility. We have a Nissan NV 3500 hightop. There are older ones that are quite reasonable.

There are several caveats, though. The cargo area is comparatively small (10"). The mileage sucks. But, we didn't want to buy a hightop $$Mercedes$$, Fiat or a Ford. And we've had several Nissans and have been very happy with them. Coupled with the 5 year, 100,000 mile warranty and some other details, the positives outweighed the negatives.

Enter our fugly, pelican-resembling appearance after we get through with it.

(Fugly: f*****g ugly)

 

[closeanuf]

Another thing to consider is the fact that the Promaster doesn't have the history the Chevy/GMC vans have.

 

[LeeRevell]

Just to throw out another possibility. We have a Nissan NV 3500 hightop. There are older ones that are quite reasonable.

There are several caveats, though. The cargo area is comparatively small (10"). The mileage sucks. But, we didn't want to buy a hightop $$Mercedes$$, Fiat or a Ford. And we've had several Nissans and have been very happy with them. Coupled with the 5 year, 100,000 mile warranty and some other details, the positives outweighed the negatives.

Ten inches...? I assume you meant ten feet. What is the real world floor to ceiling height in the Nissan Hightop? As I stand 6' 4" tall, I like a really tall vehicle, but they are very scarce. Bed lengths are challenging too.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Nissan started making the big NV cargo vans in 2012, so there are older ones of there. Sorry, yes 10'. But 8" ground clearance, which is good enough for us. We have a full size bed in there and have enough floor space for the both of us to stand up and get dressed at the same time. I grew up on boats and don't mind close quarters. The bed is very high. I'm 5'8" and need a step stool to crawl in it. The base of the bed is 6' above the ground. The walls are almost vertical, so we have 14" deep cabinets mounted on each sidewall over the bed and have it arranged so that we can still sit up to work on computers, play scrabble, read the paper, etc. Having grown up on boats, I know how to utilize every cubic centimeter. This will be our home for years, space is at a premium. We have a multi-use galley sink cabinet with a 16"x18"x10" deep sink. And a ceiling - mounted TV. And the built-in honking big fridge. We also have a niche for the shotgun and a handgun safe.

6'3" is the headroom without any insulation added. We put in as much insulation as we could, but still permitting my hub (5'11") and 6' son to stand up straight, just brushing the top of the head.

Yeah, we're very pleased with it. And not very modest on how we've set it up. Of course, we'd like to have more room, but everything in life is a compromise.
Ted

 

[DrJean]

I have the 2017 HR Transit and the beginning height inside was 6'8...  I have since installed a raised bed board and I can walk under it at 5'8' (me)....   still haven't put a headliner in, but really don't suppose going below the roof ribbing.  Plenty of space for a 6 footer!

I think it depends upon the year... while they've made them in the UK competing with Sprinter, only being imported in USA since 2014... with improvements each year...  go to the fordtransitusaforum.com website and read to your heart's content about modifications and builds.

As for gas...  I averaged very well going 80 across west Texas out to the RTR   and now around town I'm averaging 17.4 mpg.  (HR LWB EL)

 

[BroccoliVan]

The immediate problem is that you're comparing US economies of purchasing with Canadian economies!

As a fellow Canadian you can throw all that right out the window - pricing in Canada has absolutely nothing in common with US prices.

Also take in to consideration ongoing repair issues with each of the vehicles. Purchasing is only the beginning of the cost process.

Unfortunately, I have no experience when it comes to vehicle repairs or even what to look for when buying one to determine whether its a lemon or not. I'd hate to get a vehicle only to have to pay double or triple its price in mechanic fees right after, because I can't repair simple things.

For this reason, I assumed relatively new was probably the way to go. But, I'm not sure.

 

[DrJean]

I bought new for same reasons, plus, being female, the mechanics assume I know nothing and try to pull fast ones on me all the time. I bought the complete warranty and maintenance package for 8 years so if they try anything, I just say, sure, it's covered go for it... they'll get no more money from me (but yes, will waste my time waiting.)

A new basic Transit in the US can be had for 31k starting.... depends upon height, length, etc options that will go up from there. You can go to the ford website and "create" your van from the buffet and see what each requires and what it costs... I did that countless times for nearly 2 years before deciding. I totally enjoy my Transit (Mulligan).

 

[user 37446]

One other thing to consider, fellow Canuck, is licensing and import duties if bought down south.  I was tempted when our dollar was at par as there were more deals down there... 
now however, not so good.

I'm with you on a Transit style, I'd go Ford if I chose due to dealer servicing. The promaster forums have some decidedly unhappy owners due to parts problems and overall Fiat issues...

 

[deadwood]

I think when buying a van you have to get what works for you. And not only when it comes to the actual van. It also comes down to economics. What kind of van can you afford. New vans are more expensive. Older vans have more maintenance. I went with a new HR Transit. I liked that I could order exactly what I wanted from Ford. I plan to use it for the next 20 years I hope. So in 20 years I'll have a 20 year old van. If I went with a 20 year old van now and outfitted it the way I want. In 20 years I'll end up with a 40 year old van. So for me it was worth the extra expense now to get what I'll be able to use for a very long time.

 

[user 37446]

News flash:
Got a ride tonight in a supershuttle E350 Transit mid roof.  Impressions:
Front legroom (passenger bucket seat) is noticeably cramped.  I asked the driver about it compared with the old Econolines and she said that there were several fewer inches of legroom.

I felt every concrete expansion joint and bump, so there's certainly no improvement in ride even with the longer wheelbase.

The driver said that "when they are running, they run well, but that's when they are running". Funny, I thought the blue oval F stood for Ford, not Fiat!
As we were driving I glanced over at the dash instruments, sure enough the check engine light was on...

The seat was comfortable and. bolstered well but the legroom made it uncomfortable and I'm only 5'7".

The windshield was huge compared to the Econoline, and they were full sized.  Mirrors were large and because it was a passenger van there were no blind spots.

Headroom was great but she said it really catches the wind.

The side sliding door was huge!  That would cost a lot of issuable space.

The pass and drivers windows are "odd" as far as there is a big, really big non-opening vent and a skinny, angled, tall, about 16" wide by 34-36" tall opening glass that's really different.

I'm typing as we drive, man it's bumpy!

I was kinda positive about these before this ride...not anymore. ??

 

[makenmend]

I researched these vans for a couple of years, I ruled out the Sprinter because of initial cost, plus cost and availability of service for diesel. I did get to spend some time driving the Sprinter and found it to be very easy for it's size, but as i said the cost.
The Dodge Promaster and Transit became available in the USA late 2014, but have been in Europe for much longer, I'm from England originally and visit my folks there often so got to see and talk with some owners whilst there. When they did make it to the States I test drove both, this left me with the opinion that my preference was for the Ford purely on driving, the lack of adjustment on the Dodge steering was the biggest thing, then the live rear axle ground clearance.
I didn't want to buy new so waited till pre owned low mileage came available, so any teething problems were sorted out but still had warranty for a decent period. The end result, I purchased a 2015 Ford Transit 12 seat passenger van T350 148'' w/b  XLT with 22,673 miles for a little over $23k out the door, factory warranty till 36 K plus 12 months bumper to bumper from seller.
Remove all rear seats/rails ( sold for $600 ) and did my own conversion, at 40k now, no problems to date, still enjoy driving it.

MM                         

 

[makenmend]

twih, on the harsh ride, the factory tire pressure is for fully loaded van. reducing a few psi really helps, after I removed 10 passenger seats/rails about 1,00 lbs it improved significantly. Now with full insulation and furniture IMO it ride as quietly/comfortable as my Chevy Avalanche.

MM

 

[itchyfeetsyndrome]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]BroccoliVan said, one could add a "25-30" hightop on it for the 3-5 grand extra,"' [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Is that an overall concrete figure, or an estimate on a dealership priced new parts, new vehicle installed? [/font]

 

[user 37446]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]BroccoliVan said, one could add a "25-30" hightop on it for the 3-5 grand extra,"' [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Is that an overall concrete figure, or an estimate on a dealership priced new parts, new vehicle installed? [/font]

That figure of "3-5 grand" is based on what other forum members have either paid or priced out.  I believe that the company "Fiberine" could give you a price...

Fiberine.com

"[font=TimesNewRomanPS-BoldMT, 'Times New Roman', serif]For over 30 years, FIBERINE has been THE Low Price and High Quality leader in Fiberglass Manufacturing. We Specialize in manufacturing fiberglass parts and molding to client specifications. Our trademark designed Fiberglass Van Tops are seen across our great nation and around the world! We carry an extensive array of Van Tops (aka High Tops) and Running Boards to fit ALL major Van and Truck lines, including Mini Vans. With any of our VAN TOPS, you can create a LUXURY VAN, CAMPER VAN, WHEELCHAIR HANDICAP ACCESSIBLE VAN, DOG GROOMING VAN, CARGO VAN, ICE CREAM VAN. With the additional headspace our VAN TOPS give, you now have unlimited custom possibilities for your van."[/font]

 

[user 37446]

twih, on the harsh ride, the factory tire pressure is for fully loaded van. reducing a few psi really helps, after I removed 10 passenger seats/rails about 1,00 lbs it improved significantly. Now with full insulation and furniture IMO it ride as quietly/comfortable as my Chevy Avalanche.

MM

Quite true, SS probably has the tires pumped up for possible full passenger loads of 8 - 10 people plus cargo.  That's a good ton or more.  The one I was in had a wheelchair lift as well.
Your pictures looked great as far as the buildout.

 

[BroccoliVan]

I researched these vans for a couple of years, I ruled out the Sprinter because of initial cost, plus cost and availability of service for diesel. I did get to spend some time driving the Sprinter and found it to be very easy for it's size, but as i said the cost.
The Dodge Promaster and Transit became available in the USA late 2014, but have been in Europe for much longer, I'm from England originally and visit my folks there often so got to see and talk with some owners whilst there. When they did make it to the States I test drove both, this left me with the opinion that my preference was for the Ford purely on driving, the lack of adjustment on the Dodge steering was the biggest thing, then the live rear axle ground clearance.
I didn't want to buy new so waited till pre owned low mileage came available, so any teething problems were sorted out but still had warranty for a decent period. The end result, I purchased a 2015 Ford Transit 12 seat passenger van T350 148'' w/b  XLT with 22,673 miles for a little over $23k out the door, factory warranty till 36 K plus 12 months bumper to bumper from seller.
Remove all rear seats/rails ( sold for $600 ) and did my own conversion, at 40k now, no problems to date, still enjoy driving it.

MM                         

That's really nice van. At 40k though I'd have to be sure I would enjoy living in it for at least 4-5 years to justify that cost, since it would be about 3 years of apartment rent. And when you're living in it that long, you really need comfort inside the van or a good place to setup camp and work, cook, and entertain yourself outside. IMO 4-5 years of endless travel in a cramped van is unsustainable, at least for me.

I'm gonna have to burn more money on rent and probably think about this for a while. After watching a guy living out of his half truck-half trailer rv (not sure what they're specifically called) for significantly less money, had full standing height and a full livable space, plus was able to stealth as good as any van, it's a tough choice to pay that much money for more vertical space without gaining much horizontal space.

 

[John61CT]

half truck-half trailer rv (not sure what they're specifically called) for significantly less money, had full standing height and a full livable space, plus was able to stealth as good as any van

Links, pics?

 

[mayble]

I waffled over the ProMaster vs Transit for awhile but decided the RWD Transit would be better for towing than the FWD ProMaster.