dealership ripeoff

[travlinman and wife]

engine light   came on . checked codes said it was a vacuum  leak I could not find it so I took it to dealer to be checked out.  report said hose from charcoal canister to vent valve had ben chewed through ( groundhog)  cost to repair $406.25. I said no thank you. stooped at parts store and picked up valve $32.00.  came home removed 12in hose removed ends from hose took a peace of hose I had on hand made a hose and replaced. and by the way dealer only wanted $ 94.00 fore plastic  hose.

 

[rvpopeye]

A friend calls them stealerships

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Although I also find dealership service prices to be on the high side and avoid them whenever possible, owning a dealership comes with some hefty monthly bills and paying for it has to come from somewhere. Building rent or mortgage, utilities, payroll, insurance, taxes, inventory, advertising, etc etc etc.
The dealerships in my area are mostly megaships now, absolutely huge. No idea what it costs to run them, but I know I would't want the responsibility. I know one of the guy's (not personally) that owns about ten dealerships through an old employer (he married his cousin) and has been to his home for holidays/cookouts, etc and describes a home and lifestyle experienced by few. This same dealership owner started with a single used car lot back in the late 60's and built his car empire though his own blood, sweat, and tears and thus it's hard to have anything but respect for him.

 

[speedhighway46]

I believe the broadening trend in dealerships is to pay the service writers a commission on the work that comes in. They more they talk you into expensive repairs the more money they make. They are no longer "customer service representatives."

In fact, I would suspect that the maintenance/repair operations of a dealership is the big money maker, as opposed to the old days when it was car sales which was the revenue generator.

Around West Michigan going shop rates at dealerships is now $100 - $110 per hour.

 

[Matlock]

engine light   came on . checked codes said it was a vacuum  leak I could not find it so I took it to dealer to be checked out.  report said hose from charcoal canister to vent valve had ben chewed through ( groundhog)  cost to repair $406.25. I said no thank you.

I agree with your process to get the best outcome.

Once upon a time dealerships charged from a flat-rate labor hour book. Almost every repair was assigned a number of hours to R&R that part. Example; water pump replacement, 2.2 hrs. You were charged by your make, model and accessories based upon an industry standard of how long it took a competent mechanic to remove and replace that item including all the additional actions associated with that replacement. It was all in the book. The only difference from one dealer to the next was the per-hour cost that was usually tied to the dealers overhead and the cost of the parts.
I don't know if a standard rate "book" still exists anymore. Maybe, but I stay clear of Dealerships unless it's for an estimate and then I'll DIY or make use of small local repair mechanics. And as a rule, shop, shop, shop for the best service and parts price before I commit.

 

[ArtW]

Yep, the Mitchell Labor Guide is alive and well and in use at reputable service providers today, or still was when i was 'in the biz'
I still call them Stealerships, the parts are marked way up even from the inflated price the manufacturer charges the stealership, and the rate you pay for service, compared to the rate they pay the mechanics, is criminal, especially since many of them don't pay the mechanic 'on the flag' as they should

For those who aren't familiar with that term, being paid 'on the flag' means you get paid according to what the labor guide says the job takes, not how long you actually take doing it
This incentivised the tech to buy tools that make the job easier and quicker to do, AND to do the job right, since redoing a job you botched pays nothing

So for example, a 1998 Chevy Lumina shows 1 hour to R&R front brake pads, which means the consumer pays 100 for the labor
I was capable of doing the job in 10 minutes, so at $20 per 60 minutes, I would make like $3 and change, if I worked hourly, where I should have been paid $20 for the job according to Mitchell, and there you go, I get about 20% of what the customer paid, despite the fact that i supply the knowledge, the actual labor, and the vast majority of the tools, and if I'm hourly, I get paid 3%
customer and mechanic are both being screwed

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

In fact, I would suspect that the maintenance/repair operations of a dealership is the big money maker, as opposed to the old days when it was car sales which was the revenue generator.

They not only make most their money in the service department now, they rely on service money to stay in business.  Their next biggest money maker is financing and extended warranties. Followed by used vehicle sales.  Extended warranties, gap insurance, and other add ons are typically marked up 100%  Pay 2k for an extended warranty and they just make another 1k.  

The area they make the least....new car sales is where people haggle the most, go figure.  Then they make their big bucks haggle free from there.

 

[ZoNiE]

ERLH did spell it out pretty well. I have a small two person automation business and our insurance is $8K per year, and we have zero employees. we are all owners. The insurance companies jacked our rates 3X because we write code to control machines and if someone gets hurt, our code could be responsible regardless of how stupid the operator is.

Rent, Utilities, and the rest make up about 20% of our costs.

Dealerships need to turn more of a profit than the old days since most are part of large public companies which require shareholder return and growth. They also have to pay interest on unsold vehicles, so the service department is the honey pot for the money to do that.

The Flat rate book is alive and well and in use. A good mechanic can make 20 hrs or more of pay per day if they are paid by the book but do the work faster, and most do. I think this is a fair system, as it pays a fair wage for new mechanics, and as they get proficient, their skills determine their personal wealth growth. It also protects us from being quoted more hours than an average mechanic should take. If that newbie takes more than the book time, we still only get charged the book rate. Works both ways.

You would think the tool truck guys and the Mitchell's are in cahootz... :dodgy:

 

[ArtW]

Zonie said
The Flat rate book is alive and well and in use. A good mechanic can make 20 hrs or more of pay per day if they are paid by the book but do the work faster, and most do. I think this is a fair system, as it pays a fair wage for new mechanics, and as they get proficient, their skills determine their personal wealth growth. It also protects us from being quoted more hours than an average mechanic should take. If that newbie takes more than the book time, we still only get charged the book rate. Works both ways.


Absolutely correct, in the service departments that pay that way
'In my experience, not having worked at a dealership, but working alongside a fellow that did, before working at my shop, some shops do, and some shops don't, and I know of at least one dealership that pays their mechanics hourly, not by the book, the dealership HE worked at
He used to say he would work for $10 an hour if paid by the book
The general rule is, they go by the system that favors the shop
Shop gets a ton of business? pay by the hour, so the mechanics are turning in way more work than they're doing
Shop gets a slow trickle of work? pay 'on the flag' so you don't haven to pay the mechanic for the time he spends standing around doing nothing because you don't know how to generate business
Either way, the shop pays the least amount it can to the guy doing the work

It's just like the Taxi business
In Austin, where the Taxis spend a lot of time Idle, the driver pays lease for the cab, and keeps what he makes over lease and gas
In Las Vegas, where the Taxis are always busy, the driver pays the gas and splits the meter with the company
Each method benefits the company, not the employee, in it's respective environment
Maybe I'll got ask the guys at the local dealerships if they get payed flag hours or straight time

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

It's been interesting following this conversation.

I was the parts guy for a Chrysler dealership for a little less than a year back in the late 80s.

I distinctly remember the Chrysler factory rep telling me that all dealerships were owned by ex car salesmen, and if they had THEIR way, they wouldn't have parts departments or repair bays.  They only had them because the manufacturers REQUIRED it as a condition of being new car dealers.

Sounds like things have changed a lot since those days . . .

 

[Bdog1]

So how much did the identification of the issue cost at the dealership?


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[Gary68]

yes,using a dealership for routine maintenance/basic repairs with make you poor quick but there is a time and place as in my moms v6 camry timing belt needs changing, i could of done it,eventually,but it was best for all parties involve to take it to the guy who does toyota timing belts all day every day,well worth the money

the one awsome inch of work space provided had nothing to do with my decision :angel:

 

[ArtW]

Damned modern car engine bays *further muttering / hate speech*

 

[TrainChaser]

"... owning a dealership comes with some hefty monthly bills and paying for it has to come from somewhere..."

Just like every other business.

As Zonie said, large corporations "require shareholder return and growth".  And for most of them, that is their only concern.  The old mantra of providing quality products and good workmanship fell by the wayside long ago.

I used to know a guy who was a mechanic for a dealership in SoCal, and he explained how the company wanted them to operate regarding repairs:  No matter what the complaint was, they replaced items by rote, in a certain order, knowing that most of them weren't the cause of the problem.  Of course, the customer was charged for all of it.

The Les Schwab chain have a motto:  "If we can't guarantee it, we won't sell it."  It sounds good, but what it really means is that they will replace every single part connected to the repair, whether it needs replacing or not. 

For the truth of the matter, follow the money.

 

[travlinman and wife]

Bdog1 it cost me $119.00 to find out what the problem was. and the person that checked me in and out was nice and told me were the parts were located at on the van

 

[Bdog1]

I guess an hour checkout fee is okay. Glad it's all fixed now.


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[GypsyDogs]

Hubby got 'stolen' for a spark plug change and Fuel Inj cleaning at $950...

*looks askance at hubby and bill...*

 

[ArtW]

anyone who uses quality gasoline should never need an injector cleaning
Now if you buy Bob's or Pedro's gas, mebbe so

 

[akrvbob]

Hubby got 'stolen' for a spark plug change and Fuel Inj cleaning at $950...  

*looks askance at hubby and bill...*

If you have a 1999-2008 Ford, spark plugs are a nightmare. Thank your great Ford Engineers for that.

 

[SternWake]

anyone who uses quality gasoline should never need an injector cleaning
Now if you buy Bob's or Pedro's gas, mebbe so

perhaps a mechanical injector cleaning.

Some fuel system cleaners like Techron and Gumout regane  and redline SL-1 have Poly Ether Amine, which claim to clean fuel systems and combustion chamber deposits  and intake valves on non direct injected engines without leaving any deposits of its own, and also have some lubricity for fuel pumps and such.

I'll run a PEA based cleaner through my tank once a year.  Usually Gumeout Regane for less than 5$ at wally world.  It must say Regane.  PEA has a fishy smell.
   In my Sister's 2005 honda CRV one bottle of redline  SL-1 eliminated 90% of a weird vibration at Idle within 1/4 tank of gas of around town short trip driving. 

Does using top tier fuels eliminate the need for using PEA based cleaners?

Well I tend to find bob or Pedro's budget gas more palatable to my wallet, but the 5 dollars I spend on PEA based fuel system cleaners eats up some of that savings.

Kind of funny seeing the same fuel truck pull out from a Chevron top tier fuel station and go deliver some fuel to Pedros station at 20 cents cheaper a gallon right across the street.

Whether there are different compartments in the fuel truck or they dump in some cleaners as the fuel truck is offloading are both unknowns, to me.

Me thinks a lot of top tier fuels are no different than those that do not make the top tier list.  Opinion.