Camper Van or Real Class B?

[HeadinWest]

Hello all, my first post. I've been reading the forums for months and there is some great info here!

My decision that I need to make(within days) is:

Option #1:

There is a camper van available 1999 Chevy Coachman with 90K miles for $7K.
I drove it and it seems to run great, steering is tight, tires good, no rust, shifts fine. The only problems i found were the drivers side window needs repair(loose). When tapping the button to roll the window up then down you can see the window is rocking back and forth. Might be a couple hundred bucks for repair? Also the bed has been re-done. It appears they made their own wood frame and it is a pain to put up and down. I needed to go outside, open the back door to get the bed folded down properly. I'm assuming at one time this was an automatic bed with the push of a button? When the bed is down you can't open the fridge either so this needs to be done daily. Very small interior but does have the high top with the upper storage shelves and more storage above the driver and passenger seats where the old tv was. It has a frig and hot or cold running water. Not sure how that works but they say it does. Did not test it though. Need to add solar, batteries charger,inverter.

Option #2

There are some older roadtreks out there, for about $20K I can get a 1999 with mileage about the same(100K) but this severly drains my savings but would be much more comfortable. I'm assuming the mileage would be less also. Need to add solar, batteries charger,inverter on this one too.

I'm hoping to get the solar system for under $2K.

So, the decision is either try to tough it out in the camper van and have a little monetary cushion, or go with the Roadtrek. I could do a year or maybe 2 on the road easily with the savings I have left unless I have major problems with the Roadtrek(Repairs).

I am currently not working, too young to collect SS. I am heading west in search of work, and want to go with the RV life-style. The decision has been made to live in the RV full-time. I only have until the end of the month to get out of where I am currently staying. This winter was brutal and I will never be this far north again when the snow starts to fly.

Currently in the process of getting rid of all my "stuff" and not planning on returning to this state any time soon.

BTW, I'm single, male, 50 years young, no medical conditions. I have also never been into camping, or RVing before, so this is all new to me.

 

[skydivevandweller]

I'm kind of in the same predicament. Though I'm deciding between a roadtrek and a sprinter chassis Winnebago.

I'm leaning more toward the roadtrek. It's a lot more stealthy but I'll have to get the battery bank and generator as well.

 

[Patrick46]

you know what you really need?? (and is by far the most practical and financially easiest to swallow???)

A Class 'C' Motorhome. They're everywhere for very easy money. You can get a relatively late model one with very low mileage for under $10K. If you're thinking about the gas use, then with the money you save you can get a smal car to tow behind it.

First...you're gonna be ALOT more comfortable when you find your new nesting spot, you're gonna get ALOT more for your money over a Class 'B' Campervan, and then you'll still have a small vehicle that gets good gas mileage for running around with. (A bumper mounted motorcycle is also a great alternative.)


Tell us more about yourself. Whaddaya do?? Hobbies?? Where are you thinking of heading to??

Welcome to the forum!!!


Patrick in Oregon

 

[akrvbob]

Patrick has a good idea, I'm a big fan of Class Cs towing an economy car. But, they are pretty limited in where you can take them so adventures are limited. It doesn't sound like you are an adventurous guy so no real loss.

But if you are forced to work in town in the future, stealth will become very important to you. I'd tend to go toward the stealthier choice rather than the more comfortable choice until your future is more certain.

For me it would be hard to pass up saving 13,000 dollars on the cheaper van for a little extra comfort. I'd have a mechanic look at it and grab it if it checked out.
Bob

 

[SoulRaven]

In the first place, most factory Class B's are never going to be as comfortable as a home made one which can be done very cheaply without sacrificing on comfort, but actually enhancing your comfort. A standard window van can be converted into a camper van very cheaply and easy too, and it can be customized to your own personal comfort level. I wouldn't trade my poor old 1986 Dodge for a brand new factory one, because mine is more comfortable, more reliable, and less to go wrong with it. It also drives every bit as good as a new one!

I sometimes park on city streets where motorhomes aren't allowed, so my camper van is preferable. If you're not planning on parking in places they're not allowed then get an OLD class C, like from the 70's. Many have very low miles, and were better built, and can be had for under $2k.

I am pretty much against having more than say $2500 in a camping vehicle. Let somebody else suffer all of the depreciation, and get one that has already hit the bottom of the depreciation scale. Many RV's from the 70's are still like new and have under 50k miles on them.

Solar panels are an added expense with very questionable return on your investment. Charge your house batteries while driving, and have either an AC/DC or straight 12v DC generator for much cheaper and have more reliable power. You're a fool to travel without a generator anyway, so I wouldn't even consider solar panels until I had lots of money to blow. Out of the numerous solar panel systems I've had, not a single one of them kept my batteries charged as advertised. The camping community thrived for many years without solar panels, and most still have chosen more reliable means of power.

Too many people get caught up in the trap that newer is better. Generally speaking newer means more cheaply built, and more useless garbage to break down. There's a reason there are so many 70's & early 80's motorhomes & vans still around, it's because they were built better, both house wise and vehicle wise.

Good Luck!

 

[HeadinWest]

Patrick46,
I haven't even looked at the prices of a class C. I will do that later this evening just to see what's out there.

Let's say I do find a permanent job somewhere, with a class C I need to stay at a CG and pay the fees. Even if I don't find a permanent job I need to do the same. My thoughts with the camper van or Roadtrek is the stealth capability, avoiding CG fees for the most part.

I guess I have a short term goal(3 months or so) which is to travel, boondock, and get used to the RV life to see if I can hack it. I'm heading to South Dakota first then turning South down into Colorado and then on to Austin TX. These are just places that I've always wanted to see but have never had the chance. From there I have no plans. I'll be looking for work all along the way, hopefully I won't find anything lol!

The object of the game at this point is to find a city/area/community/climate that I like and can also find work in. Once I find a job that I will be staying at, I agree, a class C and small car or a truck/TT would be perfect. I don't plan on getting an apartment or buying a house, been there done that too many times(3 houses), and I sold all my "stuff" anyway.

Hobbies: Selling my golf clubs, skis, ice fishing stuff, and hockey equipment. I might throw the baseball glove and shoes in the van. I still like playing softball and might get on a team when I land somewhere. The guitar is coming along for the ride too. I sold my acoustic and I'm taking the electric. It takes up less space and I plan on buying a very small amp and just using the headphones. Plugging the amp into the inverter and using headphones should not draw much power at all. If someone has any experience doing this let me know. Should help to pass the time. I figure I can pick away at the electric even inside the van and no-one but me will hear it.

Work: 2 yr technical degree(electronics) and 16 yrs at one of the big three. Programming, Test & Measurement, worked on the Formula 1 Race car for a couple years(Engine Control Module). That was pretty cool.

akrvbob,

You hit the nail on the head. I've never been the adventurous type, always taken the safest route available, and now it's time for a change. I've been thinking about this all winter and can't wait to get on the road. 13K extra and I get a tiny shower(but it's a shower!), larger holding tanks, a little extra space, inside cook-top, generator, as well as higher insurance/maintenance/fuel costs. If I knew what was going to happen with the job situation the decision would be easy, I'd go with the Roadtrek in a heartbeat.

skydivevandweller,

The sprinter chassis Winnebago is a bit much for me at this point(if I'm thinking of the right vehicle). They are definitely noticeable and city stealth would be tough I think. If I was retired and could stay away from the city for the most part then it would work. Not sure what your situation is. I'm looking for a 170 or 190 Roadtrek. I really wish I could afford 80-100K on a newer diesel Roadtrek, I'd be in RV heaven man!

 

[HeadinWest]

Off Grid 24/7,

I thought about buying a cargo van and doing some kind of conversion myself, the time for that has run out. I should have started months ago and I need to get out of here by the end of the month. Throwing a mattress and a cooler in the back and trying to do the build on the road might be a bit much just starting out.

My thoughts on the older vehicles(70s - 80s) are just the opposite of what you're saying. I'm trying to buy the newest vehicle that I can afford which looks to be a late 90s model. The one thing I want to avoid is breaking down, at least for the first few months Getting a grip on the RV Life-style is going to take a while as I've never tried this before.

I'm sure there are a lot of good older vehicles around, but I'm not sure I want to take a chance on a 30+ yr old vehicle. I don't have a problem with doing minor repairs(brakes, alternator, starters) at home, but doing it on the road seems like a whole different ball-game, so most likely I'd be paying someone else to do it.

I do plan on city stealth parking, I want to avoid it if I can but I'm sure there will be times where that is my only option for various reasons. It also seems like the 30+ year old vehicles would draw more attention than a newer looking vehicle.

Solar, first I need to get the van and see how much room I have for panels. If I have enough room on the roof I want 200W minimum panel(s). I'm thinking 2 6v golf cart batteries, mppt charger, and pure sine inverter. This along with charging while the van is running is hopefully gonna do it. I want to run the fridge 24/7, laptop, and the guitar amp as I already described in an earlier post and a few LED lights. Once again, I've done a lot of reading but have no actual experience with solar. I want to have the panels installed by someone who knows what they're doing and run the wires down inside for me, I'll install everything else. Then I guess you have to worry about theft of the panel(s).

I won't have a generator if I go with the camper van I was looking at. So you suggest spending the money on a generator instead of solar?

 

[BC Guy]

The Roadtrek will get better mileage than the van. I get 17.5 mpg in my 2004.

 

[SoulRaven]

For stealth city parking, a roadtrek or other factory camper van is going to attract attention. So will a cargo van. A window van would be your best choice for many reasons. You can always use limo tint on the back windows, and even block them if you desire, but they will give the illusion that nobody is trying to hide anything, and that will keep you out of trouble.

The best areas of cities to park are the lower to middle class areas. In these areas the older vans will blend in much better than newer ones.

In my experience, the newer a used vehicle is, the more likely it is a money pit, thus they are getting rid of it. With the older ones, they are just wanting something newer, even though there is little or nothing wrong with their old one.

Even though I haven't needed my generator much recently, I would definitely have a generator over solar panels any day of the week. Solar panels are targets for thieves, and are very suspicious looking if parked in a city. They'll hurt your gas mileage too.

Batteries are heavy, my single cheap recycled type battery will last for a week between charges, and is now 4-5 years old. I think I paid $20 for it. They key is to add a battery cut-off which the battery shop carried for under $20 that will not let the battery discharge below 11.8 volts. That saves your batteries. I have one on both my house battery & my starting battery. Between both batteries I can have power for about 2 weeks and still have plenty of power to start the van.

If you have 2-3 days, you can easily convert a window van into a very comfortable camper van. There's a guy I've seen more than once at van shows that can do it in just a few hours!
The trick is to treat your van like an empty house, and you just move your furniture in. All of the systems are portable and time proven. $200-$300 is all you need, and except for a few relatively simple DIY items, everything is store bought, and move in ready.

For city living, you want the same set-up as for off grid living, meaning that you never have to plug in to shore power. Most factory built units are designed to be parked where there is electricity available. A home built unit might not look as fancy, but can be a whole lot more comfortable and practical.

Good Luck!

---

The Roadtrek will get better mileage than the van. I get 17.5 mpg in my 2004.

I guess that under new math that my 18 mpg on a bad day, in a 1986 1 Ton Dodge Van with a 318 engine must be worse. And the up to 19.5 mpg I get on better days must be worse yet.

In my experience, the older the van, the better the MPG, and the better the reliability. In the 70's and 80's they were much more concerned with quality than they were with profit. By the 90's the focus shifted to profit, and quality went into the dumpster.

 

[MrNoodly]

The Roadtrek will get better mileage than the van. I get 17.5 mpg in my 2004.

I get the same mileage on my self-converted 2007 Chevy cargo van.

---

In the 70's and 80's they were much more concerned with quality than they were with profit. By the 90's the focus shifted to profit, and quality went into the dumpster.

Sorry, but that is total Luddite BS.

---

Throwing a mattress and a cooler in the back and trying to do the build on the road might be a bit much just starting out.

Actually, just throwing a mattress and a cooler (and a 5-gallon bucket) in a cargo van might be the way to start out.

You don't really know what you're going to actually need and what is a waste until you get out there. You don't even really know whether vandwelling is something you can hack, something you can enjoy. It might be a mistake to dump a lot of money into it up front.

I did the build-out at the beginning, but I did it with the frame of mind that I would be camping full time, not trying to build a micro apartment. It worked out, but I've also gotten rid of a lot of stuff I once though was essential, and bought only a handful of things I hadn't thought of beforehand. I've done some mods out in the boonies. Some hand tools and a cordless drill/wrench go a long way—as does assistance from other vandwellers and building-dwelling friends and relatives.

Each person has different standards of what's essential. I think we discover that after we've been out a while.

 

[SoulRaven]

<blockquote><cite><span> (Today 01:59 AM)</span>Off Grid 24/7 Wrote: <a rel="nofollow" href="https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Camper-Van-or-Real-Class-B?pid=88677#pid88677" class="quick_jump">&nbsp;</a></cite>In the 70's and 80's they were much more concerned with quality than they were with profit. By the 90's the focus shifted to profit, and quality went into the dumpster.</blockquote>
<br />

Sorry, but that is total Luddite BS.

So you believe that the newer vans are better built?

I would love to hear what you base your opinions on?

Just for the record, I do value your opinion, whether I choose to agree with it or not.

 

[MrNoodly]

American car makers have ALWAYS been profit motivated. Detroit was slow to upgrade their manufacturing because they though it would hurt profits. They believed they could keep cranking out mediocre product in the same old way forever. Just wrap a new body around decades-old engineering and the suckers would buy it up. Because what choice did they have? Expensive, temperamental Euro imports? Silly bug shaped VWs? And the too-late realization that their old business model wasn't going to work anymore drove the US car industry to bankruptcy.

You praise vehicles from the 70s and 80s, but that era produced some of the most embarrassingly awful vehicles ever to roll off an American assembly line. (Vega, Pinto, K-car, Pacer...) And if you ever come across confessions of assembly line workers from that time, it's a wonder the vehicles ran at all.

For every solid-running vehicle from that era you find today, there are millions that got sent to the scrapyard—not just because people wanted the new shiny model, but because they had turned to crap and cost too much to keep running. The ones you find today were the good exceptions. And they've had 30 or 40 years of previous owners fixing the bugs, of improving them.

 

[compassrose]

We started out fulltiming in a 22 ft (over all length) vintage Class C. We paid $2K for it. We bought the 1976 (or '78) back in 2006, made repairs to it and lived in it from 2006 - 2010 when we moved inthe the bus. My daughter moved into the Class C (with us) and is still in it. It is now falling apart due to no maintenance work being done on it (hard to do in a campground plus she works all the time). It has a huge 440 motor and gets 6-8 mpg on the interstate. I have had it up to 80mph before I slowed it down (trying to catch up with the bus when I got hung up in traffic lights on our trip out west). She's selling the Class C when we leave here and moving in with us until we build her skoolie conversion. One of her co-workers wants to take the RV section off and rebuild it. A Class C is simply a trailer stuck onto a van chassis. Out here in NM, they park in the parking lots and live in them fulltime. They don't bother with "stealth".

BTW, I live in a non-stealthy 40 ft turquoise coloured converted schoolbus that is parked in a private campground ($425/mo) with w/e/s/cable/wi-fi and a laundry and bathhouse (although I have those facilities in my bus). I also work full-time at a Home Depot. So you may want to disregard my post since we don't "van-dwell" or "stealth" nor do we intend to. I'm also biased. I think you should get a shorty school bus and convert it. They are built like tanks and can handle a lot of weight.

 

[DCosmc]

As you've probably read throughout the forum it all depends on your needs and likes.
Personally, my wife and I have just sold or given away all of our stuff and are movin out of our house and into our van this weekend. We hit the road for a couple months before we decide whether to stay west or come back east.

For us, we bought a hightop conversion in good shape. We went for something mechanically sound knowing we could do the camper build ourselves. We felt ok doing much of the build ourselves as we have building experience and live very simply. We plan to tent and back pack a lot so we don't need anything fancy in the van. Bed, camp stove and a pump sink and porta toilet... All is just fine for us. That said, if we stay out longer we will face some of the decisions you mention- additional power etc. we've built part time while working and I'd say we've spent about 200 bucks or so (curtains, materials lumber and hardware). The window/conversion van is super stealthy for us (not that we've needed it yet), we see several parked on city streets drawing no attention. If you picked the camper van it might be a little cumbersome at the start (folding bed, etc) but maybe that type of adjustment and "mini build" would get you going, save some dough and be manageable work while on the start of your adventure?

Best of luck- Dcosmc

 

[decodancer]

I like the older vehicles myself. Mainly because I can do some of the work myself since everything is not computerized. Wouldn't even attempt to put a starter on a newer van. I spent a fortune replacing power window motors in the only newer vehicle I ever owned, my hand crank works perfectly. I also believe they are sturdier than the newer ones. I've seen car accidents where the car looked like an accordion after a fender bender. The old ones would get just a dent. Vans are classic, most would never guess mine is an 87. It's fun to make something old new again.

 

[jeanontheroad]

Maybe I missed it, HeadinWest, but I didn't read anything about how you are going to support yourself until you can collect social security. If you are going to work on the road, the Road trek floorplans will definitely make that easier and will be more comfortable. Clothing storage, convenience of bed setup, usually some sort of shower, etc.


If you intend to live entirely off your savings, then there will be other priorities besides convenience or even comfort. Initial cost, insurance, gas mileage, and perhaps stealthily so are going to be more important.

So, what do you imagine yourself doing?

 

[SoulRaven]

American car makers have ALWAYS been profit motivated. Detroit was slow to upgrade their manufacturing because they though it would hurt profits. They believed they could keep cranking out mediocre product in the same old way forever. Just wrap a new body around decades-old engineering and the suckers would buy it up. Because what choice did they have? Expensive, temperamental Euro imports? Silly bug shaped VWs? And the too-late realization that their old business model wasn't going to work anymore drove the US car industry to bankruptcy.

You praise vehicles from the 70s and 80s, but that era produced some of the most embarrassingly awful vehicles ever to roll off an American assembly line. (Vega, Pinto, K-car, Pacer...) And if you ever come across confessions of assembly line workers from that time, it's a wonder the vehicles ran at all.

For every solid-running vehicle from that era you find today, there are millions that got sent to the scrapyard—not just because people wanted the new shiny model, but because they had turned to crap and cost too much to keep running. The ones you find today were the good exceptions. And they've had 30 or 40 years of previous owners fixing the bugs, of improving them.

Okay, in general I will agree with most of that. The thing you missed though was that their passenger vans were the pride of their fleets, with each of the big 3 jockeying for market share, and all 3 came through with better passenger vans, 300k drive trains, with better MPG than the other cars in their fleets. Only the passenger vans enjoyed these features though, the cargo vans retained the 150k drive trains, and the poorer gas mileage.

In the 90's they discontinued the 300k drive trains, and reverted back to the passenger car drive trains, and that is when the engine and transmission problems started appearing, and still plague the new ones today.

This is the reason that I like the older ones, and why there are still so many of them on the road today. The same was true of the first generation of Dodge Caravans, they were built to capture the market, and they were GREAT. Then in 1991 they went cheap and the quality disappeared. Suddenly there were engine & transmission troubles, and wiring problems. Once they had dominated the market, their incentive to build quality vehicles faded as their greed took over.

We may not have changed each others minds, but at least we know each others reasons, and I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

 

[HeadinWest]

DCosmc

The more I think about it you may be right about doing the build on the road. A saw, screws, and cordless drill. Home Depot will cut plywood to size. I could put something together to get by and then upgrade from there. Just start with a passenger van, get rid of the seats and put some kind of flooring down if needed. This would also give me the layout that I want.


jeanontheroad

I'll definitely be working somewhere, just not sure how long it will take to find something. Don't want to go through any more of the savings than I have to but I'm going to take this opportunity to visit a few states that I've always wanted to see.

"So, what do you imagine yourself doing?"

Not sure what you mean by this. As far as the vehicle goes, not sure yet. Work....will be something in the electronics field or programming.

I'm heading out again tomorrow to look at another vehicle, sounds pretty good and has everything I need/want(including a shower), but the problem on this one might be the gas mileage. He says it gets 15MPG but everyone that I've talked to says it's impossible!

 

[SternWake]

You very well might not enjoy living in/from/out of such a limited space, even if the floor plan/convenience of a Roadtrek already has the bases covered.

First thing I'd recommend, is making sure you have a comfortable bed. If you don't sleep well, night after night, Misery sets in soon after, and then you can't think clearly enough to make a decision to get yourself out of it.

If the bed aggravates back issues.........

Toppers and such can help, but if the bed is too short too soft, too lumpy, or restricted in any other annoying manner, or you can't handle not sleeping on a perfectly level surface, you will not be able to enjoy the freedoms the rolling box can afford.

I built my Windowed Passenger van, slowly, after figuring out what I wanted/needed, desired and figured out how to balance those things. Still evolving too, evolving around that comfortable bed. That original conversion Van sofa bed thing was a torture device for me.

Lots of work though, but it beats being tied to a stick and brick and a mortgage.

For me anyway. Few people agree with me, outside this forum anyway.

 

[SoulRaven]

I agree that a comfy bed is an absolute must, and for me, my swivel rocker recliner is too.

Sure, I have all of the other amenities too, but the vast majority of your time in your van is going to be sitting or sleeping, so you need those to be the most comfortable.

---

I'm heading out again tomorrow to look at another vehicle, sounds pretty good and has everything I need/want(including a shower), but the problem on this one might be the gas mileage. He says it gets 15MPG but everyone that I've talked to says it's impossible!

If it's an older one, that might even be on the low side. I average 15/18 with mine, and have gotten as high as 19.5 mpg.

That's with a 1986 1 ton Dodge Van w/ 318 engine.

Having said that, if it's the right van for you, don't even worry about the mpg. Your comfort is worth much more than using a little extra gas.

Remember, comfy bed, and comfy place to sit, the two most important things.