Benefits of Mud Tires?

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

I am always scheming to get better traction in mud for my tow vehicle (a van), which pulls a small light trailer. Since "cheap" is in the title of this website, you don't expect me to buy a four wheel drive Mercedes Sprinter van. Nor do you expect me to buy a $56,000 pickup truck. The truth is, I prefer vans to pickup trucks.

But how do you find a low-cost way to avoid getting stuck in a two wheel drive (rear) van? For the moment, let's avoid topics like Trac-Grabber, the Truck Claw, or chains.

I only have experience with so-called A/T (all terrain) tires. They aren't all that great in mud.

Do you have any experience with REAL mud tires, say, the Cooper Discoverer STT? Yes, these are expensive, but not compared to a 4WD Sprinter van.

Did you notice improved traction in sand or mud? How many miles of life did you get? (I do not drive on highways at 80 mph on 90 degree days. I don't care about a little extra noise or 0.3 mpg poorer fuel economy.)

 

[beeStout]

So, I've got like a casual handle on this.  With proper mud tires you get bite with can help a whole lot in not spinning tires.  However when you do spin you also can dig a hole and really stick yourself.

Most vehicles on the road have an open differential, it's the thing in the rear end that allows outside wheels to spin further than the inside on paved corners.  Without that differential any time you'd turn it would really chew up the tires, but the problem with it is if you loose traction on one wheel you effectively are stuck, it'll spin that loose wheel.  The extra lugs can give you a little extra bite to help with like not getting stuck on wet grass.  But your milage can be way worse than .3 less, the cheaper mud tires generally make more noise ... And depending on your rig weight i wouldn't go with the normal 4 ply offroad tires.  Heavier trucks come with 10 ply tires (the layers in the sidewall), I've had a little experience with both sides and 10 ply are way more of a sturdy thing.

There's a few kinds of rear end gadgets (called lockers) to solve open differential problems.  Essentially they lock both the wheels together, so if you have traction on one side you're going to continue moving forward.  The cheapest are generally referred to as lunchbox lockers.  Now granted all these things work but the cheaper stuff kind of knocks into the locked mode and with enough time or a big motor and trying to power out of stuff you can definitely break pieces. 

So lunchbox lockers bolt into the rear end, and they lock with pins generally. you can hear them clicking around corners on pavement and they're the most fragile. Generally these run like 200 or less

There's a probably pretty ok option from eaton that locks the wheels when there's a 100rpm difference in wheel speed.  But you can't stomp on that and have it slam into lock and expect it to last a long time.  Treated right they have a good reputation, I think they run 250ish.  I think this is the oldest locker type.

Then there's a similar but different locker called a tru-track.  it's like a secondary planetary gear set that allows turning but is sort of always locked.  There's no knock into gear.  I think these are only available for the heavier axles.  But they're real dependable and it's what I think i'll go with eventually.  They run about 400 for the part.  Installed it's generally 1100ish per axle, it's possible to do yourself but it's a little bit of knowing what you're doing.

With longer wheelbases the lockers are less likely to accidentally lock (turning radius is bigger).  So the always on stuff is more behaved. But a lock up can make you go sideways, (if you've driven rwd on ice it's kind of like that).

There's also selectable lockers, they have either a cable or air pressure or an electic mechanism that locks it in.  Probably the nicest thing for short wheel based cars or real gnarly rock crawling but there's an extra line to run and it's something to know is installed while driving.

Lockers with mud tires, on loose enough ground you could probably bury the wheels up to the axles and be truly stuck...but carefully driven you're going to have way less (wet grass type) little spots catching you.

 

[bullfrog]

Here in southern Utah rain means mud and mud means stuck. It is a good thing it doesn't rain much. I've got some really radical ProComp open tread mud tires on my J10 truck and even they won't clean most of the types of clay around here. I probably should have taken a picture of the donut of clay that formed around my tire. My tire was actually spinning inside of the mud build up and I had to clear it off with a shovel to attempt to slide back down the hill. Best to set and let the road dry out cause you won't get far once it is wet out here. The best thing about most off road open lug tires is the increased number of plys that prevent punctures and allow you to air down more without having the bead break loose from the rim. I actually run large 10 ply Mongrol UTV tires on my Suzuki Samurai. At 18 lbs. of air pressure they work pretty well in sand and have a tapered lug that leaves a print in the mud without picking up any in the tread as long as you go slow and don't spin the tire. A built out van would need a huge tire to do that as it weighs way too much and will just dig a hole especially if only one tire is spinning. I agree as stated in the post above a locker is the best and cheapest if you can be gentle with the accelerator petal, the more plys the better the tire, open lug pattern tires work better but will cost more for inital cost, fuel milage and wear out quicker. If I get 25,000 or more miles out of my tires I be lucky. You have a house on wheels so you can wait out bad weather and wet roads. Just keeping enough supplies is the best and cheapest way if regular all terrain tires arn't working for you.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I only have experience with so-called A/T (all terrain) tires. They aren't all that great in mud.

Do you have any experience with REAL mud tires, say, the Cooper Discoverer STT? Yes, these are expensive, but not compared to a 4WD Sprinter van.

Did you notice improved traction in sand or mud? How many miles of life did you get? (I do not drive on highways at 80 mph on 90 degree days. I don't care about a little extra noise or 0.3 mpg poorer fuel economy.)

I've got 40 years experience 'playing in the mud'.  A couple of thoughts:

• There are as many different kinds of mud as there are dirt.  Different gear/techniques work in different mud.
• An experienced mudder with A/T tires will drive through where an inexperienced driver with mud boggers will get stuck.
• 2 wheel drive beats 1 wheel drive every time.  In mud, snow, ice, and sand: lockers are as important as tires.
• Knowing when to air down is as important as tread pattern, spreading out the contact patch for more traction.
• If you need mud tires you also need extraction equipment, know how to use it, and have a plan for getting yourself out.

The Cooper SST is a compromise:  The tread blocks are spaced too close together for self-cleaning in sticky mud; done to make them more drivable on pavement.  It is better in mud than the A/T3 at the cost of tire life, road noise, stopping distance.  You will get about 1/2 the tire life out of the SST vs. A/T3.  They are much worse on ice and hard packed snow.  I have Cooper A/T3s on my 4X4 pickup.  They have taken me though any mud I needed to get through (except said Utah red slime).

 

[bigskybob]

I use regular all season tires and carry a set of chains.Chains are much better in mud or snow,especially if the snow is packed.I lived in Mt. for 30 years and never had a situation that chains failed to get me out of.

 

[skellr]

I am always scheming to get better traction in mud for my tow vehicle (a van), which pulls a small light trailer. Since "cheap" is in the title of this website, you don't expect me to buy a four wheel drive Mercedes Sprinter van. Nor do you expect me to buy a $56,000 pickup truck. The truth is, I prefer vans to pickup trucks.

But how do you find a low-cost way to avoid getting stuck in a two wheel drive (rear) van? For the moment, let's avoid topics like Trac-Grabber, the Truck Claw, or chains.

I only have experience with so-called A/T (all terrain) tires. They aren't all that great in mud.

Do you have any experience with REAL mud tires, say, the Cooper Discoverer STT? Yes, these are expensive, but not compared to a 4WD Sprinter van.

Did you notice improved traction in sand or mud? How many miles of life did you get? (I do not drive on highways at 80 mph on 90 degree days. I don't care about a little extra noise or 0.3 mpg poorer fuel economy.)

I just picked up a simmilar tire: the ST Maxx. Different tread pattern.


They are absolute marshmellows when driving on the highway. You can feel the sway in the wind and in when cornering. Very "squirley".

Although, they do better in the mud and do quite well in the sand, over AT tires. I agree with bigskybob. Chains are better, even more frugal, in mud and snow.

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

Skellr, I too have come to chains as the best solution for poor traction on muddy roads, with a two wheel drive van.

Since starting this thread, I finally had to the chance to install chains on a friend's truck. "Goodies" do help, such as a foam mat and gloves. It really wasn't that difficult to install them. Practice helped a lot. But the biggest obstacle is human laziness: overcoming the tendency to postpone putting the chains on until you are in a really inconvenient location.

And I agree with you that chains are more economical than mud tires, in the long run.

All of the above is predicated on the assumption that you have lots of room between the tires and the wheelwells, which is indeed the case for certain vans.

 

[B and C]

Lazy trumps chains. If there is a muddy spot that is not very long, the tendency would be to try to muscle through it. Once you're stuck, pretty tough to get chains on. I have powered through a spot that was about thirty feet across with M&S tires and positraction. I was fishtailing all the way through but made it easily. If I had one wheel drive (open rear-end) and highway tires, I would have probably turned around or got stuck. I do carry mats (portable tow truck), snatch strap, tow strap and a come-along with a snatch block. I also carry a small folding shovel. Thankfully, I haven't had to use any of it. (Knock on wood).