being a man and being politically correct or "Elephant in the room"

[wagoneer]

With all the "me too" tee shirts I have been seeing here it makes me think . Approaching a person of the opposite *** has become suspect and cause for concern to me that the implication is a negative contact . Yah i get it , but I can't lose sight of all the good guys that suffer from all the negative press. Your thoughts?

 

[RVTravel]

It's a case by case situation and we don't know all the details of every case. Harvey Weinstein seemed to have predatory behavior. Molestation (unwanted touching of private parts) or worse is never acceptable.

 

[geogentry]

I think that females in general may be a bit more wary after all the press but I dont see where there should be concern for a negative contact - unless you enter the females personal space.  Americans seem to have a rather large distance, compared to other cultures, that is commonly considered personal space.  The space is really large enough that no actual negative overt actions could occur.  I believe if you approach a person of the opposite ***, of the appropriate age of course, and respect their personal space you shouldnt have a lot of negative contacts.   Of course the rule of 10% is always there.  There is going to be that percentage that will be negative no matter what you do.

 

[WanderLoveJosh]

Unless you do something wrong, you have nothing to fear.

The percentage of women who make false claims are 1%.

The issue is that men are doing and acting in ways that they shouldn't, and then getting upset because people aren't gonna stand for it anymore

 

[SondraRose]

Love that you started this topic! Here are my thoughts/recent experiences.

As a mature married heterosexual woman, I’ve been challenged to see where I still collude when treated without respect. Though I would not say “Me too”, I have definitely felt discomfort with unwanted attention.

I don’t flirt anymore, but I am friendly and interested in people. I don’t want to be tip toeing around men because they might misinterpret my friendliness!

For example, I recently took our 2002 Sprinter to a highly reviewed diesel mechanic for an inspection. He is in his 60s, (I am 54). Several times during the test drive and inspection he touched me on my bare forearm and stroked my skin there. He said I reminded him of his late wife, so even though I was uncomfortable and surprised, I cut him some slack in the moment, and made a joke about setting him up with some single ladies. See how I colluded?

It wasn’t professional behavior and I should have called him on it and left immediately, but I wanted his professional services, so I didn’t.

Now I don’t feel comfortable going back there without my husband. And yes, I wear a wedding ring. I am not a shy woman, but I have been programmed to be “nice”.

How hard is it to say “don’t touch me”?

A few weeks later, an older guy I know at the dog park asked me out (I declined). He already knew I was married. For me, this is unwanted attention and I felt uncomfortable going to the park for a few weeks. He seems to have gotten the message and no longer approaches me.

In both cases, I think the men were pretty oblivious to anyone else’s needs other than their own.

So maybe men could check their motivation for approaching a woman.
Are you truly interested in her as a person, or are you trying to get your needs met?

 

[rm.w/aview]

 Approaching a person of the opposite *** has become suspect and cause for concern to me that the implication is a negative contact .

The idea of approaching is disconcerting, always has been. To be approached has me become acutely aware of my surroundings. I approach no one knowing that doing so makes them uneasy or uncomfortable. Interactions with people are done in a concise and amiable way, and usually done while the other person is at their job as I'm jobless. Could be a bank teller, cashier, insurance agent, state trooper, service station employee, retail employee, et cetera. I respect them, maybe we chat briefly, have a laugh, then time to move on. A true, honest, and friendly encounter is disarming, and when done quickly leaves the thought, "Well, that was nice".
I was tooling along the interstate one morning about 2 AM unknowingly doing about 120 mph. There was no traffic at all so I had no way to judge my speed except my speedometer, and I wasn't using it. The trooper asked some questions and I answered with respect and honesty. In a short time we were both at the front of my vehicle, each with one foot on the chrome bumper and the hood's open, and as we discussed motors he says, "Tell you what, I'll put you down for 70 instead of 120." Whenever I look back on that I think, "Well, that was nice." 
Honestly respectful or respectfully honest, either way it's not difficult and can be great fun.

 

[Sleep]

Maybe if you treat new women you meet the way you would want your sister or mother treated it wouldn't be so uncomfortable.  Yesterday I was on the phone with a nice young man from Renogy yesterday about the new system I wanted to order, I told him what would you tell your mother to do!
When we were done I said thank you for not trying to sell me something I didn't need, a great experience. 

Hope this helps!

 

[John61CT]

> good guys that suffer from all the negative press

Examples?

Just because a man is very PC, politically progressive and all "I'm a feminist too", does **not** mean he is always respectful of women as individuals, or considerate of their feelings of vulnerability, or not going to take "subtle" advantage of a career situation or other power imbalance.

No matter how much I admired them and/or their work, I'm pretty sure every single one was a complete tool in that aspect of their behaviour.

And in most cases deserve punishment much harsher than losing a job, reputation and small percentage of their millions.

The one that killed himself, maybe not.

As far as the OP topic goes, it **really** isn't hard, and you don't need to visualize a family member either.

How would a person want to be approached if s/he'd been sexually assaulted or even ***** in the past by someone that looks a lot like you?

Because odds are pretty good, that is exactly the case.

> I think that females in general may be a bit more wary after all the press

Wut? Women (not "females", we are the same species y'know) have **all** been fully aware just how dangerous men are going back millions of years thanks very much.

This is a straight men's issue, they're the only ones been so willfully ignorant all this time.

 

[Stargazer]

This is a very complicated situation, IMO.  And it's a two way street.  I would also warn against treating a strange woman as you would your mother, sister, or other female family member; it may get you in trouble.  In my family, hugging and touching was not done.  We showed love and respect in non-touching ways.  My son-in-law came from a very touchy feely family and he insists on hugging me.  It's his way of showing his care for me.  We talked about it and I decided it is ok.  It is often our own interpretation of another's actions.

I have been monitoring my own interactions with men as a result of all the publicity.  And I have always tried to be careful not to say anything that could be offensive to another or be interpreted as an invitation, sometimes I am shocked that what I have said was seen totally differently from my intent!  Recently I was at a game night and was sitting out a hand.  One participant, an excellent player, is blind.  I was going to sit next to him to observe the game, it was a noisy environment, so as I was about to sit down, I gently placed my hand on his shoulder and said, "Hey, 'Joe', it's 'Mary'. Is it ok if I sit next to you and watch?"  I wanted to let him know I was there.  Was my touch unwelcome?  And when meeting a stranger, if I smile and be friendly, is that an invitation?  

I don't have an answer.  How does one be friendly without crossing the line?  Other than the obvious, some areas are off limits of course.  On top of that, I have a hard time making friends and in group situations anyway.  This just gives me another excuse to stay home and be even more reclusive.  Sigh.

 

[jimindenver]

It isn't treat a woman like you would treat your Mother/ daughter/ sister. It is treat them as you would want another man to treat your Mother/daughter/sister.

 

[wagoneer]

Isolated from having a Mother sister or Daughter, of which I have none I do agree with your assessment. Just 2 great sons On the right and my niece's

 

[Sleep]

Thanks Jim, that's was I was trying to say. It must have come out the wrong way  :-/

 

[IGBT]

I guess I am not very current with the times (still use a very old phone)

I saw these shirts that said #Me Too

For me, the # sign means pound

Pound me too?

What does that mean?

 

[tx2sturgis]

In social media the 'pound' sign means 'hashtag'...

 

[John61CT]

Which is a "category" tag, so you can search or follow a topic thread across the twitterverse without needing to know the people's handles in advance.

A bit like a thread or sub-forum here.

 

[IGBT]

never tweeted or even signed up for facebook, thanks.

 

[slynne]

Guys. I am here to help. Just follow The Rock Rule. Don't treat women like you would treat your mother, sister, wife, daughter, etc but rather how you would treat another man but especially another man as intimidating as Dwayne Johnson. Would you tell him he would be prettier if he smiled? Would you "accidentally" touch his butt or his breast? 

"It’s as clear cut as this: Treat all women like you would treat Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson."


https://medium.com/@annevictoriacla...-be-accused-of-sexual-harassment-73c45e0b49af

 

[tripper]

I treat woman about the same as men, as a friend. If after being friends for a while more develops, than so be it. I haven't ever pursued a woman, friendship just develops naturally if it was meant to be. Of course, this might be a lot harder if you are full time on the road.

 

[rm.w/aview]

With all the "me too" tee shirts I have been seeing here it makes me think . Approaching a person of the opposite *** has become suspect and cause for concern to me that the implication is a negative contact . Yah i get it , but I can't lose sight of all the good guys that suffer from all the negative press. Your thoughts?

This train of thought parallels the thinking of Bill Burr in this short clip,
What's a guy to do, beside the obvious task of never being alone in a circumstance that has the potential of negative impact.

 

[Bohemian scout]

Don’t say things that come out the wrong way, not funny. Think before you speak. You have to change your way of thinking, I’m sure this is very hard for a lot of men. But after a lifetime of being treated as a sexual object women are fed up! I love that all of this is coming out now maybe people will start believing us. If you do that now you’re liable to get your head knocked off. How do you want your daughter to be treated? Sorry if this comes off as being harsh, but I just had surgery and I’m on drugs. Not responsible for what I say but after all it is the truth.