Auto switch from shoreline to battery system...

[galladanb]

What do you guys recommend for a system that will auto switch from shoreline to 12 v power?

BY that I mean I would like to be on battery / inverter most of the time, (Boondocking, etc)
then when I can grab some shore power, have the systems "KNOW" and switch over for regular use and charging...

I saw a story the other day mentioning a system designed around a charger converter, but it didn't mention any specific items.

I think I would prefer a system that used different components and not necessarily an all in one unit, if they exist?
That way if something broke, I'm totally shut down...

Thx, IN Advance!!!

 

[jonsun]

Any RV converter or inverter charger

You would want an all in one because the system gets weird on the charge side if your panels are supplying voltage when the converter/charger is going. It thinks the battery is full when it's not making it pointless at least for recharging.

To my knowledge no one makes that yet.

RV converters need to have a sense wire at the least and really programmable voltage output. cause if it has a standard 14.4v output you wont see that at the battery and FLA's need more like 14.8v anyway. Then you'd be alright if you either plug in in the morning/evening or disconnect the panel.

if you dont want charging then you can probably wire a manual switch for all DC outputs. One would pull from battery, the other side from the converter.

 

[firebob]

You would need to find an inverter that has a built in charger.  They have there limitations.

Outback or part of the Magnum and Xantrex lines; there are more brands out there.

There are a few companies that can do load sharing where it will use the inverter and the line power at the same time.
Most of them will go into bypass when shore power is plugged in and will charge with the amount of amps you tell it to.

I have a Outback inverter.  I have mine set up for a dedicated 20 amp outlet.  You should only pull 80% of the breaker name plate so your down to 16 amps.  I have my charger set to 5 amps ac; one the batteries charge your able to use these amps.  This leaves me with 11 amps or 1,320 watts.  I can run my ac, heat, or cook, but not 2 of them at a time.

 

[galladanb]

OK, so lets back up a little bit... ( Because I don't know, and I don't have my rig completed yet...)

What is the routine for switching from say solar to shore and then switching from shore to solar?

I assume you would simply plug in shore line or unplug, OF course, but then switch something (LIKE what? EXACTLY?)

Walk me thru the connect steps for switching, just as if you were selling me the rig and it was already setup...

I would prefer just the how to instructions.

 

[jonsun]

the simple answer is they do it automatically.......BUT

If plugged in the charge controller would see the battery is charged because its simply getting voltage from the converter. OR if the voltage is lower from the converter than the set point on the charge controller the controller will go into float mode.

That is what most people seem to be doing....i cant imagine its right though because neither one is putting out the current needed to actually charge the battery. The converter is to low of voltage (typical) and the panels are in absorption of float which tapers the current based on the batteries voltage.

that's why I said either an all in one or isolating the two systems. There's personally nothing I know of to do that automatically. Hopefully someone else does!

 

[galladanb]

For me, WAY TO MUCH THEORY.. LOL!

I'm asking how do you switch or isolate from one to the other????

IS the AC side wired so it is Always LIVE??? and then powered up from the inverter?
I understand the charger would not be available when NOT on Shore, right?
The inverter would be offline when plugged in to shore, right?

Looking for a simple (KINDA) way to switch over...
And maybe pre-planning the wiring for a future switch ability????

 

[jonsun]

When plugged in a converter supplies AC power, DC power, AND charges. It does NOT supply AC when running off of batteries. only when plugged in.

an inverter charger DOES....you will have 120v at all times and will automatically know if you're pulling from shore or battery (thats called a transfer switch)

http://www.theinverterstore.com/200...gWQSeTZVipaUTGeqKXMm7CtF54ctS_CYG6BoCe_jw_wcB

 

[jonsun]

you can use a standalone inverter and a standalone charger to plug into a shore outlet, though.

You can put a load on the batteries through the inverter and charge them at the same time.


you'd have this plugged into a power bay with all other high current appliances then simply plug that into the shore outlet.
http://www.jameco.com/z/HEP-600C-12..._wtn-dAa0Uh1r2zEWIVHq0ku--Cj-phzFkRoCayvw_wcB

generally the inverter/converter/charger would be for a pre-wired system in a boat or RV.

 

[galladanb]

When plugged in a converter supplies AC power, DC power, AND charges. It does NOT supply AC when running off of batteries. only when plugged in.

an inverter charger DOES....you will have 120v at all times and will automatically know if you're pulling from shore or battery (thats called a transfer switch)

http://www.theinverterstore.com/200...gWQSeTZVipaUTGeqKXMm7CtF54ctS_CYG6BoCe_jw_wcB

VERY COOL!!!

While looking at the one you suggested, I saw this one:
http://www.theinverterstore.com/1000-watt-pure-sine-inverter-charger.html

I'm thinking it would be more affordable for me. Is this one about the same as the one you suggested, just lower powered?
!000w vs 2000w???

 

[galladanb]

But Getting back to the original question...

Maybe I should have asked how does a normal, solar powered, van dweller switch back and forth tween shore and solar???
What steps are involved in doing that???

I don't want to fry the inverter or worse???

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

The part you are looking for is called a TRANSFER SWITCH.  They are often built into larger inverters, but you can find them separately, too.

 

[Almost There]

But Getting back to the original question...

Maybe I should have asked how does a normal, solar powered, van dweller switch back and forth tween shore and solar???
What steps are involved in doing that???

I don't want to fry the inverter or worse???

I have an inlet wired for 120V (either from a generator or shore power). I plug in to it. Power from either 120 source is routed through a circuit breaker box (small home style) to outlets in the van (2) and one in the 'electrical room' that the battery charger is plugged in to.

I also have 2 duplex outlets wired to the inverter. The inverter has a switch in the living area of the van that is convenient so I don't have to go in to the electrical cabinet to turn the inverter on.

My solar system has an inlet so that when I want to use solar (most of the time), I simply plug in the cable from the solar to the inlet. From the inlet the wiring runs to the controller and then to the batteries.

I should add that my solar system is portable, not roof mounted but the principle remains the same. One either plugs it in or has a switch that allows the power to go from the solar panels to the controller.

Both of my inlets are mounted on the bumper of the van so that I didn't have to drill holes in the van walls.

I'm not sure how you think you could fry the inverter. It should only be wired from the batteries and of course, be protected properly with fuses.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

BTW, Someone here - and I'm not naming any names! - tried making up a short power cord with MALE plugs on each end.  He would plug one end into the outlet on his inverter, and plug the other end into a wall socket, and it would energize all the other wall sockets.  Of course, you need to unplug that if you are going to use shore power, and he forgot to do that one day.  He reported that the fireworks were SPECTACULAR!

If you don't want to spend the big bucks for an automatic switch, there are some fairly inexpensive manual transfer switches that are easily wired and can control **3** inputs into one output.  These are British, but don't worry about their referencing 230 volts - that's the MAX and they will handle 120 just fine.

http://www.sterling-power-usa.com/m...rsourcesareusedsuchasinvertersshorepower.aspx

 

[jonsun]

VERY COOL!!!

While looking at the one you suggested, I saw this one:
http://www.theinverterstore.com/1000-watt-pure-sine-inverter-charger.html

I'm thinking it would be more affordable for me. Is this one about the same as the one you suggested, just lower powered?
!000w vs 2000w???

The simplest and cheapest is to buy a small regular inverter. $50 for standard or alot more for pure sine wave.

Then buy a 3 stage charger like the meanwell...No specifically that meanwell model.

Then just hook them and solar company controller to battery. Hook panel to a plug then to controller so you can unplug it while hooked to shore power. 

Run high watt stuff only on shore power. Run TV's, computer always off small inverter.

 

[jonsun]

I suppose the simplest solution to panel vs charger is just crank up voltage to wide open on charger and run it through the charge controller as if it's a big panel array.

 

[galladanb]

Almost There - Thank You for sharing. Would it be asking too much for some images for clarity?
Also if I understand what your saying, you have outlets that are only engergized when on Shore power, and a couple that come off of the inverter.
And when you say inlets in the bumper, do you mean a place for the shore line and the suitcase panels?

IS that right?
I suppose I was worried that the inverter would be fryed when the shore line is plugged in...
But I guess the way you have it wired the inverter outlets are not connected to the shore line ones? Right?

 

[galladanb]

Bardo - Thx for the knowledge!

Then buy a 3 stage charger like the meanwell...No specifically that meanwell model.

Meanwell? What is that? Which Model?


Then just hook them and solar company controller to battery. Hook panel to a plug then to controller so you can unplug it while hooked to shore power.

Them? What are you unplugging? Panels to controller? Controller to batteries? Batteries????


Run high watt stuff only on shore power. Run TV's, computer always off small inverter.
By this, I am guessing you would have split circuits like Almost There's setup? Is that what you mean here?

Sorry for my confusion... I think Im beginning to see the end of the tunnel.... Maybe???

 

[galladanb]

Bardo -

I suppose the simplest solution to panel vs charger

Panel Vs charger? Do you mean solar panel battery charging, as opposed to charging from shore power. right?

is just crank up voltage to wide open on charger and run it through the charge controller as if it's a big panel array.
And I have no clue what this last part means...?

 

[jonsun]

-The one I linked earlier. HEP-600c or whatever.

-I was saying have a plug or switch to turn solar panel off so it's not screwing with the charger.

-next, you really can't run high current stuff off a battery unless you have a large bank or agm's. So you'd be forced to rely on shore power for the microwave and stuff. The low current appliances can run on any inverter. A $35 400w modified sine wave does me just fine.

-Finally, with that charger specifically the voltage can be adjusted. you can open it up to 15.xx volts. so instead of unplugging solar panel yo can run both the panel and charger through the charge controller.

 

[jonsun]

I explained it in the first post I made. there's a conflict when you try to run shore/generator with a solar setup. It wont charge the battery because both systems think the battery is full due it getting volts from the other source.

two solutions

manually plug and unplug solar panel when you hook to shore power

or

run the output of the battery charger (the meanwell HEP-600c) to the solar charge controller instead of the battery as if it were a large panel. so plug it into the solar panel port of the charge controller. You can only do that with a charger that outputs more than ~15v