Any paddlers out there?

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Queen said:
It's good for all of those things, especially exploring, a kayak is a very shallow draft craft and you can get into places that would be almost impossible with a regular boat.


Alas, one difficulty with my homemade skin-on-frames was that while they are a lot tougher than they look, they can potentially be holed by things like underwater rocks or oyster bars. So I always had to be very very careful in shallow water.......

Not a problem with a plastic Tupperware.
 
lenny flank said:
Alas, one difficulty with my homemade skin-on-frames was that while they are a lot tougher than they look, they can potentially be holed by things like underwater rocks or oyster bars. So I always had to be very very careful in shallow water.......

Not a problem with a plastic Tupperware.

I love how your boats look, but that is one huge advantage to roto-molded, you could beach one on a bed of oysters and only get scratches.
 
Queen said:
Look at Wilderness Systems and Perception brands as well, they are very affordable and well made.
Thanks, will look at both of those. PS, I added a link above to one I'm looking at.
 
I suppose it should be explicitly stated that we are talking about "sea kayaks". "River kayaks" (used to run river rapids) are an entirely different animal altogether, and the skill sets are entirely different.
 
lenny flank said:
I suppose it should be explicitly stated that we are talking about "sea kayaks". "River kayaks" (used to run river rapids) are an entirely different animal altogether, and the skill sets are entirely different.
Is this whole thread about sea kayaks only? If so, then I must apologize for not reading that part. The kayaks I was thinking about would be for lakes and slower (hopefully) moving rivers.
 
I  have looked into skin on frame and seen how tough they are, I want to do that in the future. Even lighter than my western red cedar strippers are, just need a larger cockpit for these older bones to access.
 
makenmend said:
I  have looked into skin on frame and seen how tough they are, I want to do that in the future. Even lighter than my western red cedar strippers are, just need a larger cockpit for these older bones to access.

I just looked them up to see what they are all about. WOW! A 25 lb kayak? Incredible. I suspect they might not be as good for an older person though?
 
Ballenxj,  I know some one who has the boat you linked to, a very stable pontoon type hull. there is I believe a skirt/cover to keep out most water,  I did a Brazos river camp trip with him a few years back, can carry a load.
 
Ballenxj said:
I just looked them up to see what they are all about. WOW! A 25 lb kayak? Incredible. I suspect they might not be as good for an older person though?

Well I'm into my 70s and still kayaking, to me kayaking isn't about paddling hard, it's gently paddling and relaxing. If your working hard your doing it wrong and or it's very windy.
 
Ballenxj said:
I often think about getting a kayak. I'm a total novice, I know nothing about them.
Anybody have any experience with both have an opinion about which would be better for a beginner?

I'd recommend a Rotomold, sit-on-top kayak as your first boat.  They're much easier to get back into should you fall out, and as others have said, kayaks are a lot more fun and versatile than a canoe.  I would also suggest getting something with a rudder.  

I often hear experienced paddlers "Poo-Poo" the use of a rudder, claiming that it's cheating and shows a lack of good paddle technique and skill (big deal). :rolleyes:  
Some of us don't aspire to become professional kayakers, but instead just enjoy a relaxing day on the water, and a rudder can make all sorts of difficult situations manageable: Following seas, weathercocking, improved tracking in a shorter boat, reducing roll, etc.  
(The tracking advantage means you won't wear yourself out making corrective strokes to stay in a straight line). 

Personally I prefer sit-in boats.  They're a lot lighter and they put my butt below the waterline, increasing stability.  I also stay a lot dryer being inside the boat.  They're also a lot more aerodynamic, making battling a headwind easier.  Sit-ins are also lot easier to toss onto your shoulder when you need to portage around/over an obstacle in your way.  
Try that with a 75+ lb sit-on-top with no cockpit combing to rest on your shoulder.   :p 

As to the issue of being trapped inside a touring boat with a spray skirt and not knowing how to do a roll:  There's a loop at the front of the spray skirt that you pull should you capsize.  This pops the skirt off the cockpit combing and allows you to push yourself out of the boat, like pulling your foot out of a shoe.  
If you're wearing a PFD/life jacket, as you should at all times, you'll pop to the surface next to your capsized boat.  

The disadvantage to a sit-in design is that they require more gear (bilge pump, paddle-float, skirt) and training (rescue and reentry) before you can safely use them.  Most rental companies won't let you rent a sit-in unless you can prove you know how to get back into the boat.  

Most kayak and outdoor outfitters have demo days where they bring out last years inventory/old rentals and let the public try them out.  That's a great way to get answers and find out what design you like the best.  


I rented the very kayak I now own, twice, before I bought it, just to make sure it was what I wanted.
 
Makenmend that's gorgeous!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BigT said:
I'd recommend a Rotomold, sit-on-top kayak as your first boat.  They're much easier to get back into should you fall out, and as others have said, kayaks are a lot more fun and versatile than a canoe.  I would also suggest getting something with a rudder.  
<-------->
Most kayak and outdoor outfitters have demo days where they bring out last years inventory/old rentals and let the public try them out.  That's a great way to get answers and find out what design you like the best.  


I rented the very kayak I now own, twice, before I bought it, just to make sure it was what I wanted.
A lot of information here, as well as a lot to think about. I would never have thought about a bilge pump for a kayak. Also didn't know you could get one with a rudder? Can one be had with a rotomold sit on top kayak? The ones that call to me the most are similar to the one I linked to above. Thanks for the input.
 
Ballenxj said:
Is this whole thread about sea kayaks only? If so, then I must apologize for not reading that part. The kayaks I was thinking about would be for lakes and slower (hopefully) moving rivers.

Those are the same--they are all "sea kayaks" even if they never see salt water.

"River kayaks" are the short wide boats for shooting rapids (that you have to wear a helmet with).
 
Ballenxj said:
I just looked them up to see what they are all about. WOW! A 25 lb kayak? Incredible. I suspect they might not be as good for an older person though?

I was still paddling mine at 54. And I'd still be paddling them at 56 if I weren't traipsing all over the country in a camper van.  ;)

Yes, the big advantage of a skin-on-frame is that they are very lightweight. Another big advantage is that they are cheap--I can make a 16-footer for around $150--all it requires are some cedar 1x2's, a few yards of 10-ounce duck canvas, and a gallon of latex paint. And some heavy-duty fishing line to sew on the skin and hold the frame together.
 
Queen said:
I love how your boats look, but that is one huge advantage to roto-molded, you could beach one on a bed of oysters and only get scratches.

Yep. If my skin-on-frame fell off the car roof, I'd end up with a canvas bag full of splintered wood.  If a plastic kayak falls off the car roof, it will bounce up the road for a quarter mile, and then you can just tie it back on the roof and be on your merry way.

:)
 
Ballenxj said:
A lot of information here, as well as a lot to think about. I would never have thought about a bilge pump for a kayak. Also didn't know you could get one with a rudder? Can one be had with a rotomold sit on top kayak? The ones that call to me the most are similar to the one I linked to above. Thanks for the input.

Yes, you can get a Rotomold sit-on-top with a rudder, though you may find it a littler harder to find used with one.  
If you go with a new boat, you can order it any way you like.  

I'm not sure I'd call that Angler 16 you linked to a kayak.  Its wide open design is more akin to a canoe, and unless it has some hidden floatation compartments somewhere, it's going to sink if you capsize.  :D

Do a search for the Wilderness Systems kayaks.  The Tarpon and Pungo are good, stable designs, though they are a bit heavy.  

I don't know where you are, but I just spotted a really nice Pungo 140 on CL for $700.  (Calif).
 
BigT said:
I'm not sure I'd call that Angler 16 you linked to a kayak.  Its wide open design is more akin to a canoe, and unless it has some hidden floatation compartments somewhere, it's going to sink if you capsize. 
Question, would a skin on frame kayak also sink if it capsized? 
Thanks for all the information.
 
I'm going out tomorrow for an Easter paddle in the kayak.
Ballenxj, I"ll give a full report on how I do.
 
waldenbound said:
I'm going out tomorrow for an Easter paddle in the kayak.
Ballenxj, I"ll give a full report on how I do.
Can't wait to hear. :)
 
Ballenxj said:
Question, would a skin on frame kayak also sink if it capsized?  

Nearly all of them have either inflatable flotation bags or styrofoam floats installed in each end, specifically so they won't sink when flooded.
 
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