Am I Misusing my Deep Cell Battery?

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Damian Rolling

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I would appreciate some insight on whether or not I am misusing my deep cell battery when I am boondocking.

My van has a Number 27 AGM 100 amp Battery, a Magnum Energy MS2000 Inverter/Charger, and two solar panels. I do not have the high engine idle. 

I keep the Magnum inverter off when boondocking unless I an using it to heat water or use the microwave (I have a portable 100 watt and 400 watt inverters for small appliances).

My understanding is that the battery should never drop below 50 percent (12.2 or 12.1). But when using the water heater or microwave it drops way below that. I have a 2.5 gal. water heater and just need to run it about 15 minutes to get hot water.

Example:

At 1 PM on a sunny day the solar panels have the battery up to 12.9.

-I start the van engine, turn on the inverter, and then the water heater. 
-In a minute or less the battery drops to 11.2 or 11.3.
-After turning the water heater off, the battery is up to 12.5 in a about a minute. It keeps increasing and is back to 12.9 in about 15 minutes.

Is it all right to have the battery drop to 11.2 for 15 minutes while the water heater is on?
 
My understanding is that any reading while there is a significant draw will be inaccurate. The reading immediately after you conclude the draw (shut off your water heater, for example) is the important one.

I tend to think that high draw items such as electric water heaters, space heaters, microwaves and even inverters are efficiency waste items. But a lot of people want them and will disagree with me there. To make good use of those high draw items, I think you may end up wanting a larger battery bank.
 
Voltage dropping under heavy loads is to be expected.  It depends on the size of the load as to how much the voltage should drop.

Which water heater do you have, do you know the wattage?

Which brand of AGM battery?  Just 1?

Where are you measuring the voltage, at the battery terminals or elsewhere?


Properly recharging AGMS means being able to fully charge them regularly.  If they hover in the 50 to 75% charged range they will not be a happy battery and will fail prematurely.  This goes for flooded/wet batteries too, but this partial state of charge cycling hurts the AGM more, in comparison.

Do you have an Ammeter?

When a 100 AH AGM battery can no longer accept 0.5amps at 14.4v @77f only then can it be considered fully charged.  This, and an Amp hour counting battery monitor are the only way to know for sure an AGM is actually 100% fully charged.  I think your magnum inverter/charger allows for fairly precise adjustments of absorption voltage and duration, and is quite capable of achieving 99%+ when programmed correctly and left on the battery for long enough  

When the engine is running but without the water heater or microwave on, what is the voltage on the battery terminals?

You can continue to work the AGM and alternator hard.  The key to not killing that AGM, will be by achieving a true 100% recharge every 4 to 7 cycles, and to be able to feed it a high rate when most depleted.  Think 25+ amps into a group 27AGM.  

How much solar wattage do you have?


If you are hovering in that 75% charged range, yes you are killing your battery.
If voltage rebounds fairly quickly above 12.2v after removing large loads, then the battery is not yet at 50% charged.
The faster the voltage rebounds after load removal, the healthier the battery, when compared to itself when it was new.



You have to weigh what is an acceptable battery lifespan, vs being able to achieve that 100% recharge as often as possible. 

Example:

At 1 PM on a sunny day the solar panels have the battery up to 12.9.

On a sunny day at 1PM, the battery should be at 14.4volts.  12.9v at this stage signifies a battery well below 80% charged, and if there have not been any heavy loads on the battery from sunup to a super sunny  1PM this can also indicate way too little solar.

I suspect  you are also working your alternator very hard when heating water or microwaving.  Do you have an IR thermometer?  Higher than 220f and alternator life will be drastically shortened.  12.9v with the engine running indicates either a maxed out alternator and the excess energy coming out of the battery, or a charging system( voltage regulator or alternator), not working properly.

I have considered adding a cold air intake to my alternator, as I also work my alternator hard, but nowhere near as hard as you are yours.

51x8I9sBy4L._SL1000_.jpg

41SxcygBX7L.jpg


A cooler alternator will not only last longer, it will be able to generate more amperage.
 
Sternwake is 100% right, the 12.9 at 1:00 PM is killing your battery.

At 1:00 pm my battery is at about 14 volt and if I run my microwave it will drop to 11.9, but when it goes off it will jump right back to 14.

Does you battery ever get charged to 14 volt during the day? If not you're cutting its life down.
Bob
 
Is it possible that the battery can no longer be charged to 14v, due to either age or misuse? Or isn't that a symptom of how batteries age?
 
100 amp hour battery is not enough for how you are using it.
 
BradKW said:
Is it possible that the battery can no longer be charged to 14v, due to either age or misuse?  Or isn't that a symptom of how batteries age?

A sulfated/abused/chronically undercharged battery will rise quicker to 14+ volts and require less amperage to do so than a healthy battery.

Absorption voltage is generally 14.2 to 14.8v  at 77F depending on the battery manufacturer AND is temperature dependent. 

 Higher temps, lesser absorption voltages.
 Lower temps and higher voltages are REQUIRED to reach full charge.

One can apply a 30 amp charger to a  100 AH battery and the battery might reach 14.4v in 30 minutes .  However, it must remain at 14.4v until amps taper to 2 to 3% of capacity for a 100AH capacity flooded/wet battery, verifiable with a hydrometer, or to 0.5amps per 100AH of capacity for an AGM battery.

So getting a battery upto a certain voltage means nothing.  Voltage is not like a fuel level meter on a gas tank.

Getting a battery to absorption voltage and holding it there for as long as it takes, is how one correctly and fully charges a battery in a reasonable time frame.

The slower/lesser the charge rate ( less amps) at which one gets to absorption voltage, the less time is needed at absorption voltage, as it got upto absorption voltage at a higher % state of charge.

The higher the recharge rate, the lower the % state of charge at which absorption voltage is attained, and the longer it will take( in comparison) after that point, for it to reach a true 100% state of charge, when absorption voltage is held for the duration.

Generally, if one initially applies 20 to 30 amps per 100AH of capacity on a wet/flooded battery, it will reach absorption voltage at 75% to 80% state of charge, and require about 4 more hours at absorption voltage to be near fully charged.

If one applies only 5 to 8 amps into a 100AH battery then it will reach absorption voltage at about 90% state of charge and only another ~2 hours will be required to hold absorption voltage before the battery can be considered fully charged.  These numbers are general, not set in stone.

Sometimes when batteries fail, a cell will short out, and the other 2 or 5 cells receive that much higher voltage will bubble vigorously when charging.  It is not good to try and charge a battery with a shorted cell. It can be dangerous due to lots of offgassing.

 A battery which drops to the 10.5v range after charging likely has a shorted cell and should be taken out of service asap.   When discharging a battery with a shorted cell, well, most devices will not work properly on 10.5 volts or less, but some will.  It is important to not keep cycling a battery with a shorted cell. If it is in parallel with another battery, that other battery is basically trying to charge the battery with a shorted cell, and provide current for all normal loads.  It will quickly degrade.  A shorted cell can easily go unnoticed by the casual observer of battery voltage when there are 2 or more batteries in parallel.

Remember it is TIME at Absorption voltage.  Once abosrption voltage is reached, the amps required to hold that voltage begin to decline.

Once amperage declines to a certain point, the battery can be considered fully charged.

This does not take into effect when a flooded battery needs an equalization charge or an AGM needs a 'conditioning' charge.

Batteries rarely returned to 100% require conditioning/equalizing more frequently.

Only Lifeline AGM lists a 'conditioning' charge as acceptable and lists a procedure for it.  No other AGM list any such procedure as there is the likelyhood of popping the vents.

Generally with an AGM, to recondition, after proper absorption voltage is held until amps taper to basically nothing, 0.0x amps at 14.4v at 77f. ONLY then can one bump up the voltage to 15.5v or so.  Lifeline says to hold 15.5v for 8 hours at 77F to recondition.

I'd perform a 15.5v 'reconditioning' on my Northstar AGM, if it would ever show signs of requiring it, but since it gets 100% charged often, and charged at a high rate often, it is behaving extremely well so far.

The importance of adjusting absorption voltage, and float voltage, in cooler weather cannot be overstated.  Each battery manufacturer says to increase a slightly different amount per temp rise/fall, usually in MV per cell, but what is 14.7 at 77F might need 14.92v@ 55F.  14.7v applied when 14.9v is needed will greatly lengthen time to reach full charge, lessening the chances one actually achieves 100% before that next discharge cycle begins.

Excessive voltage applied longer than required eats away the positive plates, but in most cases is much less detrimental to the battery than the chronic undercharging it is more likely to see in vandweller usage.

The KEY to ultimate battery longevity is  the proper amount of Time, at the proper absorption voltage.
Proper absorption voltage held for the time required.

This will be different for every battery, different as the battery ages, different at different temperatures, and different depending on average depth of discharge and initial  Charge rate, and Temperature.  Most 'automatic' charging sources cannot and will not adjust this voltage or duration and as such, likely do not fully recharge the battery, they do not do their job.  But they will flash that green light full charge indicator, and mock any human who believes it.

  When a charging source drops to float voltage, IT DOES NOT mean the battery is fully charged, it only means absorption voltage was held as long as it was programmed to do so.  If a person assumes that when their solar controller drops to float, that their battery is full, they are deluding themselves.  Only if one uses a hydrometer can one make the 100% charged claim and often the hydrometer will prove the solar controller  or other 'smart' charger, to be a big fat liar.

Those with flooded batteries can dip a hydrometer and determine how long absorption voltage needs to be held in their usage to reach a true 100% State of charge which is so incredibly important to achieve good to excellent battery longevity.

Those with AGM batteries need an Ammeter to see when amperage required to maintain absorption voltage decline to 0.5% of capacity. 0.5amps per 100AH of capacity.
Those with AH counting battery monitors should verify the monitor via these methods after many cycles, as that 100% point drifts over time.  Also make sure the battery capacity is programmed correctly, and use the AH from full screen, not the % remaining screen.
 
I appreciate all the information provided here. I should have mentioned that the battery does go above 14.0; it just was not there the day I posted. Today it was up to 14.2.

I only have one deep cell battery and while I know it is 27 AGM 100 Amp, I do not know the manufacturer. The water heater is made by Richmond.

If I am on the road and want hot water I will run the heater while I am driving. At highway speed the battery stays high even with the water heater on. The RTR is the longest I have been camped in one place. I am only using the water heater every few days - the rest of the times I heat water on the stove to wash.

I do not have an ampmeter and track the battery with the inverter panel and solar control panel. So, the inverter should only be used when the battery is 14 plus?
 
Upto 14.2v is NOT enough.  It has likely got to get upto 14.4v minimum, and hold there for at least 2 hours.


Run the inverter whenever you need to, but you are in the process of batterycide unless you can get  the battery to 14.4v+ and be able to hold it there for at least 2 hours every day.

If the AGM is an Asian AGM like/similar to this:

http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Power-Group-45978-Battery/dp/B0044Z8DJW

Then I'd bump up the solar voltage to 14.8 or 14.9v. and still adjust your battery usage, so the solar or other charging sources can get the battery upto and hold the high 14' volt range for 2 or more hours.

You could also likely benefit from thicker copper between house battery and alternator.

YOu likely need more battery capacity and more charging capacity, or,  youwill just have to replace the battery far more often, and hopefully it does not pose too much an inconvenience when it 'no longer takes a charge'.  In your usage this might be 1.5 months total before the battery simply cannot do what you want.

And while this is semantics and not important.....  Deep "cell" refers to a tall flooded battery like a golf cart battery at 11.5 inches tall, or the L-16 which is about 17 inches tall,  Both these battery's were originally designed as a Deep Cycle battery.  12v AGM batteries are more of a hybrid battery and do not fall into this true deep cycle category, though of course they can be deeply cycled.

You can use this battery hard, but you must recharge it fully, as often as possible if you want to get your money's worth out of it .

The following tool can let you know when you do reach 100% charged.  When the battery can only accept 0.5 amps at 14.4v.**

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=09HTMDPSM73JY559WK2G

One clamps it over only one wire in the circuit, any circuit, to see the amperage flowing through the wire to the device. Extremely useful!!

Peukert's law says large loads reduce overall battery capacity available, so when you are running the microwave or water heater on battery power alone, your 100AH battery might only have 65AH total capacity to give  before 100% depletion, and 32.5 Ah to give to not go below the 50% threshhold.  And that also assumes you are starting with a fully charged and healthy battery, which you are not.

**The Precise absorption voltage required depends on the battery manufacturer, and is hugely affected by temperature**
 

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