Replacing my '04 Prius

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Suanne

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Homebase is Pahrump, NV.
I got my '04 Prius in Nov. '03, one of the first of the 2nd Generation off the line.  My commute to work was 70+miles one-way at the time; so, a high-MPG vehicle only made sense.  Still, even in progressive Western Washington, my funny-shaped car drew stares as I passed by.  And in the small town where I lived, it was a true oddity.  But, before I bought it, I joined an online group discussing this latest generation of Prius.  Before it arrived in the US, it already had a cult-like following.  These were really smart people in the Prius group.  What they said made sense to me and jived with my independent research.  So, I became an early adopter.

Now, 14 years later, the Prius has become a proven platform world wide.  And my '04, with almost 232K miles, has far exceeded my expectations in every way.

When I retired in '08, I had already put over 100K (highway) miles on it.  When I knew I wanted to do extended road trips, I finally settled on using the Prius to do so.  If you want to read more about that decision, it's documented here on my blog.

I've maintained the Prius very well, doing all scheduled oil changes and tune ups, and kept all receipts.  I've also driven it very hard and taken it on back roads that no Prius was ever intended to go.  I've got lots of desert pin stripping, rock dings, ripped-off plastic trim pieces, and a few small crunches from hitting unmovable objects :)   I've always used regular street tires, and have never blew a tire.  On rough roads, I go slow and pick my way carefully.  Outside of regular maintenance, I've spent less than $1K on repairs.  In January, a fellow Prius dweller ran some diagnostics on my high-voltage batteries and they all are healthy.

But, in the last few months, non-essential stuff has started to break-- a couple of door locks don't work electronically, security system no longer works, the computer screen is blank 95% of the time, the dash goes blank, a few buttons on the steering wheel don't work, one HID headlight is going out, etc.   I didn't want to be outside the US, in the backcountry when something major breaks.  So, it's time to get a replacement.

Regarding my 2004's issues and future -- Currently most all of the functions on the computer screen can be accessed in more than one way; so, it's still safe to drive.  Also, these are all known points of breakage for the 2nd Gen Prii and have fixes.  So, someone who is good with assembling and fixing computers will likely have the necessary skills.  My son-in-law has those skills and needs a high MPG car for running about his small town; so, he's inheriting my '04.  It does my heart good to keep it in the family.  Who knows, maybe my 14yo grandson will learn to drive in it.

When I was originally thinking of replacing my '04 Prius, I strongly considered a larger vehicle.  If you are interested in that discussion, you can read this thread.  As I considered my options and did more research, I decided I would focus on replacing my '04 with one of these possibilities -- another Prius, a Prius V (small station wagon), or a RAV4 hybrid.

In the thread cited above, I said I would start a new thread to share what I found out about those 3 replacement options when I went to the dealership -- features, dimensions, test drives, etc.  So, that's the purpose of this thread.  I wanted to start out with some background first in this OP.  My next post will be the text of the email I sent to the salesman regarding both my required and desired features of my replacement vehicle.
 
Here is what I sent to the salesman before my appointment:

Hybrid Options considered, in order of liklihood
Prius Liftback
Prius V
RAV4

All Required
2015 or newer
Under 30K miles
White exterior
High MPG, hybrid, >= 40 combined
Proven dependable model 
Hatchback/liftback, 5-door
Large length and width under hatch with back seats down (more important than cubic feet storage)
Large flat area when back seats are down (like '04 Prius)
Cruise control
Security system
Great safety rating/features
Make sure that there are tires that are 4-6 ply tires available for model (don't need to be on car now)

Prefer, in order of importance
Used, previously owned
Remote start
Moon roof (that opens)
Higher ground clearance than '04 Prius
Fabric (not leather) seats
Heavily tinted back windows
Window awnings
Heavy duty floor liners (especially drivers)
LED head/tail lights
USB ports (charging electronics), front and back
LED interior lights

Question:
If certified used, is it covered in Canada?  This is where I'll be traveling for the next 2 summers -- National Parks, Artic Circle.

Once I got there, I had another list of questions that I either used my measuring tape to answer, or asked the salesman, including -- inside height behind driver's seat, length/width under hatch, MPG, maximum payload, ground clearance. This information, plus more will follow in the next post.
 
Here is a spreadsheet that I put together of my measurements and notes from my day of car shopping.  Most of the detail is about a 2015 Prius Liftback (most similar to my current car) and a 2015 Prius V.  I also looked at a RAV4 hybrid but quickly ruled it out for several reasons -- MPG too low, hump in the back where my mattress lays, about the same size under the hatch as the Prius, more expensive.

BuyCarMay2017.jpg

When I test drove the Liftback and the V, both handled very similarly. The Liftback was more responsive than the V, which had a noticeable lag when pressing the accelerator.

Also, I did look at a brand new 2017, Generation 4, Prius Liftback and found that the back seats do not lay flat, which was an immediate deal breaker for me.  If you are the type that likes sitting in a lounging position when you sleep, then it would be a good choice for you.

As for trying to figure out which car I should buy, it was neck and neck competition between the Liftback and the V. 

My next post will share what ended up being the tie breaker.
 

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The salesman was very patient with me. My appointment was at 9am, and we took a lunch break at 1pm. At that time, I couldn't figure out which vehicle was the best fit.

One of my requirements was that there are 4-6 ply tires available for which ever car I purchase. This is the recommendation from Canada's DOT for driving their gravel roads in the north. So, I used my lunch break to call Les Schawb, a west coast tire store that is known for good customer service.

I learned the following:
- low profile tires are not as forgiving as regular tires (i.e., tires on Prius V are more likely to be damaged than those on the Liftback)
- about all tires used today are at least 4 ply,
- no 6 ply tires are available for either the Liftback or the V,
- "Run Flat" tires are available, but they have a stiffer ride, are extra expensive, have no warranty, and don't last very long,
- tires for extra load (stronger side wall) are made for both the Liftback and V -- 30% less expensive for Liftback, 25% longer warranty for Liftback.

The first and last points in the list directly above were the deciding factors that led me to choose the Prius Liftback over the Prius V.

My next and last post about this process will describe how this purchase is finishing up. I'll also give you the names and contact information of the individuals and places that were helpful during the buying process.
 
Fantastic narrative, Suanne, thanks so much! I think if I were traveling solo I'd consider a Prius in a heartbeat, such a quality choice.
 
I probably should also say, for those that may not know, that Toyota Hybrids are like a generator on wheels.  So, it efficiently replaces a solar panel system for charging my electronics.  In addition, Toyota Hybrids will efficiently run their AC overnight (off the high-voltage batteries) when it's hot and humid and difficult to sleep.

Added to my purchase:  For safety, I wanted a security system installed where an alarm goes off if there's an attempt to break the glass.  Also, my guilty pleasure, I wanted a remote start installed.  In my current Prius, if I want to warm the car up first thing in those freezing mornings, I have to get out of bed, reach into the driver's area and press the brake down with my hiking stick while also pressing the Start Button on the dash.   With a remote start, I can warm the inside of the car up with the push of a button before I get out of bed.  It'll be heaven :) .    I expect this work to be completed on Wednesday.  So, I'm still waiting to get my new steed.

Price negotiations, like the whole buying process, was low key.  We agreed to a price that felt fair.  In addition, Toyota Finance was offering 0% financing, at 36 months.  I chose this because my credit rating has taken a significant hit since the divorce.  It'll be a chance to build it back up with no additional cost in interest.  I'll find out later this week if I've been approved.  

Michael's Toyota of Bellevue (highest volume sales in a multi-state region), (425) 455-9500
Salesman:  Ian Jacobs (young, patient, no pressure, respectful)
Finance:  Bob Villa (very knowledgeable about Prius/hybrid technologies)

Bellevue Les Schawb Tires: Joe, (425) 455-0407

And that's the end of this lengthy summary.  If there's anything else that happens related to this purchase, I'll add to this thread.
 
Appreciate all the details and breakdowns. Much love.
 
This should be a sticky.  There are a lot of questions about how to buy a dwelling vehicle.  This answers most of them.
 
Suanne got a new rig ! waaaaaaahhhhh hoooooooooo.
 
First off, let me say that Suanne's detailed explanations about solo Prius living are the reason that I have not taken the van plunge, and am willing to deal (for a while longer) with the much smaller space inside my own Prius while on extended road trips. Since the perfect combination of Prius efficiency and at least minivan room does not exist, I am choosing economics over comfort.

Next, she, Brent and a few others (I don't do Facebook so cannot access the Prius group) have kept me going with ideas about converting my particular model. I also learned that model/generation changes like the older gen 2 Prius liftback and my gen 3 are not alike when it comes to the seats being able to lay flat, but I deal with it. I thought that Brent's gen 2 would be the same as my gen 3 and couldn't figure out why I was unable to make mine work!  Duhh.

So the new build that she is about to make will give me a "fly on the wall" view of what and how to configure my own vehicle for the hopefully next summer trip to Alaska. Tire choices are important because any replacement of the low rolling resistance (LRR) tires does affect economy. I had put on "regular" all seasons, in an effort to save the cost, and found within 20 miles that I lost about 15 mpg (per my computer), so immediately back I went and paid the extra for the LRR set. I will say that I am surprised to hear the LS salesperson say that all tires are 4 ply, I'm pretty sure they are not, 4 ply "rated" maybe...

So again, thanks Suzanne for the detailed responses, spreadsheet (is there an engineer living inside you?) and reasoning you have shared. 

+1 on your rating girl!   :D

TWIH
 
Hi Suanne,

Were you able to measure the actual ground clearance on the RAV4 Hybrid? I see 6.1in for the regular and 7in for the Hybrid, but I've also see 6.3 mentioned elsewhere:

https://www.toyota.com/rav4/features/dimensions/4430/4440/4444/4470

Granted you are gaining some ground clearance in this new model Prius, but how much did ground clearance factor in? I'm seriously considering the RAV4 Hybrid, not for the AWD system (it's more or less useless in back country), but for the sheer ground clearance.
 
Some figures on the RAV4 Hybrid:


-Max length, rear hatch to front seat all the way forward (front seatback not inclined, just at regular upright position): Approx 80in. Since the back hatch curves, you have a little less length at the edge of the car and a little more towards the middle.
-Width of hatch:
min: 42in (at wheels)
max: 52in
-Width of the seatbacks (max measurement)
60part: 29"
40part: 19"

From what I can tell, you are a resourceful person who likes to be off the beaten path so I am sure what I have to say will not be an obstacle for you, but just things you will need to work out:
1) As already stated the hatch area and folded seat back is not completely flat. Towards the back of the hatch (well actually towards the front of the vehicle if you know what I mean) there is a hump for what more looks like an area to allow for air flow/circulation to cool the batteries. After all its not like there are batteries immediately under those couple of inches under the hump.
2) Although you have 80" of total length there is a large area between the top of the folded seatback to the front seat that is unsupported in space. So you would have to put something there to support your head/shoulders or feet, depending upon which way you want to sleep.
 
More measurements I've found with the RAV4 Hybrid:
Here's my measurements for height in the cargo area of my '16 rav4h.
With rear seats folded down:

Top of the rear seats to ceiling: 24 inches
Cargo floor to ceiling farthest rear area: 33 inches 
 
AntiGroundhogDay said:
Were you able to measure the actual ground clearance on the RAV4 Hybrid?  ...
I didn't physically measure ground clearance on any of the vehicles I checked out.  I depended on the salesman's knowledge.
 
Sueanne,

Excellent analysis that will help many others and congrats on your new Prius.

What color do I look for?

Brent
 
Suanne, you're from Rainyville too? Didn't know that. Well play time is coming so enjoy your new ride!
 
Suanne said:
Still white ... Pearl White now instead of Super White ... white exterior was a requirement for me. (to reflect the SW heat).


Ah great - I remember my Prius friends by their color of Prius. No change!
 
I got my new-to-me car today.  Pic shows new 2015 in front of my trusty 2004.  

20170601_144313.jpg
 

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