Auxiliary electrical power for car

Right or wrong I’ve done two things that normally require electric
I idle with AC on in my Camry, hours a day.
And I eat out
So I don’t need refrigerator. So two big sources for power , I bypass.

I may want to heat at some point - but since heat is thirsty for power- let’s put heat on the back burner if this thread. If I can have extra heat , without anything impractical you can bring that up.

What I DO want, is highly reliable power for my 110 volt professional keyboard.
I want next to zero possibility that Eg my going for a less expensive provider of electricity for the keyboard - will possibly bite me in the butt when I least expect it.
In other words I’m NOT looking to save money on this purchase
The keyboard is very expensive and valuable. It’s safety is important.
So I don’t care the cost - don’t want to cut corners.
- I want rock solid stable safe power for a low demand keyboard
No Amps , just headphones

- Power for my electric shaver iPad iPhone stuff like that… no big deal right ?

- Also a solid reliable lithium car battery charger. That perhaps has other inputs.

- And finally, less likely but maybe electric heat !!

Thank you
Ps entering my third month of car living .

vanvanvanvan123 said:

Right or wrong I’ve done two things that normally require electric
I idle with AC on in my Camry, hours a day.
And I eat out
So I don’t need refrigerator. So two big sources for power , I bypass.

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Since you idle for hours, you'd be well served to buy an inverter that can charge most of your devices while you're using the engine anyways.

vanvanvanvan123 said:

I may want to heat at some point - but since heat is thirsty for power- let’s put heat on the back burner if this thread. If I can have extra heat , without anything impractical you can bring that up.

What I DO want, is highly reliable power for my 110 volt professional keyboard.
I want next to zero possibility that Eg my going for a less expensive provider of electricity for the keyboard - will possibly bite me in the butt when I least expect it.
In other words I’m NOT looking to save money on this purchase
The keyboard is very expensive and valuable. It’s safety is important.
So I don’t care the cost - don’t want to cut corners.
- I want rock solid stable safe power for a low demand keyboard
No Amps , just headphones

- Power for my electric shaver iPad iPhone stuff like that… no big deal right ?

Click to expand...

I have one of these. It is small enough to fit into a plastic shopping bag sitting flat, for size reference. It can also be charged while you are idling for hours.

SPECSTAR 500W 78000mAh 288WH Portable Power Station with LED Light, Battery Generator with AC DC USB Outlets and Solar Charging Interface for Emergencies Outdoors, Solar Panel Not Included https://a.co/d/4yS2JxR

Again, since you're using the gas anyways, you might as well use it for many proposes.
Tell us model and/or power draw for your keyboard. They would help immensely in calculating your needs. The above pack might be plenty for your needs, or not enough depending on the keyboard power draw.

Bonus of spending a little more for a larger battery would be the ability to get a small 12v fridge in the future if you decided you want one.

Also in a small space, the fridge output can warm the car a little.

vanvanvanvan123 said:

- Also a solid reliable lithium car battery charger. That perhaps has other inputs.

Click to expand...

I have had Gooloo lithium jump starters and they are great. Highly recommended. Do yourself a favor though. Even though it can be used for many things, it's an emergency device. Don't use it for other things. Here's a link to one.

GOOLOO GP2000 Jump Starter 2000A Peak Car Starter for Up to 9L Gas or 7L Diesel Engine SuperSafe 12V Jump Box Auto Lithium Battery Booster Portable Power Pack with USB Quick Charge, Type-C Port https://a.co/d/fcJr8j4

vanvanvanvan123 said:

- And finally, less likely but maybe electric heat !!

Thank you
Ps entering my third month of car living .

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Heat might be best handled with 12v mattress heaters or electric blanket. Or having a fridge as mentioned above ironically.

vanvanvanvan123 said:

Right or wrong I’ve done two things that normally require electric
I idle with AC on in my Camry, hours a day.....
What I DO want, is highly reliable power for my 110 volt professional keyboard.
- Power for my electric shaver iPad iPhone stuff like that… no big deal right ?

Click to expand...

If you are willing to idle for AC why not for heat?
And while idling you can charge your iPad, iPhone, and other electronics (get a chargeable shaver).

As for the keyboard, get a high quality pure sine wave inverter with about twice the capacity of your keyboard draw (the keyboard label should tell you how many watts it takes).

One thing I would recommend: get an hour meter for you motor.
Since you are idling so much you should be doing maintenance based on how many hours it runs not milage.

If you're idling your car for hours per day, wouldn't it be better to put all that wear and tear on a generator engine? They're designed for that, and gas generators are inexpensive. They're also to cheaper to operate, maintain (and when necessary repair) than your car engine.

Not sure he has the space or ability since he's in a car and in the city.

afblangley said:

If you're idling your car for hours per day, wouldn't it be better to put all that wear and tear on a generator engine? They're designed for that, and gas generators are inexpensive. They're also to cheaper to operate, maintain (and when necessary repair) than your car engine.

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thank you “yes, but”. you lose stealth .
you attract attention
how much knowledge do you ( or anyone here ) have about the car engine?
i was told to change oil at 3000 miles instead of 5000
someone suggested a temp gauge. maybe with a warning when water reaches a certain temp .

i’ve found out harbor freight doesn’t sell the inverters that plug in cigarette lighter
they have the kind that attach to car battery under the hood

maybe there is a limitation with the cigarette lighter variety of inverters ?

i have the money for a “good one” .

staying cool with AC seems to be an addiction with me

humidity has been unreal here .

i have found a place to play keyboard
but i want a reliable stable strong inverter that can power ( one at a time ) a portable car vac. shaver , computer laptop
is max power the direction , or is there such a thing as too much electrical power for these applications ?
thanks

keyboard in car is off the bucket list

Many people here buy a Prius as they are basically an electric car (with a large and a small battery) and fairly spacious if you remove the extra seats. The Prius can be left to control the interior temperature at a set temperature. Cooling is no problem other than occasionally the gasoline engine starts itself to charge the batteries when they get below a certain voltage. It will do heating also but not as efficiently as using an added on inverter and a 120 volt ceramic heater. There is an easy way to add up to a 1500 watt inverter to the small battery and a more difficult way to add up to a 3,000 watt inverter to the big battery. You can get everything you need simply by trading vehicles! Miles are not a good indicator of when to change oil when idling excessively. Most manufacturers require oil changes every six months regardless of mileage. You can have an oil sample tested your next oil change to let you know if you need to change the oil more often which would be a good idea. In cold weather I would consider changing oil much more often if idling every day. In hot weather at least every 3 months. This is just my opinion and educated guess but testing a sample will tell you for sure.

Cigarette lighter inverters are capped at around 150w, most in the 75w-95w range. The limiting factor is the wire feeding the plug. It can't handle a larger draw without blowing the fuse.

bullfrog said:

Many people here buy a Prius as they are basically an electric car (with a large and a small battery) and fairly spacious if you remove the extra seats. The Prius can be left to control the interior temperature at a set temperature. Cooling is no problem other than occasionally the gasoline engine starts itself to charge the batteries when they get below a certain voltage. It will do heating also but not as efficiently as using an added on inverter and a 120 volt ceramic heater. There is an easy way to add up to a 1500 watt inverter to the small battery and a more difficult way to add up to a 3,000 watt inverter to the big battery. You can get everything you need simply by trading vehicles! Miles are not a good indicator of when to change oil when idling excessively. Most manufacturers require oil changes every six months regardless of mileage. You can have an oil sample tested your next oil change to let you know if you need to change the oil more often which would be a good idea. In cold weather I would consider changing oil much more often if idling every day. In hot weather at least every 3 months. This is just my opinion and educated guess but testing a sample will tell you for sure.

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ok. without a trade to a prius
with the wattage limitation
i am guessing the car vac is a no go
i can just use the vac locally

charging a phone is no problem

i’m an adaptable guy i’ve been a working musician over half a century. that’s adaptability !
thanks for insights
my 2017 camry has about 47,000 miles
what kind of a prius ( trade ) are we talking about ( mileage. year etc ) ?
thank you

You have a very desirable car that is very low mileage but idling for extended periods is considered extreme usage. If your Camry is paid for and has a clear title it probably books for about the same price as a 2017 Prius with a few more miles on it, say 60,000 miles.

You need wiring, plug fuse and socket and possibly a switch all rated for 15 amps. Plus a small inverter that comes prewired for a 12v accessory outlet.

The 12v outlets in newer vehicles are no longer referred to as “cigarette lighters”. They are not even the same diameter as a cigarette lighter from years past. They are now called accessory outlets and are not meant for heavy current loads. Their present, primary, intended use is for charging cell phones and GPS devices. Many of them are only rated for 10amps max.

Look at your owners manual and find out how many amps your 12v accessory plug is rated for. Then calculate how many watts it can safely be used for.

I power my laptop with a 12v charger that was made to be used with the laptop model I own.

My car vac is recharged with USB no problems getting it to charge from a 10amp accessory plug circuit. I am not trying to clean a big van on a single charge. Just divide the vehicle into sections for cleaning sessions instead of doing one long vacuum the whole thing at once.

As to your keyboard, if that is what you want then you should get a house battery, solar panel and perhaps stick to playing while the sun is shining. You can compromise. Van living always involve either compromise or else putting time and money into purchasing equipment to solve your energy needs. Most often it involves doing both compromise plus equipment.

Do yourself a huge favor and let me know the keyboard model please. The keyboard itself runs on DC, it's just a matter of knowing the model and you can eliminate the inverter for the keyboard altogether. Car vac get a rechargeable one. You're overthinking and overcomplicating things.

Prius would be a good move, but don't expect a straight trade for a 2017 for your Camry. You're in SD and hybrids are in demand due to gas prices. You can still get one. Just plan it out.

Oh and yes I know how this sounds. But nobody knows you idle the Camry for hours. Anyone looking at it will only go by miles unless you tell them you'd prefer to get less for your vehicle. Just make sure to do your part with oil and fluid changes.

afblangley said:

If you're idling your car for hours per day, wouldn't it be better to put all that wear and tear on a generator engine? They're designed for that, and gas generators are inexpensive. They're also to cheaper to operate, maintain (and when necessary repair) than your car engine.

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ok you’ve got my attention
( that’s Groucho Marx in case you’re young )
running a tiny gas engine generator for electricity ?
noisy ? smell of noxious fumes,
destroys stealth ?
please counter-argue these points , as i would love to spare my poor camry 4 banger by finding an alternative generator !
let me know

I am not pro generator. Like all internal combustion engines, generators are loud, smelly, and require regular maintenance. I was only advocating use of it in lieu of idling the vehicle engine. Generators are the most economical way to generate a large amount of electricity. An admittedly extreme example: my Onan can power a French door fridge, 3 AC units and miscellaneous other stuff for several hours on one gallon of diesel. Idling the vehicle's engine would be much more expensive immediately and in the long term.

With lessor power demand, other options become feasible. Using the vehicle alternator is seamless and convenient. So long as its done in a way that doesn't harm the vehicle. Driving is much better for the engine than idling. I purchased a large power station (Ecoflow Delta Pro) based on its ability to be rapidly recharged by driving. I typically use 500-750Wh per day. If the inverter connected to my starter battery recharges my power station at 900W per hour, I only need drive 15-30 min a day. Based on my usage, a full charge will last 4-6 days, so I basically need to drive 3-4 hours per week, a low threshold for me.

Heating: I tried out 3 different electric space heaters last winter getting through cold nights in the van. All of them used a tremendous amount of power and were only practical when plugged into shore power. I'm preparing for this winter by putting in a diesel heater. It appears to have a very low power draw, but I don't have enough experience to comment definitively.

afblangley said:

I am not pro generator. Like all internal combustion engines, generators are loud, smelly, and require regular maintenance. I was only advocating use of it in lieu of idling the vehicle engine. Generators are the most economical way to generate a large amount of electricity. An admittedly extreme example: my Onan can power a French door fridge, 3 AC units and miscellaneous other stuff for several hours on one gallon of diesel. Idling the vehicle's engine would be much more expensive immediately and in the long term.

With lessor power demand, other options become feasible. Using the vehicle alternator is seamless and convenient. So long as its done in a way that doesn't harm the vehicle. Driving is much better for the engine than idling. I purchased a large power station (Ecoflow Delta Pro) based on its ability to be rapidly recharged by driving. I typically use 500-750Wh per day. If the inverter connected to my starter battery recharges my power station at 900W per hour, I only need drive 15-30 min a day. Based on my usage, a full charge will last 4-6 days, so I basically need to drive 3-4 hours per week, a low threshold for me.

Heating: I tried out 3 different electric space heaters last winter getting through cold nights in the van. All of them used a tremendous amount of power and were only practical when plugged into shore power. I'm preparing for this winter by putting in a diesel heater. It appears to have a very low power draw, but I don't have enough experience to comment definitively.

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thank you thank you
now, though i am strong in my field ( music ) i am very slow to pick up on electrics batteries etc. please bear with me in that regard.

if i am not buying a prius for the foreseeable future :
it sounds like you are saying
a) driving is far better for the engine than idling
b) using the camry’s alternator is the way to go ( im not holding you responsible for anything you suggest !)
c) eco flow delta pro would be a device that would help me

when time avails. could you give more details but as if i had an 80 IQ

anything electrical , im very slow with .
in contrast, as a little kid, i was very sharp with Chemistry ! wonders and contradictions never cease !
thank you again

The Prius is basically a very efficient and fairly quiet generator that you can drive around. Air conditioning is built in the vehicle as well as heat but more efficient heat (which runs the gasoline engine less) can be done with as simple a hook up as two alligator clips on the small easy to get to starter battery and a cheap ceramic heater. There is lots of information an YouTube and groups of Prius owners should you need help. There is also a hybrid version of the Toyota Camry but I assume yours is not one as they are not as common and support/information about living in them is scarce but might be considered. The Prius with it’s rear open area probably has more usable space.

A video is worth a thousand words. Here is a short but complete video about the concept. I couldn’t explain it any better:

My setup is similar to what's shown in that video, except that I don’t have a Promaster or Bluetti. Ecoflow is renown for their super fast charging capability from a 110V source, hence my motivation for charging it using an inverter. I have an Ampeak 1200W inverter. Most of the time it is off. It's only used to charge the Delta, and I only charge the Delta when necessary. So I don’t have a remote switch, I consciously turn it on/off.

The key to success is knowing and staying within the limits of the vehicle’s charging system. MB recommends drawing no more than 80A from the alternator. I know from experience that my vehicle gives an alert when the alternator/starter battery is stressed. So I throttle down the Delta’s draw to < 900W. This is still plenty fast (twice the speed of Bluetti).

This video is closest (vehicle and power station) to my install:

The Promaster, Transit, and Sprinter have their starter battery in the floor or under the seat. But I'm guessing the Camry doesn't, so an installation of this kind is probably a little more complicated. There are YT videos showing installations from a battery under the hood, through the firewall, and to an inverter inside the vehicle. Let me know if you want more links.

All the Ecoflow LiFePO4 power stations come with a 5 year factory warranty. FYI, Costco has the best price ($2850) that I've seen for the Delta Pro. If that's overkill for your needs, the just released Delta 2, is the best midsized power station, period. Nothing else currently on the market comes close.

vanvanvanvan123 said:

maybe there is a limitation with the cigarette lighter variety of inverters...I want a reliable stable strong inverter that can power ( one at a time ) a portable car vac. shaver , computer laptop
is max power the direction , or is there such a thing as too much electrical power for these applications ?
thanks

Click to expand...

.
a)
Generally, the fuse for an automotive power outlet is the limiter.
Generally, the fuse tends to be about 10 (ten) amps.
Accordingly, their wires are skinny.
.
An inverter wired to the bank uses a fuse near the POSITIVE terminal of the bank.
Cable size -- and hence, fuse size -- is determined by inverter size.
Example:
* a 400-Watt inverter requires a much smaller cable (and fuse)...
... than a
* 4,000-Watt inverter with massive cables (and fuse).
.
Another factor is idle draw.
Without turning it OFF:
* a 400-Watt inverter may suck a fraction of an amp between actively operating your 120vac tools.
* an idle 4,000-Watt inverter has the potential to drain the bank.
.
Apparently, an inverter idles to stay willing-n-able warm-n-ready to perform.
Without idling, the inverter could take a moment to power-up, resulting in complaints to Customer Service.
And we can't have that.
.
A note:
You may substitute 'circuit-breaker' for 'fuse' in most applications.
I do.
.
Another note:
At some vague point, 'wire' becomes 'cable'.
I think it has something to do with reluctance to releasing the factory-installed smoke... but this's just a guess.
.
.
b)
How are you defining 'too much power'?
.
I think a 4,000-Watt inverter produces more juice than your three appliances require.
.
An aside:
Vacuuming while shaving.
Video, please!
Bonus Points for whistling...
Double Bonus Points for tap-dancing while whistling...
.
.
c)
Our vacuum is a DeWalt HEPA hybrid, 12v battery or 120vac plug-in.
We prefer the battery solution because they are charged 24/7/360° by one of our several 750-Watt automotive inverters.
No need to reach over and interrupt the repose of a relaxing inverter.
They earned their rest.
.
.
An aside:
Several mid-range inverters instead of a single yuge?
We prefer redundancy, we prefer portable, we prefer modular.
.
Our opinion is based on decades of replacing RecreateVehicle and automotive rubbish... while stranded.
.
Irregardless, any 750-Watt inverter should satisfy you.
Verify your pull on the vac, it might require a 1,000-Watt inverter at hardly any additional cost.
.
Irregardless, any time we are not charging our shaver or batteries, we switch the inverter to OFF and unplug it.
Belt plus suspenders.
Superstitious that way.