Insulation?

If I choose not the insulate a cargo van at least not in the first year as I intend to follow good weather what would I do with the walls? Do others paint them or just leave as is? I could not find any pictures or anyone doing what I suggested. I am hoping to van around the first year and then decide how or what I want to do with the van. I am used to backpacking so roughing it would not be a problem for me.

wolfyat25 said:

If I choose not the insulate a cargo van at least not in the first year as I intend to follow good weather what would I do with the walls? Do others paint them or just leave as is? I could not find any pictures or anyone doing what I suggested. I am hoping to van around the first year and then decide how or what I want to do with the van. I am used to backpacking so roughing it would not be a problem for me.

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I didn't insulate my cargo van, it's just the bare metal as it came from the factory. I'm not opposed to adding insulation, just haven't found the need for it. Factors -

1) if insulation is improperly applied, you could wind up making pockets for moisture to accumulate against the metal skin of the van, and I'm paranoid about rust.

2) Seemed like a lot of work and effort for not much benefit. Because of physics - https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/100280/surface-area-volume-and-its-relation-with-heat

3) Every inch is precious in a van. Losing 2 or 3 inches in either van width or height does make a difference in how the van "lives".

If I was spending a lot of time in truly cold weather, my calculus would change. I do fine down into the high 20s with enough bedding. But people are different, and I am often more comfortable than others when the weather turns cool.

There's no way I would own a van without super insulation, that delays the entry or hot or cold weather.

Would you live in a house without insulation? I did way back in the 50's and we about froze to death.

But, it's not my van...

wolfyat25 said:

If I choose not the insulate a cargo van at least not in the first year as I intend to follow good weather what would I do with the walls? Do others paint them or just leave as is?

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Saw this video a few years ago. A couple living in a van in Canada with no insulation; just spray on bed liner (jump to 5:30):

Camper said:

There's no way I would own a van without super insulation, that delays the entry or hot or cold weather.

Would you live in a house without insulation? I did way back in the 50's and we about froze to death.

But, it's not my van...

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Bob Wells says do not insulate if you will only be dealing with a hot climate. He gave Florida as an example.

I used three times as much propane in my cargo trailer last winter when camping, until I got it insulated.

I'll keep my insulation.

Camper, I said, "Bob Wells says do not insulate if you will only be dealing with a hot climate."

He explained why. And, he said you should insulate if you mostly camp/live in cold climate.

I thought you lived in Florida? Must have mixed you up

I don't care who said what. After living in my van over 4 years I'll tell you what I've been through:

1) No matter how hard you try, you will find yourself in inclement weather, sometimes for days. This is reality.

2) Heat saturation in a metal box is torture. The heat doesn't go away when the sun goes down. It dissipates overnight while you are trying to sleep. Nature always tries to balance things out.

3) Cold in the winter can be torture. It's the most likely time for condensation to build up and then everything is damp. If you don't air things out properly either by build or buy taking it out in the sun you will have mildew somewhere. I've had condensation dripping from my uninsulated ceiling.

4) Knowing that Reflectix isn't insulation, I put some test sections up in the ceiling anyway. There is a 10 degree difference. I welcome it.

These are my experiences. YMMV

Headache is right,,,,,
My first year in a Transit w/o insulation is exactly how Headache describes it...
The 2nd year I insulated with a product called "Thinsulate" with spray-on glue,,, and it is sooooo much better.
Look it up,,, you will thank yourself,,, maybe this year.... just sayin'

I suggest starting with only the amenities that you know you need/want. Then hit the road. As you gain experience you will learn what's important to you. My van does not have insulation, though as a passenger van the walls are covered. I've seen builds where the OEM panels are removed, insulation added and the panels reinstalled. I decided to hold off on doing that. One year and 40k miles later, it's not a pressing issue. Another example, my van doesn't have solar. Based on my use case, I will never install solar.

On the flip side, there are things that I didn't think would be important but learned they were. I underestimated how essential a parking heater was to comfortablity. A diesel heater will be installed this fall. Another example, I miss not having hot water and I want shower capability. I'm addressing those issues right now.

When it comes to vehicle builds, there are very few across the board/absolute answers. It almost always boils down to what's important to you and what's your use case. Which is why there's no substitute for personal experience.

Just remember that whatever you decide to do to the walls might have to be undone once you do decide to put insulation in.
I am pretty lazy and don’t like doing that sort of thing multiple times.

I have had my van for over a year and I have not insulated the walls, they are factory bare. Yes, on really cold nights I get condensation on my roof. When I was initally testing out the van, I recall waking up around 3 in the morning and finding ice crystals on the roof because it was 20 degrees outside. During my travels last May I hit a heat wave and the day time temps were nearly 100 and the night temp was around 75. My van is always within 3-4 degrees of the outside tempature. I installed a roof vent and window to help me balance the tempatures and humidity. It was uncomfortalbe, but bearable. Then again, I am not trying to make my van a house......it's my camper.

Insulation does one thing, it separates the two tempatures.......outside and inside. If you heat the inside of your van, the insulation will slow down the heat loss and vice/versa if you try to cool your van. My van does not have either systems, I plan my travels based on comfortable temps. Sometimes you get a mositure build up inside your van and sometimes insulation traps this moister and prevents it from drying out and you get mold. I have seen this in RV's as well as vans.

Wolfyat25, you don't tell us if you plan to install a heating system and/or cooling system. If you do, insulation will help those systems but watch for moisture buildups.

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Great discussion! We decided not to spend too much time, energy and money on insulation on our e350 passenger van. We wanted to keep the windows and plan to follow good weather as much as we can. We have our backpacking sleeping bags for really cold nights and our maxxair ceiling fan works GREAT when it is hot outside. We had no trouble with midwestern heat during our summer shakedown trip. We did add reflectix to the back of our ceiling paneling, leaving a 1 inch(ish) air gap between it and the metal roof. Not sure if that helped any, but so far so good....

wolfyat25 said:

If I choose not the insulate a cargo van at least not in the first year as I intend to follow good weather what would I do with the walls? Do others paint them or just leave as is? I could not find any pictures or anyone doing what I suggested. I am hoping to van around the first year and then decide how or what I want to do with the van. I am used to backpacking so roughing it would not be a problem for me.

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Insulate Insulate Insulate! Do it now before there is too much in the way. The higher the R-factor the better, also reduces sound, You will not regret it.

Somewhere on Youtube there's a vanlife fella that left what one van wall as-is. Instead of insulating it he left a gap there, (I'd estimate that the gap was about 6") and put up a floor-to-ceiling wall/desk combo; If I recall correctly this wall also blocked part of his sliding door opening. He used the "gap" for storage, and stated that it (the wall) was also a bit insulating, it was especially good because it kept what ever wind seepage from around the side-door out.

The desk/prep area was on the interior of his living space. I saw the video years ago, and wouldn't know how to ferret it out right now.

I agree with super insulation. A little bit of insulation won't help much. I have about 3 inches of rtech foam insulation on the roof. It helps in both the winter and summer. Once I super insulated my van I no longer needed a heater in winter (lowest outside temp I seen is about 32f, inside of van is over 50f with no heater). In the summer my small swampcooler keeps the back of the van cool with less than 2 amps of power. Even without the swampcooler the insulated section rarely climbs over 100f, the front uninsulated section of van reaches 150f.
Without insulation if its 40 degrees outside, its 40 degrees inside your van, it was brutal living in those conditions, I needed 2 sleeping bags and some blankets on top of them. Temperatures above 50f, I didnt even need a sleeping bag.
Cargo van with bare metal walls would be the best for insulation, a hotglue gun would make quick work insulating it.

winter


summer

jonyjoe303 said:

I agree with super insulation. A little bit of insulation won't help much. I have about 3 inches of rtech foam insulation on the roof. It helps in both the winter and summer. Once I super insulated my van I no longer needed a heater in winter (lowest outside temp I seen is about 32f, inside of van is over 50f with no heater). In the summer my small swampcooler keeps the back of the van cool with less than 2 amps of power. Even without the swampcooler the insulated section rarely climbs over 100f, the front uninsulated section of van reaches 150f.
Without insulation if its 40 degrees outside, its 40 degrees inside your van, it was brutal living in those conditions, I needed 2 sleeping bags and some blankets on top of them. Temperatures above 50f, I didnt even need a sleeping bag.
Cargo van with bare metal walls would be the best for insulation, a hotglue gun would make quick work insulating it.

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See, this is where individual differences come into play. I am very comfortable sleeping at 40. Don't need the sleeping bag, my comforter and two blankies keep me toasty!

In the late 90s I had a Dodge cargo van without insulation on the ceiling or walls. It was very noisy to drive and sometimes condensation from the ceiling rained on my head. I did camp in it sometimes but was not van dwelling during that era.

If I knew then what I know now I would have used the same ceiling insulation as I put on my current fiberglass trailer's ceiling. It is often called Landau foam. It is closed cell EVA foam and it can be adhered to the metal with a high temp use contact cement. It is not a ridged foam. In years past it was applied to the exterior metal side of car roofs before they put on a layer of marine vinyl. Of them seen on Town Cars and Cadillacs. Out of style look now of course. But it is a great, sound deadening, insulator and does not grow mold, etc. Nice white color should you decide not to put up any other ceiling finishes. It comes in a variety of thicknesses, my ceiling insulation is 3/8" thick. You do not need it to be 3 inches thick to control condensation and noise or help stop the transfer of heat. They also use it inside boats for ceiling insulation under headliners. You can get it in an orange, colored, flame retardant version. It does not off gas fumes although contact cements do for at least a day or two.

Build tip: Water based adhesives are not suitable for joining 2 non absorbent materials together such as adhering insulating foams to steel or molded fiberglass surfaces such as the inside of a fiberglass, high top roof. At least one of the material surfaces has to be absorbent if you use water based adhesives. Example you can glue closed cell foam to wood with a water based adhesive but closed cell foam to steel needs a VOC or epoxy cure type of glue.

As to using hot glue in a vehicle to install insulation. Do not use hot glue for that. . When the metal surface of the van gets hot it will soften the hot glue and the material will come loose.

I have used a special type of hot glue now and again to rapidly tack things such as putting blocking in place while the primary adhesive such as a construction adhesive or epoxy cures. But that was an expensive, specialty hot melt made from polyurethane and it requires a special high temp heat gun to melt those sticks. PUR Hot Melt Adhesive is one of the best known brands of it. It is mainly used in commercial furniture factories. I used it in my vintage fiberglass trailer renovation to tack blocking onto the fiberglass shell walls until the thickened resin I put on the back of the blocking strips for the primary adhesive cured. That meant I could move quickly through the work without having to use a bunch of spring boards to put pressure on the blocking strips. The PUR adhesive gun and sticks are quite pricey, it is not at all cost effective to use it as a primary adhesive in a build or purchase them for a quick fix either. I had it already on hand from my former wood working business so it made sense to use it up instead of tossing it out when I hit the road. I also was given lots of epoxy resin by boat building friends who had that material leftover, another expensive build material.

Construction adhesive or contact cements are more affordable and sufficiently strong if made for high temperature situations such as adhering to metal roofs and walls in a vehicle.

jonyjoe303 said:

In the summer my small swampcooler keeps the back of the van cool with less than 2 amps of power.

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I've been thinking about trying out some kind of a swamp cooler or making one. Would you mind sharing what kind you have and where you got it.