Passenger van

New member here, looking to acquire a van for camping.
I notice that most of the Youtubers who show off their completed vans began with a cargo van,
but it seems to me that I'd have a big head start with a passenger van.
If I bought a cargo van, everything that needed doing in the cargo area would have to be done from scratch
(floor, walls, ceiling etc.) But if I bought, for example, an Econoline or Express that spent its first life
hauling commuters to their offices, the interior would already be in place -- headliner, plastic siding, carpet.
Just taking out the passenger seats, would make it ready for refitting. Then add a bed, storage,
a jackery, and curtains or panels to cover the windows at night, and there - a basic camper.
I should mention, I would use this van for camping, not as a home,
and for staying in National Forests, BLM lands, etc. (not interested in camping in a city).
And yet, cargo vans seem to predominate in the van-life world -- why is that?

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IMO it's because many cargo vans have better room to be able to either somewhat stand up or to stand up. Also many do not want all the windows. Probably less of a concern if you are just going camping and curtains will work fine. Windows are harder to insulate from the cold as opposed to insulated walls. Again, if you are only going to camp in warm weather that is less of a concern.

Windows are harder to insulate.

Also, the carpeting in passenger vans can be home to a lot of noxious stuff, like dirt, pollen, mold, pet dander, food spills, kid vomit, kid and pet urine... I'm pretty tough when it comes to stuff like that, but I helped a friend rip the carpet out of her conversion van, and I had to resort to a mask and goggles.

What's more, the air conditioning duct along the roof decreases headroom, and the auxiliary heater-A/C unit in the back takes up room and is a nuisance to remove.

^^Good points. Also, passenger vans have some kind of floor mounts for the second/third row seats, plus anchors for seat belts, etc. I assume that in some vans that could be more than just a hole where the bolt went through the floor. The chance of old carpet not being nasty is, IMO, slim. Last year I bought an old minivan (minivans are an even worse story about uneven floors, mounting hardware, and floor vents, lol) which had been owned by an older couple and kept fairly clean. But still, I cleaned the carpets - and when I camp in the van I put some clean area rugs down on the floor back there over the carpet. It's not worth pulling the carpet out for my intended uses, but if it had been less clean I might have done that.

My next vehicle purchase will be an actual cargo van, probably a small one. The idea of not having all that seat-related stuff to mess with in the back area, is heavenly!

Do you really want to lay down on that old carpet from who knows, that did whatever on it over the previous years? Also remember that a stock passenger van with interior plastic and headliner pretty much has zero insulation. Will it work? Sure. I think for your purposes, the passenger van will work great. But living in it for any extended time and in varying climates, the cargo vans have their huge advantages that others have already discussed. But I view it like remodeling an old house. You can try to save old plaster here and there. But in the end, it might have been easier to gut the whole thing and start your own thing from scratch. And you can easily do that with a cargo van.

Thanks for the comments, everyone!

Yes, I imagine a kid-hauler could have a lot of nasty crud in the carpet.
My idea was to acquire a retired vanpool van... hopefully the worst
that would be in the carpet would be coffee stains.

I saw a Youtube video by a woman in NJ who put down vinyl on top of the van's old carpet,
rather than tear it out and do the floor from scratch. Not sure if there's a downside to that,
but apparently it worked for her.

I don't suppose a stock passenger van has any insulation between the headliner and the roof?

One of the attractions of having windows would be to park in remote places
and leave the windows uncovered at night... it would be like sleeping in a transparent tent.

Carpet likes to absorb moisture. Don't think it's a good idea to have between two vapor barriers. Some headliners might have a layer of cardboard in/on it. It's better than nothing of course and will prevent condensation.

PlethoraOfGuns said:

Carpet likes to absorb moisture. Don't think it's a good idea to have between two vapor barriers. Some headliners might have a layer of cardboard in/on it. It's better than nothing of course and will prevent condensation.

Click to expand...

I'm not so certain of that. When my non-insulated van acquires condensation overnight, a couple of hours with an open door clears it right up. I know there are no hidden areas of condensation. 

I once had a roof leak in a passenger vehicle. I only discovered it when the headliner became so sodden that water started to drip (the color of the liner hardly changed at all even though it was so wet.) Who knows how long that water had been accumulating, I sure don't.

We are campers, too--rarely more than a month at a time.  Ours is an old low top touring/upfitted/conversion van.  All the rear seats are now gone, but I actually use some of the seat belt connection points for hold downs.  Love, love the windows and interior trim.  When the time comes to replace it, I would choose a new one versus a cargo van if that option existed.

I have a 2002 Dodge Ram Van 3500 extended 15 passenger. All I did was remove the rear seats and left the carpeting which has insulation under it.

There is also insulation between the interior panels and the body of the van. I don't know if the headliner has insulation but it never gets cold. The windows can be ice cold and it stays nice and warm.



Is my van interior Instagram yuppie worthy? Nope. I also don't pay 8 bucks for a cup of coffee with a name I can't even pronounce. Yes, the carpet is getting on the grungy side. It could be cleaned if I were so inclined.

I've never had a problem with condensation. I always have good ventilation as 7 of my windows open including the driver and passenger front windows. I use a propane fueled Wave3 heater and I use it every night when I'm out west. I turn it off when I'm sleeping. Again, no problem with condensation.

Me, being the person who takes the path of least resistance when it comes to cosmetics, made removable window covers out of not one, but two layers of Reflectix. The inner layer stays relatively warm when I'm running the heat.

My roof is pretty well covered with solar panels and they deflect some of the heat from the direct sun.

The van does what I ask of it. I don't live in it full time but I was out 21 weeks last winter and 19 the winter before. I hope to be heading back out in December.

I call it the 'Big White Piece of Sh**' and it's starting to look like one. Needs paint

We bought a Chevy Express 12 Passenger van back in January.  We had been looking at both cargo and passenger vans, and finally found a passenger van that worked for us.  Initially, we just took out the seats and floor vinyl and constructed a floor of plywood over the existing (and difficult to remove) seat rails.  We already had a bed platform from a previous minivan camper and just tossed that in and added a sink/kitchen area and took off in it.  It allowed us to get on the road quickly.  We don't live full time in it.  

After spending a lot of time out in it over the past 6 months, we have pulled out the initial build stuff and taken out all the interior plastic and are insulating and building it out more thoroughly. We have recently installed a fan and are putting in an electrical system.  In hindsight, it would have been easier to rip it all out to start with when we first bought the van.  But, we don't have any regrets because we were able to get on the road so quickly and use it.  That also gave us a better sense of what we wanted in the layout.  

And since we are usually camping in remote areas, we like the extra windows of the passenger van.  We will likely cover up the back driver side window in our new build.

When I priced out vans it was about the same price to get a new cargo van with windows than to buy a few year old passenger van. Plus with a passenger van you would have to dispose of the seats somehow and if you want to insulate rip our the interior. I camped in my van before I built it and the only downside was the ribs on the floor made walking uncomfortable, but a slab of plywood solves that. You could probably also install windows in a used van cheaper than a passenger van, but I didn't price that out.

I'm currently pondering a van as a step up in size from the Sportage RV. I've seen several cargo vans with a variety of window formats such as just the rear windows or all the doors. I want lots of insulation and think starting with an empty cargo van seems to make the most sense. Better yet, some of those I've looked at have already had spray foam on the walls and ceiling. That's a good start. Then things get weird.

For about the same price there are cutaway box trucks for sale. The same cab, chassis and engine as the cargo van but big enough to stand up in, wide enough to build a bed across the end and 2-3 times as much space for the same length as an extended van. Most have access between the cab and the box. On top of all that, the walls are flat and the corners are square, which makes the conversion easier.

I imagine it consumes more fuel and drives a bit more like a truck. Many of them have dual wheels and are capable of pulling a trailer if that is part of the future.

What do others think?

I have an offer ($5000) out for a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan SE in good condition with relatively low mileage. It is a couple thousand miles away from me right now but I have driven it and it runs fine. Part of the offer is that it has to pass a mechanic's inspection. Is my offer wise? Has anyone built out a Grand Caravan?

Green-Is-Gold said:

New member here, looking to acquire a van for camping.
I notice that most of the Youtubers who show off their completed vans began with a cargo van,
but it seems to me that I'd have a big head start with a passenger van.
If I bought a cargo van, everything that needed doing in the cargo area would have to be done from scratch
(floor, walls, ceiling etc.) But if I bought, for example, an Econoline or Express that spent its first life
hauling commuters to their offices, the interior would already be in place -- headliner, plastic siding, carpet.
Just taking out the passenger seats, would make it ready for refitting. Then add a bed, storage,
a jackery, and curtains or panels to cover the windows at night, and there - a basic camper.
I should mention, I would use this van for camping, not as a home,
and for staying in National Forests, BLM lands, etc. (not interested in camping in a city).
And yet, cargo vans seem to predominate in the van-life world -- why is that?

Click to expand...

Windows are not your friend, for a few reasons:

(1) The build. It's FAR more complicated if you have windows to build around, especially if you expect to retain the functions of your windows (e.g. natural light, ventilation), or if you attempt the fool's errand that is "insulation". Nothing can be attached to or placed in front of windows (inside or outside), if you expect them to retain their design functions.

(2) Security. You can see out, but folks outside can also see in. Anything made of glass is easily broken to gain entry to your vehicle.

(3) Comfort. The more windows you have, the greater will be your rate of heat transfer. In the summertime, your vehicle will become an oven; in the wintertime, a deep-freeze. Oh, sure, you can TRY to block all the windows, but this strategy will make little or no difference, and therefore will be a waste of your time, effort, money and materials. Other mitigation measures (e.g. air conditioning, heating, vents) are expensive (anything involving heat is), take up valuable interior space, are subject to malfunction, and will produce marginal differences, at best.

(4) Privacy. Zero.

(5) Stealth value. Zero.

When I was parked at the south rim of the Grand Canyon looking out the 3-foot long window on the passenger side of my converted 15 passenger Dodge getting ready to take this picture, I was thinking the same thing!
Damn, this view of the Canyon really sucks! I could be staring at a solid wall!



To each their own

SLB_SA said:

I have an offer ($5000) out for a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan SE in good condition with relatively low mileage. It is a couple thousand miles away from me right now but I have driven it and it runs fine. Part of the offer is that it has to pass a mechanic's inspection. Is my offer wise? Has anyone built out a Grand Caravan?

Click to expand...

I purchased a 2020 chevy cargo van with the intent of living in it. My circumstances changed so that was not necessary. I have many times wished that I had started out with something simple and easy such as what your looking at. You can always upgrade later if your desire is to spend more time on the road. Every thing will be cheaper, gas, insurance etc. You can find many video's on youtube of build outs in Caravan type vehicles. Put information in search bar of youtube. Good luck on whatever your decision is. And yes, mechanic's inspection is a must.

Green-Is-Gold said:

. . . . it seems to me that I'd have a big head start with a passenger van. . . . (floor, walls, ceiling etc.)

Click to expand...

I bought a used passenger van, but tore all those "head start" items out, even the door covers. My reason was that I wanted really good insulation against winter cold, and couldn't get Havelock sheep's wool into all the nooks and crannies of ceiling, walls, and doors otherwise. I'm not sorry I did it; I'm so "toasty warm" now, even when it was 19F this past weekend overnight.

On the subject of staying warm, I recently bought this 12-volt mini electric blanket. WOW it's so wonderful! It only draws 1.3A from my house battery. So now I can save fuel by setting the furnace to 41F at night (to be sure no water freezes), and STILL be "toasty warm".

I bought a brand new passenger Sprinter to convert for the same reasons the original poster wrote. In addition, I wanted everything to be removable in case I wanted to use the space for cargo or people. I was going DIY, even though I have no construction skills and own only 3 tools (4 if you include the tape measure).

I removed all the seats and laid down a plywood floor, leaving one row of the OEM seat attachment hooks exposed so I could remove/install the bench seat at will. All the furniture attaches the plywood. It is a very simple build, took a week and $4k. But it has everything: real bed, couch, galley, microwave, toilet and EcoFlow DELTA.