Incident on the land I just bought. At a loss.

WanderingRose · Mar 23, 2021

SingleMamaRubberTrampin25 said:
I know that it doesn't matter. I am saying I disagree with their thoughts on it. It is to harass parents and make our lives more difficult than it needs to be. I get they think utilities are a necessity, but this society doesn't have a damn right to go telling people how to live. How did we survive happily before these amenities. Basically all laws that are created stem back to forcing people to spend money. Money is the root and cause of all evil. That's the truth. Caseworkers shouldn't have a right to deem a situation unfit based on stuff that does not harm a child mentally or physically.

I understand your feelings.

Child welfare laws in every state are not established by caseworkers, but at the state level where things that may be unconstitutional can and are challenged.

I’m truly sorry for your situation and your distress over it.

I’m just trying to help you manage it in a way that doesn’t make things worse.

Wherever you go in this country, living in your car with a small child is going to bring you to the attention of law enforcement and child welfare authorities.

Your contacts in these systems can also be tracked, and eventually get you in a real mess if you aren’t careful.

It’s one thing for you to choose to live in a viaduct, if you so choose, but when you bring your child with you the laws are going to be against you.

You don’t want to be separated from your child, who looks like a very happy and well cared for little guy. This would be traumatic for him and for you.

I wish you all the best, and encourage you not to do anything rash but to let the dust settle a bit while you’re in a safe place with your child.

Easier to see a path out then, in my experience.

mattvei · Mar 23, 2021

Verify your purchase was legit. Did you get an owner's title insurance policy? Very common scam to "sell" land you don't own. You can go to the local county recorder's office to research the title history (may be online as well) and see what shows up. If you'd like help doing that, PM me - no charge. If your ownership is legit, consider getting a restraining order on the guy. You can also get a trespass order on him. Just keep out of the way of CPS. They are their own Gods with great powers.

WanderingRose · Mar 23, 2021

CPS can remove your child, also law enforcement.

Be angry and upset, you’re entitled to that, but comply, comply, comply.

Malamute · Mar 23, 2021

Several points,...

WHY didnt you have your doors locked when loony boy came calling?

Id be sure the police talked to him and made sure he understands you can be there and he has to leave you alone. if you call in and ask for whoever handled the call they should be able to help you with that and find out from the responding officer. He may also be able to tell you the guys mental state and if you need to worry about him doing that again or if the guy chilled out.

Do you have any pepper spray?

Im a firm believer in dash cams, they arent all that expansive and can save your behind in so many ways. Having one, you could record the guys behavior. if he wasnt in direct line of the cam, you can move the cam. You can also get them with 2 cams, front and back. I modified my power point to be full time hot, not just when the vehicle was on and unplug it when I dont want or need it. I leave it run all night when at motels or at stores, at the least if someone broke in, it records audio as well as video, you could catch a voice.

The US aint perfect, but I havent heard of anywhere thats better so far.

txmnjim · Mar 23, 2021

SingleMamaRubberTrampin25 said:
I know that it doesn't matter. I am saying I disagree with their thoughts on it. It is to harass parents and make our lives more difficult than it needs to be. I get they think utilities are a necessity, but this society doesn't have a damn right to go telling people how to live. How did we survive happily before these amenities. Basically all laws that are created stem back to forcing people to spend money. Money is the root and cause of all evil. That's the truth. Caseworkers shouldn't have a right to deem a situation unfit based on stuff that does not harm a child mentally or physically. They get to play "god" and yank your kid and give them to people who will molest them, and actually abuse and neglect them. Its just wild and world I don't really want to live in. America is absolute garbage. I can't wait to leave this armpit of a country. But that's a while other topic.

well, i voted cut and run because i've been in a situation where a neighbor makes life miserable and this guy sounds like he is mental so probably not going to change. (i would have shot him as he came into my van, but he wouldn't have done that to a man i'm sure). it doesnt take a rocket scientists to figure out you do not have utilities and sanitation, and if you are there for awhile it won't be hard to see you aren't just camping. (i won't get into ethical questions of right/wrong of cps,etc but i have seen many terrible things done to children in my life, most by well-meaning parents, so i do think some entity should be watching out for them). i hope your situation works out and best of luck to you...
jim

jacqueg · Mar 23, 2021

Stay away for a while, until you feel calm.

this guy sounds like he is more than a little crazy, but IMO, he is not your largest problem. I think your largest problem is that you seem to have bought a piece of land - real estate contract or mortgage? your rights will differ - and are 1) planning to use it in contravention of land use ordinances and 2) live with your little boy in a old camper with no services, which, rightly or wrongly, is a red flag to every child protective services worker in the country, and you will be attracting their attention if you pursue formal action against your assaulter. Some of these workers may do their very best to help you tap into the resources you need to keep your child, some will consider you a bad person, but they must both obey the law, which is not in your favor.

I think you need to decide how many uphill battles you are able to fight at one time. I think you need an attorney to help sort out all the legalities of your situation, but if you don't have access to one? I think your best bet is to fade quickly and quietly back into the woodwork, for the sake of your child.

You've never talked here about your family and friends, but if there was ever a time to reach out, humble yourself, and ask for their help, now would be it.

crofter · Mar 23, 2021

Trespassing, third degree, $500 fine. Also put up no trespassing signs. Here is the link.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/arizona-law/arizona-criminal-trespass-laws.html

Any S&B situation will include neighbors and what they do. Fighting with your permanent neighbors is the worst. Putting up fences and no trespassing signs may help, but either way he is not a good neighbor, and you may not want to live next door.

Also I am interested to know if you have a title policy for the land (where land ownership records have been searched to verify ownership of the land). I looked at ads for those one acre lots also, now we know whats up there.
-crofter

bullfrog · Mar 23, 2021

If owning land is really what you want to do and the sellers have several parcels then trade for a more remote parcel but where you are at is really going to be a problem when it gets hot this summer. If this is a short term housing solution then rent someplace where there are at least some utilities like an RV lot. Either way seek help and see if local church or organization will help you find a place, try to work with authorities through local outreach organizations. Locals are your best bet at making this work. I have seen in the past a private RV space with water for less than $300 a month but there is plenty of BLM land and moving to cooler areas is probably necessary if you truly want to do it on your own. Maybe see about working a night audit shift for a motel or lodge which provides housing and allows you to watch your child while working or finding someone in a similar situation that you can share baby setting duties with allowing both of you to work to provide what is required for you and your child?

desert_sailing · Mar 23, 2021

A gun and a restraining order would be my first step. I also would be suing that POS for the trauma he is inflicting on your child.

It is very very easy to file and WIN a civil suit. If money is tight there are plenty of legal aid offices that help for free... But YOU can do it all on your own... It's that easy!

Often simply serving a lawsuit is enough to stop most bullies.

I'm really sorry that you had to deal with that particular demographic...but don't let that creature intimidate you into leaving.

You absolutely MUST be certain that all of your T's and I's are in order. Be sure you fully understand what the county allows and requires.

Take away your opponents ammo and then curb stomp em....(Metaphorically)

perhaps the land broker you purchased from has lots in neighboring Coconino county... Perhaps you could trade lots... I've seen that offer before by some of those brokerages.

Coconino is super cool in that they have a use " exemption" program.. that is essentially self certify and allows for a wide range of living arrangements.

https://www.coconino.az.gov/2173/Innovative-Materials-and-Systems-Pilot-P

That link is a good start if indeed you hop the county line. Coconino is the ONLY county in AZ I'd live in....I spent quite awhile discussing the alternative program with the head... She was awesome and very helpful.

In a society that values dollars over all else the best solution is to sue them.

Trade lots and sue him for harrassing you and recover that expense plus punitives

bullfrog · Mar 23, 2021

^^^Last I heard there was a movement to do away with the exemptions over a short time. Resale had become a real problem for the county I believe. Rumor was the individual doing septic inspections was the same guy that was loosing business installing septic systems, might be a problem!

MotorVation · Mar 23, 2021

I would have shot him when he opened my door. No hesitation. BTW, I met a dude in Florida who did 20 years for reaching into an occupied car

RoamerRV428 · Mar 23, 2021

wow so sorry it went like that for you, sending only good vibes to you

I couldn't vote on your poll. You didn't say what I would have done.

Breathe, relax, you are in your legal rights, you know your property zoning issues and are squared away on that----------so stay.

but I say STAY in one big manner, DO YOU REALLY want to stay? As in you like the area? Feel ok? Will do fine when weirdo overly protective of 'his living area' guy calms the hell down once he knows you own it?

so stay or sell fast or dump and run IF YOU want but if ya love it there, then yea stay there cause who knows how long it was up for sale, weirdo crazy guy could have been asked by other owners to 'watch the land' and he took that to heart and maybe had other run ins with people on the land before??? so weirdo guy does have a story but what he did to you is not ok obvy.

but what do you want? I think weirdo guy is over, cops understand and they know you are in the right and owner etc. so.....just go by your personal gut. Don't ask anyone else, this is WHEN YOU GO by your gut instincts and yours only.

wishing you the best!

travelaround · Mar 23, 2021

I would not want to live near this man. I'd do some research to see if he's safe to be around. If you decide to stay remember that good fences make good neighbors. I'd want a fence blocking my living areas from his sight. Meddlers are dangerous as are men who think they can bully young women.

Abrin · Mar 23, 2021

I am sorry I don't have any good advice to give you. I just wanted to leave a little comment to let you know that I am really sorry that you have to deal with such a scary situation. It is truly unfair.

maki2 · Mar 23, 2021

Go buy a dozen donuts and go to the local sheriffs office or whatever the agency was that showed uo and thank them for their service. Collect some cards with their contact phone numbers for emergencies and non emergencies. Do not engage in big discussion about tbe situation, just go introduce yourself and make friends within the community with all the various agenciies and authority figures. Show intentions for being a contributing member of the community. Get a library card. Drop into a local medical clinic, you need a doctor. Remember your and your child get a free annual wellness visit. A doctor can testify that your child is being well cared for should a question about that ever come up. Having taken the time to be sure you have a local doctor for you and your is part of the proof that you are a resonsible parent.

Going to the library for reading materials for your child is yet another proof of responsible parenthood. You have many opportunities within a community to prepare yourself for a defense against malicious bad mouthing by a cranky neighbor.

Making friends who will also be allies is good for you and it is also a good backup plan for emergency situations such as getting bullied.

But just as important you will lower your stress levels to know you are not out there totally on your own without friends and neighbors. As you develop your land and housing you will be needing help and supplies so work on those relationships with others as well. "It takes a village to raise a child" is a true statement. Avoiding people is not going to get you the community support you will need as a single parent.

JasonMcD · Mar 26, 2021

To hell with that guy. There is probably a good chance he had been squatting on that land himself, or using it illegally before you got there. He's probably been so used to it being vacant that he thought it was his. Definitely don't let him run you off from something you've invested money, time, and emotion into. Like others have said, the police now know that you're the legal owner of the land and the ball is in your court. It needs to be communicated to him somehow, so that if he tries to come back he has to do it knowing that HE is the one trespassing. If it gets worse, definitely get a restraining order. Start making friend with others in the community, there is a good chance they will already know him..and it also creates a circle of support for you to rely on should need arise.

flying kurbmaster · Mar 26, 2021

Maybe you should just talk to the guy ask him why he was so upset. Now that he knows you are legitimate he might apologize offer you a beer and be the best neighbour ever. Or not.

user 37446 · Mar 26, 2021

Katt said:
I completely understand what it's like to have kids and a-hole neighbors who try to wreck your life. You have the paperwork, so this guy can scream all he wants, but it doesn't seem like there's much he can do.

As far as CPS, WanderingRose has put out good advice IMO. See what resources are available and do your best to comply with the laws.

I know you feel violated. I completely understand this feeling. Not going to get into details, but I understand so much how this incident has tainted your feelings about this land. I stood my ground for 12 years with a neighbor directly across the street who called the town/village on us every chance she got for every little thing. There's more to it but I don't want to get into it here. It may be that this guy just doesn't want neighbors and he's trying to scare you off, and probably has done so to others before you. I would stand your ground, obey the laws and tell this guy to pound salt. Get security cameras if you can afford them. I am not against guns but would be nervous about having one with a kid in my care, so I don't know what to say about that. Check your local laws.

I wish you well and please keep us posted.

Restraining order and get him prosecuted the minute he violates it. You are doing what you can for you and your son. Don't back off of this. Maybe a pro-bono letter from an attorney who works with women?

user 37446 · Mar 26, 2021

B and C said:
You're running scared from a neighbor that has been used to not having a neighbor and has been treating you're land as his own. Just make absolutely positive that you were on your land.

I would gather a few friends to camp with. Let the police come and sort it out, you are just camping on your land with friends. You've already found out what CPS wants. When he finds out he is in the wrong, he should leave you alone as he has then made himself known to the authorities as a troublemaker. When you run it looks like you knew you were in the wrong and left.

Yeah I like that idea. Big friends too.

user 37446 · Mar 26, 2021

JasonMcD said:
To hell with that guy. There is probably a good chance he had been squatting on that land himself, or using it illegally before you got there. He's probably been so used to it being vacant that he thought it was his. Definitely don't let him run you off from something you've invested money, time, and emotion into. Like others have said, the police now know that you're the legal owner of the land and the ball is in your court. It needs to be communicated to him somehow, so that if he tries to come back he has to do it knowing that HE is the one trespassing. If it gets worse, definitely get a restraining order. Start making friend with others in the community, there is a good chance they will already know him..and it also creates a circle of support for you to rely on should need arise.

Definately this above.

Incident on the land I just bought. At a loss.

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