95 astrovan losing power after ~70 miles

Ella1 · Aug 13, 2015

A new fuel pump and filter, and relay switch were put on ~a week ago. The shop manager said he added a bottle of gas treatment to the tank also. ( I have a locking gas cap, but when I got gas I do nor remember if I locked it that time or not. I almost think I didn't. If it was locked, it means he lied to me.)

I drove to Bisbee yesterday, 87 miles away. The van started well and sounded good most of the time. Speed was generally 65 to 75 MPH. At about 77 miles, I started losing power.
Going at about 50--I had just left a road construction site, it started slowing. Even depressing the pedal, it would not increase speed. I decided to drive down--yes down, into Bisbee, not knowing if I would be able to climb out.
I sketched while waiting for my painting buddies (who never showed), and left after about an hour, because I was anxious about the van and whether it would get back home.
It did climb the mountain side out of Bisbee but it seemed to need a lot more pedal depression. Maybe on the steep climb it would have needed it normally anyway. There was one time on the highway, and fairly level, it felt like it was losing power again, closer to Tombstone than Bisbee, but depressing the pedal more brought it back up to speed.

I stopped in Tombstone, 25 miles from Bisbee, for a couple of hours, then again at St. David, 17 miles from Tombstone, for another hour or so, then a quick stop in Benson then home. I suppose that was dumb because I do not know if it would have happened again at about that mileage--77 miles distance. It started well each time, and there was no speed problem the 40 miles on I-10 from Benson to home.

If it makes a difference, I zero'ed the mileage counter before leaving home. At Bisbee, it should have said about 87.5, but it was at 56.3. I zeroed it again before leaving Bisbee, and it was at 66.5 when I got home. Again, it should have read about 87+.

What might be causing that problem?
Is the odometer related to the gas/speed problem?
Is it compression of some kind?
or what?
Do I need to take this back to my mechanic, or is it now time to take it to the dealer?

Sure would appreciate some guidance on this. Thanks

Almost There · Aug 13, 2015

First thing all the mechanics on here are going to ask is what size engine you have!

Ella1 · Aug 13, 2015

4.3L CPI V6 engine

Meant to say mileage counter in first post, not odometer re the gas/speed question.

SternWake · Aug 13, 2015

The fact that they replaced not only the fuel pump, but the fuel pump relay tells me they were just generally suspicious of the whole fuel delivery system.

If it is acting up in the same manner as before replacement, then these replaced parts were not the cause of the original issue, and the issue likely the fuel pump circuit. A bad wire or a bad connection that gets so hot after exactly 77 miles

, that voltage to the fuel pump is not enough for it to make the required PSI to run the injectors properly.

There are actually 2 fuel filters, one sock like device that mounts to the pump intake itself and another one inline somewhere. If the tank has a lot of debris in it, then the sock at the fuel pump can become clogged and cause low pressure and overheating of the pump. Cleaning out a fuel tank is no fun and toxic and the contaminated gas not easy to safely get rid of, so many parts replacers choose to not shine a flashlight in a gas tank and check for debris.

Lots of better mechanics on this forum than myself, wait for their input.

There are lots of reports of aftermarket fuel pumps being junk too. My friend has a '98 astro and its fuel pump is LOUD. When my fuel pump was that loud it died a week later, but his has been this loud for 4 years now.

MikeRuth · Aug 13, 2015

Just want to toss my 2cents in here,

The mileage error concerns me and may very well be tied to what your describing in performance issues.
I'd say first thing is lay out a route that you know the mileage of for sure. say 5 to 10 miles. Zero it out and see what you get. If that's still reporting off then I'd say that should be the first thing to figure out. Possibly something as simple as a speed sensor.

I'm not sure how complex a 95 drive train is compared to late model cars, but speed, gear selection and rpm are all values that the engines computer are monitoring and adjusting for.

ramblingvanman · Aug 13, 2015

Hello, first question: Check Engine light on or off? Did it come on with the lack of power at all?
Second question: Does Arizona require emission inspections and if so have you had one recently? If so, do you have a copy of the 4 or 5 gas results?
If there is no check engine light on, I would check for a partially clogged catalytic converter first.
If the CEL is on, please provide the codes.

Generally the 4.3 is a very good motor.

Edit to add: Did they use a Fram fuel filter?

ramblingvanman · Aug 13, 2015

MikeRuth said:
Just want to toss my 2cents in here,

The mileage error concerns me and may very well be tied to what your describing in performance issues.
I'd say first thing is lay out a route that you know the mileage of for sure. say 5 to 10 miles. Zero it out and see what you get. If that's still reporting off then I'd say that should be the first thing to figure out. Possibly something as simple as a speed sensor.

I'm not sure how complex a 95 drive train is compared to late model cars, but speed, gear selection and rpm are all values that the engines computer are monitoring and adjusting for.

Certainly, the VSS(vehicle speed sensor) could be the problem, and it could cause you transmission not to shift correctly among other things. We really need more information.

Ella1 · Aug 13, 2015

The fact that they replaced not only the fuel pump, but the fuel pump relay tells me they were just generally suspicious of the whole fuel delivery system.

Yes, my mechanic said that everything I told them points to the fuel system. It was towed in from Benson Tues Aug 4, because it died. It died outside of Benson, after it refused to start numerous times. The driver said it sounded like fuel pump. I had the same problem a bit over a year ago, and it was the fuel pump. This pump is the third new one in three years. The manager said this was a good quality pump. They also replaced the filter and relay switch on Aug 4, 2015.

If it is acting up in the same manner as before replacement, then these replaced parts were not the cause of the original issue, and the issue likely the fuel pump circuit. A bad wire or a bad connection that gets so hot after exactly 77 miles, that voltage to the fuel pump is not enough for it to make the required PSI to run the injectors properly.

Yesterday was the first time I drove it since getting it back last Friday. It seems to be starting better, behaving better than previously, even sounds better so those were probably part of the problem, the relay switch, anyway, as that had not been replaced. In May 2015 I took a 900 mile long trip, and it seemed to develop problems at about 177 miles, not all, but several times.

There are actually 2 fuel filters, one sock like device that mounts to the pump intake itself and another one inline somewhere. If the tank has a lot of debris in it, then the sock at the fuel pump can become clogged...

I've had a locking gas cap for several years. I think I generally lock it each time after adding gas. I guess it could be debris from a dirty holding tank at the gas station.

There are lots of reports of aftermarket fuel pumps being junk too. My friend has a '98 astro and its fuel pump is LOUD. When my fuel pump was that loud it died a week later, but his has been this loud for 4 years now.
That's interesting. At one point on the way back, I think it was on I-10 (I don't remember for sure where) something got really loud for a couple of minutes, with vibration. I thought my front tire had a problem, but then it quit. AND, come to think of it, before it lost power after the road construction (where we had to wait for the pilot truck) , there was a burning odor for several seconds, which was enough to smell then the odor disappeared. Never did smell it again. I thought it was probably a construction odor of some kind.

Canine · Aug 13, 2015

Would a bad cat cause these problems? You're not OBDII, so check to see how hot it is. If that is the problem, it is so bad that it likely would glow red at night.

Ella1 · Aug 13, 2015

MikeRuth said:
Just want to toss my 2cents in here,

The mileage error concerns me and may very well be tied to what your describing in performance issues.
I'd say first thing is lay out a route that you know the mileage of for sure. say 5 to 10 miles. Zero it out and see what you get. If that's still reporting off then I'd say that should be the first thing to figure out. Possibly something as simple as a speed sensor.

I'm not sure how complex a 95 drive train is compared to late model cars, but speed, gear selection and rpm are all values that the engines computer are monitoring and adjusting for.

I'll see if I can find a marked area.

Ella1 · Aug 13, 2015

ramblingvanman said:
Hello, first question: Check Engine light on or off? Did it come on with the lack of power at all?
Second question: Does Arizona require emission inspections and if so have you had one recently? If so, do you have a copy of the 4 or 5 gas results?
If there is no check engine light on, I would check for a partially clogged catalytic converter first.
If the CEL is on, please provide the codes.

Generally the 4.3 is a very good motor.

Edit to add: Did they use a Fram fuel filter?

No, and I was watching for lights. I did not see it at any time. (That just means I did not see it. I don't think it did—no lights did that I saw.

Yes, AZ does require emission inspections. My last one was in January 2015. Apparently it didn't get filed, I don't have it at hand.

I don't know what filter they used.

Ella1 · Aug 13, 2015

ramblingvanman said:
Certainly, the VSS(vehicle speed sensor) could be the problem, and it could cause you transmission not to shift correctly among other things. We really need more information.

I wonder if that was the problem (re the loss of power) going towards Bisbee.
Both leaving Bisbee (uphill) , and entering, then leaving Benson, it felt as if the shifting was off, esp getting to the light at Ocitillo Drive and then the light at Walmart, I had the green light so didn't have to stop or slow, then again starting on the hill to the interstate. But it's an automatic. Benson is relatively flat.

Ella1 · Aug 13, 2015

Canine said:
Would a bad cat cause these problems? You're not OBDII, so check to see how hot it is. If that is the problem, it is so bad that it likely would glow red at night.

What is OBDII? What, and where does someone check that temperature?What would glow?

ramblingvanman · Aug 13, 2015

Ella1 said:
What is OBDII? What, and where does someone check that temperature?What would glow?

On Board Diagnostics = OBD. OBD2 is when the government forced all manufacturers to standardize their systems. They all went to standardized codes with the DLC(diagnostic link connector) in basically the same position with the same type of connector. More functionality was also added to the system.

The catalytic converter would glow cherry red if it got hot enough. That could happen if the exhaust was too rich and the cat was plugged with the extra carbon.

Ella1 · Aug 13, 2015

I've sent the information and your thoughts to my mechanic--I've been with them for five years. Their mechanics are pretty good. I hope this will help them figure this out. I had planned to camp at least overnight, but...
Thank you all for your thoughts. I'll keep you posted. No long trips for me until I can trust the van.

highdesertranger · Aug 13, 2015

was your fuel pump DOA when you had it towed? did your mechanic check the fuel pressure before replacing the pump and filter? or did he just willy nilly replace the pump and filter. did they check the fuel pressure after the new pump and filter was installed? does your check engine light work? when you turn your key to the on position without starting the van the check engine light should light up, does it? have they checked for codes? not all codes light the check light up. you have to remember that it's very hard to diagnose problems over the internet. I would start asking your mechanic more detailed questions. highdesertranger

Ella1 · Aug 13, 2015

Thanks, I will ask.
Less than 30 minutes before it died last week, I had a hard time starting it. At each key turn, it would cough then quit. Then, the 4th or 5th time it would almost catch then die. It did that series probably 4 or 5 times the it started. I made it less than 2 miles before, on an incline, it started coughing, spitting and sputtering. It managed to go about another 1/2 mile when it died and refused to start again.

Ella1 · Aug 14, 2015

I talked to the manager. He's thinking transmission or possibly the catalytic converter.
I'll take it in next week and he'll check the transmission fluid, but it was checked mid July and was okay.
He said the catalytic converter could cause the problem I described except the vibration. If it's transmission, he suggested that due to the age of the van that I not go far from home with it.

There's less than 70K miles on it. How likely is it the transmission?

How likely is it contamination in the gas tank?
I really can't afford a new van...

ramblingvanman · Aug 14, 2015

I can't comment on the vibration without actually driving it and feeling it for myself. For all other symptoms listed, the cat fits the bill as a potential cause very well.

highdesertranger · Aug 14, 2015

it's easy to check the cat. but a bad cat doesn't cause vibration. but a bad trans could. however that doesn't explain the not starting after stalling. see how hard it is to diagnose on the web. if he says the cat is bad make sure he gives you the numbers and explain why it's bad. good luck and keep asking questions, that's how you learn. highdesertranger

95 astrovan losing power after ~70 miles

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